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Capitals and the super conglomerates
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dontbanmebro
Doomheim
#41 - 2012-06-19 12:47:07 UTC
SmilingVagrant wrote:
Cut EHP of supercaps by another 1/4th and then cut the EHP of structures by 1/2 and we may actually get a decent game again.


Won't disagree with any of that.
dontbanmebro
Doomheim
#42 - 2012-06-19 12:47:35 UTC
SmilingVagrant wrote:
BC's already do a good job of this, but carriers and SC's can vomit out an obscene number of drones et al.


Beat me to it.
Istvaan Shogaatsu
Guiding Hand Social Club
#43 - 2012-06-21 00:27:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Istvaan Shogaatsu
Richard Desturned wrote:
Istvaan Shogaatsu wrote:
The only change caps and supercaps need is either a drastic increase in cost of, or difficulty of obtaining, the fuel to move from system to system. Supercapitals should definitely not be as mobile as they presently are, and scraping together the fuel to cross a certain distance should be an investment, not a complete triviality. This also creates fun stuff like friendly titans running out of fuel in enemy space, and daring refuel runs to get them hopping. Also, it results in more of the damned things dying, which is what this game needs most sorely.


I firmly believe that having capitals depend on fuel which is bot-mined to death in hisec is the dumbest thing ever. Any capital, save for a dread, can traverse the entirety of the map with one load of fuel and some extra fuel in the corp hangar. I have several full loads of fuel in my supercarrier's CHA and I can't even remember the last time I had to move isotopes to it.


Imagine if capital fuel was something you had to fight for, hard.

Imagine if launching a major multi-supercap invasion felt more like Normandy - once you commit, you commit everything - and have a mournful letter to the nation pre-written in case it fails.

Imagine having to rush-haul emergency fuel supplies to a fleet that just defeated the enemy, but ran out of fuel to pursue them.

Imagine launching secondary behind-the-line strikes at an over-extended enemy fleet's fuel convoy to pin them down in your space and murder them.

Imagine having supercapitals tied to fuel production centers - so that they cannot travel far without a logistics chain.

Imagine if seizing your opponent's fuel cache meant your fleet could advance twice as far into their space.

Imagine if you could get spies into the fuel convoys, and at a crucial moment in the battle, have them deliver shiploads of exotic dancers instead of the fuel your enemy needs to escape.

God damn, so much would change for the better.
Apolyon I
Shadow of ISW
#44 - 2012-06-21 00:44:51 UTC
Istvaan Shogaatsu wrote:
Richard Desturned wrote:
Istvaan Shogaatsu wrote:
The only change caps and supercaps need is either a drastic increase in cost of, or difficulty of obtaining, the fuel to move from system to system. Supercapitals should definitely not be as mobile as they presently are, and scraping together the fuel to cross a certain distance should be an investment, not a complete triviality. This also creates fun stuff like friendly titans running out of fuel in enemy space, and daring refuel runs to get them hopping. Also, it results in more of the damned things dying, which is what this game needs most sorely.


I firmly believe that having capitals depend on fuel which is bot-mined to death in hisec is the dumbest thing ever. Any capital, save for a dread, can traverse the entirety of the map with one load of fuel and some extra fuel in the corp hangar. I have several full loads of fuel in my supercarrier's CHA and I can't even remember the last time I had to move isotopes to it.


Imagine if capital fuel was something you had to fight for, hard.

Imagine if launching a major multi-supercap invasion felt more like Normandy - once you commit, you commit everything - and have a mournful letter to the nation pre-written in case it fails.

Imagine having to rush-haul emergency fuel supplies to a fleet that just defeated the enemy, but ran out of fuel to pursue them.

Imagine launching secondary behind-the-line strikes at an over-extended enemy fleet's fuel convoy to pin them down in your space and murder them.

Imagine having supercapitals tied to fuel production centers - so that they cannot travel far without a logistics chain.

Imagine if seizing your opponent's fuel cache meant your fleet could advance twice as far into their space.

Imagine if you could get spies into the fuel convoys, and at a crucial moment in the battle, have them deliver shiploads of exotic dancers instead of the fuel your enemy needs to escape.

God damn, so much would change for the better.

sound epic but it's not so easy to deploy your idea
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#45 - 2012-06-21 01:03:28 UTC
Apolyon I wrote:
Istvaan Shogaatsu wrote:
Imagine if capital fuel was something you had to fight for, hard.

Imagine if launching a major multi-supercap invasion felt more like Normandy - once you commit, you commit everything - and have a mournful letter to the nation pre-written in case it fails.

Imagine having to rush-haul emergency fuel supplies to a fleet that just defeated the enemy, but ran out of fuel to pursue them.

Imagine launching secondary behind-the-line strikes at an over-extended enemy fleet's fuel convoy to pin them down in your space and murder them.

Imagine having supercapitals tied to fuel production centers - so that they cannot travel far without a logistics chain.

Imagine if seizing your opponent's fuel cache meant your fleet could advance twice as far into their space.

Imagine if you could get spies into the fuel convoys, and at a crucial moment in the battle, have them deliver shiploads of exotic dancers instead of the fuel your enemy needs to escape.

God damn, so much would change for the better.

sound epic but it's not so easy to deploy your idea

It's like break bridges and delete jump freighters argument.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Istvaan Shogaatsu
Guiding Hand Social Club
#46 - 2012-06-21 01:15:55 UTC
Apolyon I wrote:
sound epic but it's not so easy to deploy your idea


You're right, it isn't - but unless it's done, I think we know where Eve is heading. Attrition is not enough to offset the rate of supercaps being added... and given sufficient time, that process will only multiply in magnitude. If said process is not somehow interrupted, what will Eve look like in two years? In five?
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#47 - 2012-06-21 01:26:29 UTC
Istvaan Shogaatsu wrote:
Apolyon I wrote:
sound epic but it's not so easy to deploy your idea

You're right, it isn't - but unless it's done, I think we know where Eve is heading. Attrition is not enough to offset the rate of supercaps being added... and given sufficient time, that process will only multiply in magnitude. If said process is not somehow interrupted, what will Eve look like in two years? In five?

Supercapitals Online: Normal capitals need not apply, doomsday will reach you automatically.

Hope you insured !

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
dontbanmebro
Doomheim
#48 - 2012-06-21 01:30:51 UTC  |  Edited by: dontbanmebro
I don't want to get too excited, but what we've been seeing from PL and NCDOT looks promising, with the use of capitals to supplement subcap fleets, and then the use of supercapitals as a further supplement; everything working together in its specific role.

I doubt they'd say it's perfect, but it definitely seems to be an enormous improvement over blap titans with a few aoens ownzoning literally everything.
Eternal Error
Doomheim
#49 - 2012-06-21 01:50:16 UTC
I think your proposed changes go a bit too far, but I would definitely agree with a cut of around 25% in supercap EHP, ESPECIALLY if that allowed at least super carriers to dock.
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#50 - 2012-06-21 02:03:42 UTC
Eternal Error wrote:
I think your proposed changes go a bit too far, but I would definitely agree with a cut of around 25% in supercap EHP, ESPECIALLY if that allowed at least super carriers to dock.

Ahaha, that would be revolutionary. But no.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Apo Lyptica
Absolute Order XVIII
Absolute Will
#51 - 2012-06-21 10:04:47 UTC
I like where this is going so far, basically everyone agrees that capital PvP has infact been murdered. The first capital most people see, the carrier, is not an option anymore. But as I stated, carrier down is fairly well balanced. The major balance issue is the dread up. These ships need reconfigured, role's looked at, and the way they are built/fielded looked at.
Apo Lyptica
Absolute Order XVIII
Absolute Will
#52 - 2012-06-22 02:42:10 UTC
Any way we can get CCP to comment on the current status of capitals?
Sega Phoenix
Chicks on Speed
Weapons Of Mass Production.
#53 - 2012-06-22 02:46:41 UTC
1) Remove super capitals
2) Make T2 standard capitals and T2 fittings.
3) Profit
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