Player Features and Ideas Discussion

My point: You think people have fun doing PvE in high sec. I demonstrate one of the best and most widely known examples of people PvEing in high sec purely to gain ISK to influence actions in null sec.

This is a common practice. Plagued by AFK cloakers? Can't defend your space? Don't want to buy upgrades? Screw it, high sec will give you everything for a nominal cut in payout, may as well PvE there.


Have you seen how proud CCP are of their player retention rates? Now... have you seen Eve's character distribution by average character skill points?

Guess what, those long-standing members of the Eve community are not in high sec. So you think it's a good idea for CCP to "force players to look for a new game", in order to cater to a theme park MMO crowd that barely stay long enough to get a toon past 5 million SP?

Look at all the other themepark MMOs on the market, they have a massive subscription base for a few years, then they die. Eve has survived so long because it has a die hard loyal fan base. Those die hard loyal fans are in null sec. Go figure.


Interpreted incorrectly.

And guess what, it's a sand box. PvP and PvE are intertwined. People PvE to fund PvP and people PvP to be able to PvE. High sec, with the current state of NPC alts, war dec evasion and infinite resources, breaks that concept.


The irony of you calling it a pure PvP game while arguing that people have the right to completely avoid PvP is priceless.

And CCP don't embrace themepark MMO game design because there are plenty of other themepark MMO games, and they do not have a reputation as long-lasting games. Eve is a niche product, which is why it's fan base is so loyal. Remove it from it's niche and the loyal fan base leaves, resulting in a short boom of player rates before the game dies.

As for the economy aspect, it's PvP driven. Cater to high sec demands too much and you get mudflation, which has already happened and CCP are desperately trying to combat it with meta0 and drone region changes.

It's interesting that nullsec players who were looking for a new source of income after the anomaly nerf went to highsec missions instead of nullsec or lowsec missions (that pay better and have rewards available that aren't available in highsec).

This does imply that the PvE risk/reward balance for missions is still out of whack.

You showed that people use bots in high sec to farm isk. How exactly is that relevant to people that actually enjoy the PVE the game has to offer? I never claimed every single person in high sec that PVE's enjoys what they are doing, I simply believe that a good chunk of the people (not bots) that spend time in high sec doing PVE activities do so because they enjoy that aspect of the game. No where did payouts, income, or anything else come into the picture since the OP was talking about FORCING people out of high sec by removing resources thus eliminating the players ability to enjoy a specific playstyle. Leaving a viable and thriving high sec does not interfere with people in low and null because the people (not bots) that enjoy high sec PVE will more than likely leave the game before they are forced into low or null for the convenience of those that want to shoot at the PVE players.



Interesting. On one hand you say the long term people have left null to be in high sec but on the other you say they are actually in null and are the die hard fans.
I've seen the numbers CCP puts out but I have a hard time understanding how the number of accounts and subscriptions keeps climbing but the average number of people logged in stays the same. Seems like fuzzy math to me.
I never said it's a good idea to force players to look for a new game, in fact I said the exact opposite. I said improve low sec since the OP suggested changing a good chunk of high into low. Never once did I make any mention of null sec. Nice strawman attempt though.



I agree the two playstyles are intertwined in Eve and I like that concept. Over the past five years or so I've started spending more time on PVP servers and playing in battlegrounds or open areas because I enjoy the thrill of a possible fight. At no point in my posting did I suggest PVP or PVE should be separated. The only change I think should be made is to look at some of the non-combat ships and ensure the pilots have a reasonable chance to take precautions to avoid being easy prey. That's not related to the OP though so I'll get back on track.

Lets see.. I never argued people have the right to completely avoid PVP. Another strawman.
Lots of theme park MMO's are long-lasting games. They don't retain the same level of numbers as they did when they were fresh, but they are still out there today with more subscribers then Eve has in some cases. It's completely possible for Eve to remain a hardcore game while still providing a worthwhile experience for people who like to PVE. First Eve's PVE needs some improvements to AI, adjustments to difficulty, and add some variety, but Eve is a very fun game taken in it's entirety.

As for mudflation... null sec is to blame for the current state of the economy with the isk faucet known as tech moons. I can agree with you on the Meta 0 mods but drone regions are out in null sec if I remember the map correctly. So you can look to null for most of the economic problems, not high.

I'm actually rather amazed at your replies. You link a "article" from one person talking about botting and then from there you create a couple of strawman arguments making up replies to statements that were never made. Then you blame high sec while completely skipping over the fact that null sec is a bigger perpetrator of problems because it fits better with the agenda you are trying to push.

Buff low and null. Make them areas where more people want to go to. Move the population by showing them a carrot and leading them towards new points on the map. At the same time there is no reason not to also provide content and fun for the people that don't care to take the plunge into the harsher side of Eve. That doesn't mean make high sec immune to PVP, it just means offer the players more choices and soon you'll have more players... in all three security areas.

I bet you dark age of camelot has had relatively stable growth for 9 years running too, eh?

Posting in another nerf hi-sec thread.

My original proposal was nothing to do with nerfing hi-sec (or botting for that matter), it was never about what i thought. To be honest my opinion, your opinion is mute. It was about making a mechanism for CPP to decide what they want the ideal dispersion to be, and a way to use the stick/carrot to achieve this goal. As i said the numbers i used are irrelivant. This would be determined by CPP after much data mining and analysis.

So If CPP are happy that they expect 70% of active players to be in hi-sec then they make hi-sec big enough with enough resources (ie moons, station slots, agents, roid, exploration sites etc) to efficently mantain 70% of the active playerbase. After that point PvP competion starts (not pew pew, though some as war dec would probably occur). Then it is up to the players to move (being back up to their full efficiency) or not move (and live with the reduced efficiency). Not everyone has to move but some may prefer to.

So the risk vs reward is not static for each area (ie hi-sec/low-sec/null-sec) it changes with the active playerbase size within that those areas. I have seen a sig that says a clever predator does not kill all its prey. Well the same is true for for the preyed apon, locust swarms have to continually move as they deplete all resources, if they don't move they die. Same thing here.

At the moment CPP have limited influence over where you live, as some of the resource in hi-sec are essentially infinite. Meaning the activities with the inifinte resources, why would you ever go anywhere else.

knowsitall

Such harsh restrictions would encourage me to find a different sandbox.

Carebears will be out of highsec once the idiots are out of nullsec.

Your suggestions will not change anything in a positive way. There are more reasons to remain in high sec than just mining. Low sec is empty for a reason.. it's dangerous by design and because null sec organizations like it that way (no mans land protects them). Moving the masses suddenly into low sec will only create targets until they discover there is not place for them to do what they like and they unsub.

The risks in high sec for miners are about equivalent to the null sec risks for miners. The risks are different in nature but they are there. You can argue that historically the risks have seemed less in high sec.. but that is only because pvpers did not actively target high sec as much in the past and null sec wasn't as tamed... Tamed null sec is nearly void of risks for miners whose main worry is surviving battleship spawns.. easily done with todays guarding ships.

What you are suggesting is making all areas equal and not just equivalent - this will be a boring change. The areas are greatly different the way they are and thank goodness for the variety.

As the first person in this thread to be completely unconstructive i respond and would like to correct you.



How you choose to play Eve is CPPs business. Unless of cause you are in RMT and turned playing Eve into a business.

I'll pass on dying in a fire thank you.


knowsitall