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Go ahead CCP, listen to the people in the "make null virbant again" thread

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Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#261 - 2012-06-22 00:12:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Tyberius Franklin
Simi Kusoni wrote:

Just out of interest, what's wrong with the help channel? If its too busy, do you think splitting players into four racial help channels might help?

I agree with you on not out-right forcing players out though. I'm still going with flagging NPC corp players with a suspect flag if they are over a certain age and flying certain ships, ala 6 month old NPC corp players in marauders or jump freighters.

Can fit it in with some lore mumbo jumbo concerning fears over spies.

A channel split could be potentially helpful, but runs the risk of creating more channels with the same issue. As far as the suspect flag, I assume you are using the term as it was meant in the crimewatch presentations meaning that anyone can engage you at any time as if you had committed a minor offense? If not, please explain.
Alavaria Fera wrote:

Well the help channel is still telling newbies to stay out of low/nullsec because they'll die. NPC corps too, <0.5 is no-no land.

Setting them on a good path.

Some are, some aren't, but consider for a moment the players that are being told this. They are still in NPC corp and have yet to have the support of a good player organization actually providing them with the means to survive, thrive and recover outside of highsec. Their game experience and skills don't provide a suitable fallback, else they wouldn't need to ask the question of if they should go.

This is not a place like GSF where you have a sense of trust and community before the client DL is even complete, making sure you don't fail. Maybe what we need to see is better recruiting tools to put dissenting voices from us highsec carebears in those chats to grab rookies out and into the fray before it's too late.
Simi Kusoni
HelloKittyFanclub
#262 - 2012-06-22 00:40:40 UTC
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
Simi Kusoni wrote:

Just out of interest, what's wrong with the help channel? If its too busy, do you think splitting players into four racial help channels might help?

I agree with you on not out-right forcing players out though. I'm still going with flagging NPC corp players with a suspect flag if they are over a certain age and flying certain ships, ala 6 month old NPC corp players in marauders or jump freighters.

Can fit it in with some lore mumbo jumbo concerning fears over spies.

A channel split could be potentially helpful, but runs the risk of creating more channels with the same issue. As far as the suspect flag, I assume you are using the term as it was meant in the crimewatch presentations meaning that anyone can engage you at any time as if you had committed a minor offense? If not, please explain.

No no, that's exactly what I meant.

Tyberius Franklin wrote:
Maybe what we need to see is better recruiting tools to put dissenting voices from us highsec carebears in those chats to grab rookies out and into the fray before it's too late.

I thoroughly agree with this.

[center]"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings"  -MXZF[/center]
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#263 - 2012-06-22 00:43:29 UTC
Simi Kusoni wrote:
No no, that's exactly what I meant.

Sad
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#264 - 2012-06-22 00:43:42 UTC
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
This is not a place like GSF where you have a sense of trust and community before the client DL is even complete, making sure you don't fail. Maybe what we need to see is better recruiting tools to put dissenting voices from us highsec carebears in those chats to grab rookies out and into the fray before it's too late.

Always coming back to Spy Swarm Federation.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Simi Kusoni
HelloKittyFanclub
#265 - 2012-06-22 00:45:11 UTC
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
Simi Kusoni wrote:
No no, that's exactly what I meant.

Sad

Twisted

[center]"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings"  -MXZF[/center]
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#266 - 2012-06-22 00:48:33 UTC
Alavaria Fera wrote:
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
This is not a place like GSF where you have a sense of trust and community before the client DL is even complete, making sure you don't fail. Maybe what we need to see is better recruiting tools to put dissenting voices from us highsec carebears in those chats to grab rookies out and into the fray before it's too late.

Always coming back to Spy Swarm Federation.

More referring to closed recruitment in general and the difference it makes in the early days of playing the game. GSF is a good example of this. It wasn't meant in a negative fashion.
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#267 - 2012-06-22 00:49:46 UTC
Simi Kusoni wrote:
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
Simi Kusoni wrote:
No no, that's exactly what I meant.

Sad

Twisted

I must confess, if that was done, I'd actually have to put effort into finding a corp.
Delen Ormand
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#268 - 2012-06-22 02:47:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Delen Ormand
Simi Kusoni wrote:
Delen Ormand wrote:
lord xavier wrote:

3: NPC corp should be for the first 30 days of a character. After that force people into a NPC corp that can be wardec'd. To allow character transfers, put characters on transfer into the current NPC corps. Give them 48 hours upon receiving the character to put it into their own corporation before pushing it into a WDable NPC. Kicked from corp? Apply last method.


An NPC corp is not much use for newcomers without having the old-timers as well. I'm still in one and it's amazing how many newcomers we have asking for advice because the help channel is inadequate. There's stuff on evelopedia, but when you're new to the game, sometimes that's all a bit too in-depth and you can't ask evelopedia questions. So unless CCP are going to radically ramp up their new player support, I don't think it's viable to kick people out automatically.

Just out of interest, what's wrong with the help channel? If its too busy, do you think splitting players into four racial help channels might help?



That could help, although the corp chat (at least in CAS's case) provides a lot more support than I think any 'official' help channel could, mainly because of the number of people. There's a kind've culture of helping new people, even though nobody is under any pressure to do so. There's player run combat training and low/null roams and so on, all of which new people are encouraged to join in with. I don't know what the other starter corps are like, but it would take quite a bit of work for an official channel to come close to what CAS offers in terms of help and support.

I'd also side with Alavaria who said the help channel encouraged risk aversion too (ie, avoid low and null).
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#269 - 2012-06-22 02:54:05 UTC
Delen Ormand wrote:
That could help, although the corp chat (at least in CAS's case) provides a lot more support than I think any 'official' help channel could, mainly because of the number of people. There's a kind've culture of helping new people, even though nobody is under any pressure to do so. There's player run combat training and low/null roams and so on, all of which new people are encouraged to join in with. I don't know what the other starter corps are like, but it would take quite a bit of work for an official channel to come close to what CAS offers in terms of help and support.

I'd also side with Alavaria who said the help channel encouraged risk aversion too (ie, avoid low and null).

Well I was chatting with some people in the mining channel recently. Someone had gotten podded in lowsec, and I was fairly surprised. No one told them about the warping out (without bubbles, of course) "trick". Maybe because highsec is so safe you don't worry about being podded...

Of course the "alphaclone noobship" scout is also fairly useful, but one might want another account for that, and it's not a cheap thing to recommend. (My first alt account was to scout, and then things went from there...)
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
Alavaria Fera wrote:
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
This is not a place like GSF where you have a sense of trust and community before the client DL is even complete, making sure you don't fail. Maybe what we need to see is better recruiting tools to put dissenting voices from us highsec carebears in those chats to grab rookies out and into the fray before it's too late.

Always coming back to Spy Swarm Federation.

More referring to closed recruitment in general and the difference it makes in the early days of playing the game. GSF is a good example of this. It wasn't meant in a negative fashion.

Yeah, I know. Usually it's hey look they're breaking the mechanic with too many members (the nameless 9000+ alliances). And people don't wonder about where all the people come from.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Antisocial Malkavian
Antisocial Malkavians
#270 - 2012-06-22 03:57:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Antisocial Malkavian
Funny, CCP makes this hard threatening new rule then doesnt do anything when ppl break it.

Holy 14 PAGES later

Whatever happened to rumor threads will be instaban without review?

Then again if they actually followed through with that threat there wouldnt be any posters here an we'd all go to kugu lol

And, isn't sanity really just a one-trick pony anyway? I mean all you get is one trick, rational thinking, but when you're good and crazy, oooh, oooh, oooh, the sky is the limit.

Mfume Apocal
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#271 - 2012-06-22 06:59:29 UTC
Lord Zim wrote:
Okay, so they're run, then. I haven't heard any indications from CCP's economist (or anyone at CCP for that matter) that L5s are as problematic as f.ex incursions used to be.


If we're going with "economically problematic" the post-Dominion sanctum in every system was about four times as "broken" as incursions at their height. According to CCP's numbers, pre-incursion nerf.
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
#272 - 2012-06-22 07:28:05 UTC
Richard Desturned wrote:
what i don't understand is why hiseccers, who have substantially lower individual overhead than anybody in nullsec, feel entitled to nullsec levels of personal income



I have noted that the null crowd, beholden to the drudgery, are bent on making sure everybody else has to suffer.

BTW I used a wormhole to get past your gank pipeline a few months ago. That's me NOT on your killboard. Have a nice day.


Bring back DEEEEP Space!
Fractals 4Lyfe
Perkone
Caldari State
#273 - 2012-06-22 07:33:42 UTC
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:
Richard Desturned wrote:
what i don't understand is why hiseccers, who have substantially lower individual overhead than anybody in nullsec, feel entitled to nullsec levels of personal income



I have noted that the null crowd, beholden to the drudgery, are bent on making sure everybody else has to suffer.

BTW I used a wormhole to get past your gank pipeline a few months ago. That's me NOT on your killboard. Have a nice day.




Yeeeeeah there's a bit of irony there calling the null crowd beholden to drudgery when the pinnacle of high sec is level 4 missions and mining in a hulk.
Antisocial Malkavian
Antisocial Malkavians
#274 - 2012-06-22 07:39:59 UTC
Fractals 4Lyfe wrote:
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:
Richard Desturned wrote:
what i don't understand is why hiseccers, who have substantially lower individual overhead than anybody in nullsec, feel entitled to nullsec levels of personal income



I have noted that the null crowd, beholden to the drudgery, are bent on making sure everybody else has to suffer.

BTW I used a wormhole to get past your gank pipeline a few months ago. That's me NOT on your killboard. Have a nice day.




Yeeeeeah there's a bit of irony there calling the null crowd beholden to drudgery when the pinnacle of high sec is level 4 missions and mining in a hulk.


Never seen better in 0.0 when Ive been down there. Ratting or mining in a *gasp* HULK

You gotta understand tho; oh wait, Goon, my bad, yes youre right


And, isn't sanity really just a one-trick pony anyway? I mean all you get is one trick, rational thinking, but when you're good and crazy, oooh, oooh, oooh, the sky is the limit.

Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#275 - 2012-06-22 07:43:20 UTC  |  Edited by: ISD Dosnix
Mfume Apocal wrote:
Lord Zim wrote:
Okay, so they're run, then. I haven't heard any indications from CCP's economist (or anyone at CCP for that matter) that L5s are as problematic as f.ex incursions used to be.


If we're going with "economically problematic" the post-Dominion sanctum in every system was about four times as "broken" as incursions at their height. According to CCP's numbers, pre-incursion nerf.

Yes, I know, and that's kind of my point. And because L4s are as profitable as they are, they're setting a very high floor level for rewards for no risk, which means that when the risks are nonzero, the rewards have to scale up accordingly, which means that again, we get "economically problematic" rewards in nullsec.

But oh well, I'm sure we can just keep on fighting in null and *snip* fly L4s in hisec, it seems to work ~just fine~.

Bad word, fixed it for you!
Remember
Quote:
The posting of [...] racially or ethnically offensive is forbidden.

See Forum Rules for further Information

ISD Dosnix

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
#276 - 2012-06-22 07:46:23 UTC
Fractals 4Lyfe wrote:
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:
Richard Desturned wrote:
what i don't understand is why hiseccers, who have substantially lower individual overhead than anybody in nullsec, feel entitled to nullsec levels of personal income



I have noted that the null crowd, beholden to the drudgery, are bent on making sure everybody else has to suffer.

BTW I used a wormhole to get past your gank pipeline a few months ago. That's me NOT on your killboard. Have a nice day.




Yeeeeeah there's a bit of irony there calling the null crowd beholden to drudgery when the pinnacle of high sec is level 4 missions and mining in a hulk.



I must have missed the memo saying that highsec grind or nullsec feudalism was the only way to play.

Bring back DEEEEP Space!
Antisocial Malkavian
Antisocial Malkavians
#277 - 2012-06-22 07:57:26 UTC
Lord Zim wrote:
Mfume Apocal wrote:
Lord Zim wrote:
Okay, so they're run, then. I haven't heard any indications from CCP's economist (or anyone at CCP for that matter) that L5s are as problematic as f.ex incursions used to be.


If we're going with "economically problematic" the post-Dominion sanctum in every system was about four times as "broken" as incursions at their height. According to CCP's numbers, pre-incursion nerf.

Yes, I know, and that's kind of my point. And because L4s are as profitable as they are, they're setting a very high floor level for rewards for no risk, which means that when the risks are nonzero, the rewards have to scale up accordingly, which means that again, we get "economically problematic" rewards in nullsec.

But oh well, I'm sure we can just keep on fighting in null and jewing L4s in hisec, it seems to work ~just fine~.


Theres risk, that nerdguy is running tengugeddon and killing faction ships too right?

And, isn't sanity really just a one-trick pony anyway? I mean all you get is one trick, rational thinking, but when you're good and crazy, oooh, oooh, oooh, the sky is the limit.

Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#278 - 2012-06-22 08:06:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Vaerah Vahrokha
Lord Zim wrote:
Mfume Apocal wrote:
Lord Zim wrote:
Okay, so they're run, then. I haven't heard any indications from CCP's economist (or anyone at CCP for that matter) that L5s are as problematic as f.ex incursions used to be.


If we're going with "economically problematic" the post-Dominion sanctum in every system was about four times as "broken" as incursions at their height. According to CCP's numbers, pre-incursion nerf.

Yes, I know, and that's kind of my point. And because L4s are as profitable as they are, they're setting a very high floor level for rewards for no risk, which means that when the risks are nonzero, the rewards have to scale up accordingly, which means that again, we get "economically problematic" rewards in nullsec.

But oh well, I'm sure we can just keep on fighting in null and jewing L4s in hisec, it seems to work ~just fine~.


No, L4 used to be like that but the latest nerfs have made "normal missioning for the masses" (i.e. not super-min maxed blitzing) down to 40-50M per hour (using faction fit). You can get to like 70M with 2 battleships but then it's 70M / 2 accounts.
You can blitz some missions for more but they are very rare and not in the top played race best basket.

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Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#279 - 2012-06-22 08:56:25 UTC
Antisocial Malkavian wrote:
Theres risk, that nerdguy is running tengugeddon and killing faction ships too right?

I seem to be unable to find a killboard or a record detailing exactly how effective this tengugeddon is, and looking through eve-kill had two tengus killed in hisec in the first 21 pages, and both were rocking >1.5b in mods, so I'm going to go out on a limb and assum they're more ganked for their mods than ganked for flying the wrong hull.

Woo, dangerous.

Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
No, L4 used to be like that but the latest nerfs have made "normal missioning for the masses" (i.e. not super-min maxed blitzing) down to 40-50M per hour. You can get to like 70M with 2 battleships but then it's 70M / 2 accounts.
You can blitz some missions for more but they are very rare and not in the top played race best basket.

Yes, that's 40-50m/hour which is more or less uninterruptible, unlike outside of hisec where it's pretty easy to interrupt.

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat
Talon SilverHawk
Patria o Muerte
#280 - 2012-06-22 09:57:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Talon SilverHawk
Lord Zim wrote:
Mfume Apocal wrote:
Lord Zim wrote:
Okay, so they're run, then. I haven't heard any indications from CCP's economist (or anyone at CCP for that matter) that L5s are as problematic as f.ex incursions used to be.


If we're going with "economically problematic" the post-Dominion sanctum in every system was about four times as "broken" as incursions at their height. According to CCP's numbers, pre-incursion nerf.

Yes, I know, and that's kind of my point. And because L4s are as profitable as they are, they're setting a very high floor level for rewards for no risk, which means that when the risks are nonzero, the rewards have to scale up accordingly, which means that again, we get "economically problematic" rewards in nullsec.

But oh well, I'm sure we can just keep on fighting in null and *snip* fly L4s in hisec, it seems to work ~just fine~.

Bad word, fixed it for you!
Remember
Quote:
The posting of [...] racially or ethnically offensive is forbidden.

See Forum Rules for further Information

ISD Dosnix



I don't get your point you have already been told LVL4s are not that profitable, and how they have already been nerfed to death, either directly or indirectly.

Also had a revelation, you say you have 7 accounts in high. Its all your fault, why dont you and the others in null who have accounts in hi sec move them to nul thus swinging the balance over to 0.0 Lol

Tal