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Podded for the first time

First post
Author
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#61 - 2012-06-22 06:01:53 UTC
David Toviyah wrote:
Unlike “in a multiplayer battle of your generic FPS”* EVE allows you to play this game without ever killing someone and still be successful. Murdering other players is a decision that you make. No one forces you to do so. There are lots of alternatives. Trading, my profession of choice, is one of them. Justify it all you want but in my eyes this is just an asshole move. End of story.

*Although, given classes like the medic even this is not necessarily true.



Without the meaningful choice to be a villain, there's no meaningful choice to be a good guy. In most MMOs being "evil" means not much more than you get slightly cooler looking armour and maybe better offensive magic and worse healing or something.

In EVE, everyone looks the same and gets the same stuff and to be "Evil" you actually have to do evil things.




I prefer the EVE way.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016

Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#62 - 2012-06-22 06:06:08 UTC
David Toviyah wrote:

Oh well, not everyone is a pacifist like me and since EVE allows (if not encourages) such behavior I should indeed not be surprised by it. Looks like it is to be expected to find such scum here. It’s just that I simply did not realize how depraved the pirates and similar human dross in EVE actually are until now. Low lives gonna low life.


You will surely admit that the event had a far greater emotional effect on you than some cut-scene of Generic Scripted Evil Nemesis #316 killing your generic scripted 1-dimensional female e-sidekick or something? Like, you care about what happened in this game way more?

I would hope that, after reflection, you would use that infinitely greater emotional impact to motivate and involve you far more powerfully.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016

Dirk Magnum
Spearhead Endeavors
#63 - 2012-06-22 06:06:32 UTC
David Toviyah wrote:

Now, most of you will think “So what? Welcome to EVE.” and I would agree if not for the fact that I am ... or at least was roleplaying as a capsuleer who, similarly to Amarr royalty, refuses to use cloning technology.

You were just asking for that dumptruck of **** to land on you if you thought it was a good idea to play Eve without clone updates. I mean it's cool that you did, because that is an interesting RP perspective, but losses are inevitable. Never risking pod death seriously limits what you can do in the game.

                      "LIVE FAST DIE." - traditional Minmatar ethos [citation needed]

Celeste Taylor
Ruby Dynasty
#64 - 2012-06-22 07:16:29 UTC
RP is great when it works in the mechanics of the game. Playing a character who does not believe in cloning can be restricting much like playing a character who refuses to talk with characters from other empires. Although this is doable I believe it is harder than playing a "racist" in other MMOs where the sides of good and evil are clearly defined.

There are ways to RP in EVE that excel compared to other MMOs. I for one have never initiated a fight (which might be more me than RP) and have only killed a few non-mission based rats in self defense. Almost every other MMO is experience point based which is gained from killing enemies, making peaceful characters not an option.

If you want to RP or have any weird quirks (fly only frigates, refuse to join player corporations, enjoy stalking other ships, have a habit of giving away all your ISK, etc.) good for you. Just make sure that it doesn't interfere with your enjoyment of the game, and fits your play style. I'm a pacifist who really enjoy clothes shopping which is not possible in most other MMOs.
Ciar Meara
PIE Inc.
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
#65 - 2012-06-22 07:19:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Ciar Meara
David Toviyah wrote:

Is that not exactly what I am doing? Were I a quitter I would not have started this thread and asked for advice.



Don't roleplay something you cannot be, to be a capsuleer you need capsuleer tech it is in inherent connection.

You can't be a fighterpilot and be apposed to alloys, electronics and ejection seats. Well you can but you'd be flying a Albatros. And thus your choices are made.

PS: An Amarr doesn't beg and plead. He orders and commands.

- [img]http://go-dl1.eve-files.com/media/corp/janus/ceosig.jpg[/img] [yellow]English only please. Zymurgist[/yellow]

Effect One
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#66 - 2012-06-22 07:24:48 UTC
Like someone else said I would learn to get your pod away as fast as possible. As soon as you know your ship will pop, click on a warpable object and start spamming the 'Warp to' button on the overview. It is nearly failsafe.

I say nearly because I jumped into a low sec gate camp in a nano'd up Slicer a few days ago and in addition to catching my ship before it hit warp (fair play, didn't see that one coming), they also got my pod despite the aforementioned spam 'warp to' strategy (again, quite impressive, fair play). Essentially, if you see two boosting Orcas on a low sec gate and a sensor boosted/remote sensor boosted Raptor and Devoter combo, there really isn't much point in trying to warp hah! Got them a nice pod mail though.

'This might be internet spaceships, but it's not rocket science to protect yourself and fly with a little common sense' - CCP Falcon

ISD Dosnix
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
#67 - 2012-06-22 08:19:20 UTC
Okay guys, You´ve got two options:
(1) Stop trolling and stay to the Topic
(2) Keep trolling and I´m going to lock this thread

PS: Cleaned it again!

ISD Dosnix

[b]ISD Dosnix Lieutenant Community Communication Liasons (CCL) Interstellar Service Department[/b]

David Toviyah
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#68 - 2012-06-22 08:22:46 UTC
Thanks for the links, Mara.

Corina Jarr wrote:
1) it isn't murder. It cannot be murder because its only pixels and until a government decides that killing pixels is a crime, it cannot by definition be murder.
[...]
3) if playing the game the way it is meant to, especially in that location, makes them an ass, then you need help.
Duuuuh, I obviously wasn’t talking about actual murder but about in-game one. Also, just because certain behaviors are possible in EVE that does not mean that it is “meant to be played” in that way.

Adeleda Adoudel wrote:
If you're less than a month old, you probably don't have 900k sp yet. Therefore didn't lose any sp..
Just saying..
I have about 1,3m SP.

Marcus Ichiro wrote:
Uh, probably not the first to say this but you do realise that the body you start out in is actually a clone? Refusing to use cloning technology whilst being a capsuleer doesn't make sense.
Yes, I know that now :3

Malcanis wrote:
I prefer the EVE way.
Make no mistake, I also appreciate the possibility of acting like that in EVE but that does not mean that I am happy with people actually behaving like that. You know, in the same way that I enjoy having freedom of will but don’t appreciate people abusing it to commit abhorrent crimes.

Malcanis wrote:
I would hope that, after reflection, you would use that infinitely greater emotional impact to motivate and involve you far more powerfully.
We’ll see Smile At the least I feel significantly more composed now than I did yesterday.
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#69 - 2012-06-22 09:16:17 UTC
David Toviyah wrote:
Thanks for the links, Mara.

Corina Jarr wrote:
1) it isn't murder. It cannot be murder because its only pixels and until a government decides that killing pixels is a crime, it cannot by definition be murder.
[...]
3) if playing the game the way it is meant to, especially in that location, makes them an ass, then you need help.
Duuuuh, I obviously wasn’t talking about actual murder but about in-game one. Also, just because certain behaviors are possible in EVE that does not mean that it is “meant to be played” in that way...


The way EVE is "meant" to be played is that the players create content for the other players. There aren't many restrictions above the level of "don't hack the client" and "don't bring real world issues (race politics threats etc) into the game".

Going further back, EVE was created by a bunch of ex-Ultima Online players who were annoyed that UO didn't let them be as mean to other players as they occasionally wanted to be, and who set out specifically to create a "cold, dark, harsh" spaceships game where pretty much anything goes.

That's not to say that you ought to be ruthless and treacherous to your fellow players, but it's factually incorrect to say that it's not intended gameplay if they act that way to you. Scamming, spying, theft, treachery, murder, piracy, propoganda, assassination and all forms of general shennanigans are explicitly and openly game-legal as long as they're within the minimal restrictions I mentioned above. CCP even include activities like these in their advertising.

Now as I said above, this gives you an excellent RP opportunity. By deciding to not take the easy path you get to make your RP really mean something to your gameplay. Instead of just typing "*David Toviyah is a noble guy!" in a chat channel, you get to actually make a real, significant choice to be a noble guy, and that choice will cost you something.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016

Reduvius
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#70 - 2012-06-22 11:16:26 UTC
David Toviyah wrote:
Duuuuh, I obviously wasn’t talking about actual murder but about in-game one. Also, just because certain behaviors are possible in EVE that does not mean that it is “meant to be played” in that way.

The guy who has been in EVE for a month and roleplays as someone who doesn't believe in cloning is telling us how the game is meant to be played. Precious.

David Toviyah
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#71 - 2012-06-22 12:52:38 UTC
Oh, but on the opposite, Reduivus! Corina was the one telling me how the game “is meant to be played” while I just pointed out that there is no one way that EVE “is meant to be played”, especially not using her reasoning.
Sevastian Liao
DreamWeaver Inc.
#72 - 2012-06-22 16:05:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Sevastian Liao
It's true that there's no one "set" way to play EVE. PvP, PvE, trade, industry, scams, they're all what make EVE and what make EVE the game it is.

...Having said that, like others have said being a nice, friendly place isn't the kind of game both the developers and - most - of the population want it to be. You could say that no one ever said that you have to greedily take every last piece of property, and buy more discounted property off desperate players to "win" at Monopoly. Does that make the other person sitting across you at the board a selfish, uncaring, capitalist bastard? If one of your friends makes a pact with you then breaks it when it's convenient for him during a game of Risk, are you going to call him a militaristic fascist pig? You don't, because you:

1) Realize it's a game
2) Realize it's a game that only really lives up to its full potential for fun when played that way
3) Realize that at the end of the day, it's your friend sitting across the board

In EVE:

1) It's easier to forget it's just a game because it's a lot more immersive than a mere board game. Also, your losses are far more far- reaching than a "reset" game
2) A lot of other activities - Mining, trade, industry - in EVE revolve around the incessant ship losses to war, roams, and just random buggery that keep the economy moving, and keep the story going. It's all part of what makes EVE the dynamic, interesting universe it is.
3) It's an internet spaceship game, so it's easier to forget you're dealing with another decent guy who's just playing the game another perfectly legit way. And yes, it's perfectly possible to be an evil character in a game, while being a really decent person IRL.

While there are certainly the few cases of sociopathy around here - as with any community - You'll find that most players, even the supposed evil pirates, can be pretty okay guys if you start talking and get to know them. New Eden is cold and harsh - but you can still see mortal enemies kicking back and having beers together at Fanfest, and that's what makes the community awesome.
Goremageddon Box
Guerrilla Flotilla
#73 - 2012-06-22 16:09:41 UTC
if u rp a certain way and it has a very bad possbile outcome, that is 100% your fault.
Corina Jarr
en Welle Shipping Inc.
#74 - 2012-06-22 17:07:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Corina Jarr
David Toviyah wrote:
Thanks for the links, Mara.

Corina Jarr wrote:
1) it isn't murder. It cannot be murder because its only pixels and until a government decides that killing pixels is a crime, it cannot by definition be murder.
[...]
3) if playing the game the way it is meant to, especially in that location, makes them an ass, then you need help.
Duuuuh, I obviously wasn’t talking about actual murder but about in-game one. Also, just because certain behaviors are possible in EVE that does not mean that it is “meant to be played” in that way.

It still is not murder. Killing a Capsuleer is not murder unless you do it outside of the pod in a way in which they cannot revive into a new clone.

Also it was meant to be played that way (and every way), watch some of the old trailers.
Jafit
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#75 - 2012-06-22 17:09:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Jafit
You know what. I respect the OP's playstyle.

If he wants to roleplay someone who forgoes cloning technology, then that's fine by me. It's more respectable than the people who can be seen bleating self entitled whining because their highsec life of AFK mining in hulks or doing level4 missions in deadspace fit marauders is so unbearably hard... At least this guy is interested in more than just watching the numbers in his wallet go up.

As for the OP's question, why are people in this game so mean, it's simple game theory, the potential rewards for killing a player outweigh the rewards for leaving them alone, because people in this game can be amazingly stupid in how they transport valuable items

A random player in a shuttle passes through your gatecamp, you have the following choices:

If you do not kill the player...

  • ...and he has nothing of value - Nothing gained, nothing lost.
  • ...and he has valuable cargo - You just missed out son! Oh man that Erebus BPO could have been yours!


If you do kill the player...

  • ...and he has nothing of value - Well at least you padded your killboard stats! -={(ΣȽⱡтȝ ₱√₱)}=-xX360NOSCOPEXx
  • ...and he has valuable cargo - Phat loot, killboard stats, bragging rights. hopefully some tears and drama. Winner winner chicken dinner


I'm assuming that negative security rating is irrelevant to people who camp gates in lowsec.

In the case of the pod you won't get loot, so it's a choice between killboardstats and no killboardstats, so why not? Gate camping is boring.

Basically there's no reason not to kill people in nullsec and lowsec.
David Toviyah
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#76 - 2012-06-22 18:38:53 UTC  |  Edited by: David Toviyah
Corina Jarr wrote:
It still is not murder. Killing a Capsuleer is not murder unless you do it outside of the pod in a way in which they cannot revive into a new clone.
The Cambridge Dictionaries (as well as any other ones) disagree:

murder; n; /ˈmɝː.dɚ/
• the crime of intentionally killing a person


Just because someone is “revived” after the murder that does not change the nature of the crime which is the killing of another human being.

Sevastian Liao wrote:
Does that make the other person sitting across you at the board a selfish, uncaring, capitalist bastard? If one of your friends makes a pact with you then breaks it when it's convenient for him during a game of Risk, are you going to call him a militaristic fascist pig?
Regarding the former: In video games where you don’t interact directly but via avatars it certainly makes his character one. Regarding the latter: If we are RPing (which, at least in case of these games, is unlikely but you get the point) then fuck yeah!

Jafit wrote:
I'm assuming that negative security rating is irrelevant to people who camp gates in lowsec.
They had a security rating of -10 so yeah, I think it’s safe to assume that P

Jafit wrote:
Basically there's no reason not to kill people in nullsec and lowsec.
I take it “not ruining someone else’s day” is not reason enough Ugh ?
Aliaksandre
Screaming Hayabusa
Neo-Bushido Movement
#77 - 2012-06-22 18:45:38 UTC
I find EVE, the people in it, the professions they choose to follow, and the immersion it provides more than adequate enough to represent a real environment, thus making RP unnecessary.

I've RPed in other MMOs, but I have never felt I have to here to be immersed.
Corina Jarr
en Welle Shipping Inc.
#78 - 2012-06-22 19:02:33 UTC
David Toviyah wrote:
Corina Jarr wrote:
It still is not murder. Killing a Capsuleer is not murder unless you do it outside of the pod in a way in which they cannot revive into a new clone.
The Cambridge Dictionaries (as well as any other ones) disagree:

murder; n; /ˈmɝː.dɚ/
• the crime of intentionally killing a person


Just because someone is “revived” after the murder that does not change the nature of the crime which is the killing of another human being.

And I'm sure that dictionary totally applies in a galaxy far far away, far far in the future.

Hint: it doesn't.


Find a bit of lore that says killing a capsuleer clone is murder. Otherwise, it ain't.
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#79 - 2012-06-22 19:17:44 UTC
David Toviyah wrote:


Jafit wrote:
Basically there's no reason not to kill people in nullsec and lowsec.
I take it “not ruining someone else’s day” is not reason enough Ugh ?


In no way whatsover.

Once again, there are good and sufficient reasons to kill even the humblest non-friendly ship:

(1) Why not? You never know what he might have in cargo
(2) He could be scouting for a larger hostile force
(3) He could be a cyno alt for a very much larger force
(4) He's trespassing in space you and your alliance mates have worked hard to claim for yourselves
(5) Many people in 0.0 rank themselves by number of kills; why waste an opportunity to increase that rank?
(6) Nothing has happened for a while and they're bored

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016

David Toviyah
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#80 - 2012-06-22 22:35:41 UTC
Corina Jarr wrote:
And I'm sure that dictionary totally applies in a galaxy far far away, far far in the future.

Hint: it doesn't.


Find a bit of lore that says killing a capsuleer clone is murder. Otherwise, it ain't.
So far the people in this thread disagree.