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Making nullsec vibrant again

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Richard Desturned
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#361 - 2012-06-20 18:35:20 UTC
Riedle wrote:
After the first JB nerf it was the first time I saw a non-aligned SOV Holding Alliance take some space in my 0.0 neighbourhood.

I don't think it was a coincidence.


1) Do you live in Providence?
2) If not, did they take space that's actually worth the effort?
3) If not, do they still exist?

npc alts have no opinions worth consideration
Innominate
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#362 - 2012-06-20 18:35:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Innominate
Kieron VonDeux wrote:

But hopfully once CCP gets a grasp on the situation, they will realize that that is in fact the problem. That is one thing that is keeping so many people out of Nullsec.

Reducing the range of influence of the larger organizations will allow smallers ones to take hold in far more areas.
Kind of like why you trim the canopy of a large tree in order for smallers ones to grow closer to its base.


You know what's one of the big things keeping smaller groups out of nullsec? Wormholes.

Before wormholes, a small alliance looking to move up in the world would venture to npc 0.0, looking for and jumping on opportunities to take sov. It could be done either politically, or just through force and good luck when an existing alliance collapses. From there it's all up to them to expand and grow.

Wormholes changed things. The groups that previously would have set up as new guys in 0.0 now just move into wormholes where the rewards are far greater and there is less in the way of politics to deal with. Once set up in the wormhole, there is limited chance to grow and no reason to leave the lucrative wormhole for the low value of an entry level spot in 0.0.

It's not that smaller organizations aren't able to move to and build up in 0.0, it's that wormholes are a better destination, sucking up the talent needed by newer organizations looking to move into 0.0.
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#363 - 2012-06-20 18:38:06 UTC
Riedle wrote:
I have spent just about my whole time in 0.0 for what's that worth

No, you haven't.

Riedle wrote:
my suggestion was in nerfing JB's to make force projection more difficult.

It won't.

Riedle wrote:
It would make it more difficult - no question.

Nope.

Riedle wrote:
It would also have other secondary effects of discouraging NAPFESTS

It won't.

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat
Rer Eirikr
The Scope
#364 - 2012-06-20 18:39:15 UTC
Riedle wrote:
And to which I responded that no JB's would still make it more difficult and that I never offered it as the final answer, but it is part of it.

Been GOON RAGE ever since. lol


I do understand where you're coming from, I just think we need to be more comprehensive rather than just factoring "one piece of the puzzle".

Does that make sense?
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#365 - 2012-06-20 18:39:28 UTC
Riedle wrote:
And to which I responded that no JB's would still make it more difficult

Please tell me you still think we're using JBs to ship down supplies with.

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat
Riedle
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#366 - 2012-06-20 18:39:39 UTC
Quote:
1) Do you live in Providence?
NO
Quote:
2) If not, did they take space that's actually worth the effort?
Probably not - Geminate = crappy space
Quote:
3) If not, do they still exist?[
Nope - gone now.
Josef Djugashvilis
#367 - 2012-06-20 18:40:22 UTC
I thought about moving to 0.0 with my corp, but as I do not mine, and cannot use team speak, I would have spent most of my time shooting belt rats or evading the reds.

Also, 0.0 politics bore me rigid.

This is not a signature.
Cameron Cahill
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#368 - 2012-06-20 18:40:46 UTC
Do people not realize we would move fleets with titans if we didn't have jump bridges? The anti-NAP argument is invalid. So are the rest I'm just to lazy to go into details, especially since at least 5 other people already have.
Cameron Cahill
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#369 - 2012-06-20 18:42:13 UTC
Riedle wrote:
Quote:
1) Do you live in Providence?
NO
Quote:
2) If not, did they take space that's actually worth the effort?
Probably not - Geminate = crappy space
Quote:
3) If not, do they still exist?[
Nope - gone now.


So 'non-aligned' reads 'renting'.
Riedle
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#370 - 2012-06-20 18:42:33 UTC
Quote:
I have spent just about my whole time in 0.0 for what's that worth
No, you haven't.


??? Uhh, yes, yes I have.

Quote:
my suggestion was in nerfing JB's to make force projection more difficult.
It won't.


Yes, you're correct - clearly JB's are worthless. (??)

Quote:
It would make it more difficult - no question.
Nope.


Did you ever ask yourself why your panties are in such a state at the mere suggestion of it then? lol

Quote:
It would also have other secondary effects of discouraging NAPFESTS
It won't.


Oh, ok lol
Kieron VonDeux
#371 - 2012-06-20 18:43:07 UTC
Malphilos wrote:
: I think it's force projection, as in logistics and forward basing.

Stuff that no one would ever use JBs for.


Actually, force projection or "power projection" is how far from ones home teritority can one conduct effective military operations, or the thread of such military operations. All the things that get forces from home to combat effect this.

In Eve, you can use a JB to get your combat ships from dispersed rear areas to a forward assembly area far safer than gate travel alone; which will directly affect how far and effective your org can project power around it as previously shown in this thread.
Riedle
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#372 - 2012-06-20 18:43:58 UTC
Rer Eirikr wrote:
Riedle wrote:
And to which I responded that no JB's would still make it more difficult and that I never offered it as the final answer, but it is part of it.

Been GOON RAGE ever since. lol


I do understand where you're coming from, I just think we need to be more comprehensive rather than just factoring "one piece of the puzzle".

Does that make sense?



Yes and I agree with it. If you care to look back I never said nering/getting rid of jb's was the final solution - only a part of it.
Rer Eirikr
The Scope
#373 - 2012-06-20 18:44:48 UTC
Kieron VonDeux wrote:
In Eve, you can use a JB to get your combat ships from dispersed rear areas to a forward assembly area far safer than gate travel alone; which will directly affect how far and effective your org can project power around it as previously shown in this thread.


Along with a myriad of other ways. Seriously, we need to stop treating JBs like they're some isolated form of transportation here people.
Riedle
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#374 - 2012-06-20 18:45:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Riedle
Cameron Cahill wrote:
Riedle wrote:
Quote:
1) Do you live in Providence?
NO
Quote:
2) If not, did they take space that's actually worth the effort?
Probably not - Geminate = crappy space
Quote:
3) If not, do they still exist?[
Nope - gone now.


So 'non-aligned' reads 'renting'.



Nope, they weren't renters. To be fair the blocs were occupied with SOLAR etc etc but still was the first time and they were there for about 3 months. It was encouraging even if they were utterly terrible.
Weaselior
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#375 - 2012-06-20 18:50:02 UTC
Riedle wrote:

look the question was asked and I gave my thoughts on the answer and one of my thoughts on the answer is the nerfing of JB's. There is nothing from the venom spewed my way to make me think that nerfing JB's isn't part of the answer but I never claimed it was the whole answer.

The venom is because nerfing jump bridges won't do any of the things people (like CCP greyscale) think nerfing them will do. Suggesting it betrays a deep lack of understanding of how projecting power in EVE works.

What it does do is make doing basic routine stuff in 0.0 more of a pain in the ass. All of our stations are spread out, so we have to travel a lot more to do the same thing. It doesn't actually affect "the blob", power projection, or logistics, all of which are done through other means. What it does affect is when you want to get from point A to point B for a boring, routine thing and want it to take 3 minutes instead of 10.

Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Pubbie Management and Exploitation Division.
Kieron VonDeux
#376 - 2012-06-20 18:52:43 UTC
Rer Eirikr wrote:
Kieron VonDeux wrote:
In Eve, you can use a JB to get your combat ships from dispersed rear areas to a forward assembly area far safer than gate travel alone; which will directly affect how far and effective your org can project power around it as previously shown in this thread.


Along with a myriad of other ways. Seriously, we need to stop treating JBs like they're some isolated form of transportation here people.



You are right, they are part of the problem but not the whole problem.
Josef Djugashvilis
#377 - 2012-06-20 18:53:39 UTC
masternerdguy wrote:
Tyberius Franklin wrote:

As low already has lvl 4's, where is the carrot in this?


L4 Missions removed from hi - stick
More L4 Mission agents added to lo - carrot

Its a zero sum transaction.


Once again I will go through this asinine idea for the benefit of Masternerd.

I will quite happily do level 4 missions in lo-sec, with the proviso that I am not attacked by one or more pvp fitted ships.

It is better to do Level 3 missions and complete them, than to die attempting level 4 missions to pvp fitted gangs in lo-sec.

Why do folk like Nerdmasterguy just not seem to understand this?

This is not a signature.
Riedle
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#378 - 2012-06-20 18:56:58 UTC
Weaselior wrote:
Riedle wrote:

look the question was asked and I gave my thoughts on the answer and one of my thoughts on the answer is the nerfing of JB's. There is nothing from the venom spewed my way to make me think that nerfing JB's isn't part of the answer but I never claimed it was the whole answer.

The venom is because nerfing jump bridges won't do any of the things people (like CCP greyscale) think nerfing them will do. Suggesting it betrays a deep lack of understanding of how projecting power in EVE works.

What it does do is make doing basic routine stuff in 0.0 more of a pain in the ass. All of our stations are spread out, so we have to travel a lot more to do the same thing. It doesn't actually affect "the blob", power projection, or logistics, all of which are done through other means. What it does affect is when you want to get from point A to point B for a boring, routine thing and want it to take 3 minutes instead of 10.


And if a small gang was harassing one of your stations now you can just go through a jump bridge and you can have a 10-1 advantage in about 3 mins. Without JB's that would take you much longer thus forcing each station to be somewhat self sufficient and be able to fend off small roaming gangs themselves.

Not all PVP in null is about SOV or POS bashing. Maybe that's why you guys are having a hard time understanding the jump bridge aspect of my argument.
Malphilos
State War Academy
Caldari State
#379 - 2012-06-20 18:57:14 UTC
Weaselior wrote:
All of our stations are spread out, so we have to travel a lot more to do the same thing.It doesn't actually affect "the blob", power projection, or logistics, all of which are done through other means. What it does affect is when you want to get from point A to point B for a boring, routine thing and want it to take 3 minutes instead of 10.


There are some interesting definitions being used here.
Oisin Sandovar
Don't Die Interstellar Enterprises
#380 - 2012-06-20 18:57:36 UTC
Josef Djugashvilis wrote:
Why do folk like Nerdmasterguy just not seem to understand this?

I think to yank your chain. This is why I ignore him and those like him on the forum, but don't tell him that. Blink

"And the only people I fear are those who never have doubts", Billy Joel, Shades of Grey