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exactly what are we salvaging?

Author
Morganta
The Greater Goon
#21 - 2012-06-19 14:37:26 UTC
I'm actually somewhat impressed in the loot drops

instead of reprocessing t1 just for trit now I reprocess compressed chunks of trit

and I was pretty amazed when I was grinding a new agent's lvl 2 missions, I actually got a generic mission drop with an implant and another generic mission that dropped 2 hardwirings

I don't recall getting as much shiny stuff in low level mission drops before.
Savage Angel
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#22 - 2012-06-19 14:46:00 UTC
Salvage a sleeper site or two. Then you will know what salvaging is really about.
MadMuppet
Critical Mass Inc
#23 - 2012-06-19 16:22:56 UTC  |  Edited by: MadMuppet
draft mode fail.

This message brought to you by Experience(tm). When common sense fails you, experience will come to the rescue. Experience(tm) from the makers of CONCORD.

"If you are part of the problem, you will be nerfed." -MadMuppet

MadMuppet
Critical Mass Inc
#24 - 2012-06-19 16:23:11 UTC
Opodiphthera Eucalypti Lepdoptera wrote:
MadMuppet wrote:
Got 2/3rds of the way through the SOE arc in a destroyer the other day and had not come close to filling up the cargo hold in it with the mission drops. Took the cargo expanders off the Noctis because you don't fill the base hold on a level 4 anymore. The new UI is annoying as hell and forces a different method of salvaging which requires more mouse work and kills looting on the fly.

It is CCPs game, they make the rules, they make the choices. I wish they would allow for more flexibility, but the one-size fits all routine of removing functionality and variety is killing the game.

This talk is a good example of what I am refering to in terms of choice. If you are of a short attention span, just to about 16:25

http://www.ted.com/talks/malcolm_gladwell_on_spaghetti_sauce.html

TLDR: Looting and Salvaging is no longer worth the time. Choice is being removed.

For the 'then leave' crowd. Tomorrow my account runs out. I'll check back in a few months.


If you're saying EvE doesn't allow a diverse play style you're terribly wrong my friend. The fact that CCP changed aspects from a few of those styles doesn't mean they removed diversity. What they are doing in general is fitting the mechanics of the game to the phylosophy of risk = reward. All the diversity of gamestyles is still there.

The new UI changed nothing from salvaging: target wreck, activate salvager. Mission looting is still a choice. Not as rewarding as it used to be but you can still do it and save yourself from buying some modules.

When I started playing the game I liked to loot just to get to know the different modules from the game. Missioning and looting isn't supposed to be a 'profession' IMO. It becomes boring and repetitive with time. And if you're not doing it for fun then you're doing it wrong.


The diversity is there for what you can do, but the reasons to do it and the tools to do it have changed because the diversity in options is gone. I don't salvage and loot the same way as the next guy I guess. While you are correct that 'salvaging' hasn't changed, looting has (hence the comment 'salvaging and looting'). I do both activities at the same time(which seems odd to most people for some reason), sometimes I'm in a Noctis where I am stationary, other times a destroyer where you need to move around, it all depends on the situation.

I am a bit of a jack of all trades. I mine, I mission, I salvage(and loot), I roam low-sec, I do industry, I do research, I fly in FW, etc... I even get the need to control inflation (read other posts of mine, I really do get that part) but what looting and salvaging has turned in to now is hardly worth the effort. As for the 'fun' of it, that is where the UI that was forced on us took it all away. Some people think it is better, some think that it is annoying as hell. For me the constant flipping to the cargo window and having to mouse back and forth all over the screen or be forced to put the cargo windows up by the targeting area is just a pain in the ass.

I'm sure the trolls will have a field day with this. Eve isn't dying, it is just not a game for me right now, maybe it will get better, but I was less disappointed with Incarna.

This message brought to you by Experience(tm). When common sense fails you, experience will come to the rescue. Experience(tm) from the makers of CONCORD.

"If you are part of the problem, you will be nerfed." -MadMuppet

Opodiphthera Eucalypti Lepdoptera
Doomheim
#25 - 2012-06-19 18:06:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Opodiphthera Eucalypti Lepdoptera
MadMuppet wrote:


The diversity is there for what you can do, but the reasons to do it and the tools to do it have changed because the diversity in options is gone. I don't salvage and loot the same way as the next guy I guess. While you are correct that 'salvaging' hasn't changed, looting has (hence the comment 'salvaging and looting'). I do both activities at the same time(which seems odd to most people for some reason), sometimes I'm in a Noctis where I am stationary, other times a destroyer where you need to move around, it all depends on the situation.

I am a bit of a jack of all trades. I mine, I mission, I salvage(and loot), I roam low-sec, I do industry, I do research, I fly in FW, etc... I even get the need to control inflation (read other posts of mine, I really do get that part) but what looting and salvaging has turned in to now is hardly worth the effort. As for the 'fun' of it, that is where the UI that was forced on us took it all away. Some people think it is better, some think that it is annoying as hell. For me the constant flipping to the cargo window and having to mouse back and forth all over the screen or be forced to put the cargo windows up by the targeting area is just a pain in the ass.

I'm sure the trolls will have a field day with this. Eve isn't dying, it is just not a game for me right now, maybe it will get better, but I was less disappointed with Incarna.



Heresy. Point me one positive Incarna feature. Besides CQ, wich I don't even use because IMO its a waste of gfx processor, I don't remember any. Enlighten me.

How is salvaging and looting more difficult? It's weird. The "loot all" button is still there. You only have to drag stuff if you want to sort it out and you had to do that before already. For a Noctis pilot its even easier as you don't have to press the button in a different window... you loot all and it moves to the next opened can automatically. Pull wrecks, salvage, open cans, loot all... where is the difficulty really? Doing it wrong, maybe?
The window don't close by itself. Yeah, that sucks when you're salvaging only one can/wreck. If thats the problem I agree with you, it could be changed.

Now I sincerelly didn't understood your diversity comment. The option is there, you don't choose it because it's not as profitable as it was before so there's no diversity? That doesn't make sense.
Jimmy Gunsmythe
Sebiestor Tribe
#26 - 2012-06-19 23:32:26 UTC
Kimmi Chan wrote:
So don't salvage. No one if forcing you too. Though I would hope that you have at least considered the environment. All that junk floating around in space? You know birds and fish get caught in those Malfunctioning Broken Console Power Circuits - PETA is about to curb stomp some folks.


Considering that Salvaging was (once) considered a profession of sorts, with ninja salvaging being it's black sheep brother, it seems rather counter intuitive to nerf an entire profession into the ground. It boils down to the fact that CCP didn't want to BUFF mining, like it should have. Now the galaxy is inundated with metal scraps. WHY? How does nerfing things into an item that refines into tritanium helping mining at all? It really doesn't. It just silences people who had nothing better to do than whine that others had the same toys that they did. At this point, you might as well just remove all PvE, make it a true PvP game. I'm sure it'll be easier to to tend to, until everyone runs out of isk to play with.

This is the exact reason why I don't go to a auto technician to give me medical treatment. Why CCP is doing that is beyond me.

John Hancock

Kimmi Chan
Tastes Like Purple
#27 - 2012-06-19 23:40:56 UTC
Jimmy Gunsmythe wrote:
Considering that Salvaging was (once) considered a profession of sorts, with ninja salvaging being it's black sheep brother, it seems rather counter intuitive to nerf an entire profession into the ground.


Still is a profession. People still do it. While I know it sounds crazy, they choose to do it. And. what's really crazy is they don't complain about the loot drops or the salvage. I know I don't. That would take time out of starting my next mission, getting more agent reward ISK, more standing with the corp and faction, and bounties. I guess I just don't see it as a nerf.

At any rate, if you don't want to salvage - don't salvage. But please consider the birds and the fish. Big smile

"Grr Kimmi  Nerf Chans!" ~Jenn aSide

www.eve-radio.com  Join Eve Radio channel in game!

ModeratedToSilence
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#28 - 2012-06-19 23:49:57 UTC
Loot =/= Salvage

Loot has been nerfed. Salvage has not.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#29 - 2012-06-20 00:42:44 UTC
Jimmy Gunsmythe wrote:
Considering that Salvaging was (once) considered a profession of sorts, with ninja salvaging being it's black sheep brother, it seems rather counter intuitive to nerf an entire profession into the ground.
Good thing, then, that they've done nothing of the sorts.

They've removed silly sources of minerals and ensured that mining are the profession responsible for the gathering of those minerals. Without this change, no buff to mining would have worked other than to further the reduce the value of their efforts. They are also buffing mining with tiercide.

These buffs to mining have nothing to do with salvaging or ninja salvaging, neither of which have been nerfed in any way (unless you count the introduction of the Noctis, which wasn't so much a nerf as a new kind of competition).

Quote:
How does nerfing things into an item that refines into tritanium helping mining at all?
By ensuring that the amount of minerals that is poured into the economy is much lower and only comes in the form of the mineral most in demand.
Anya Ohaya
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#30 - 2012-06-20 00:45:25 UTC
xxwaynoxx wrote:
So, nothing has changed in the low/null sec salvage? Really?


Low sec is the same as high. I haven't tried null.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#31 - 2012-06-20 00:48:33 UTC
Anya Ohaya wrote:
xxwaynoxx wrote:
So, nothing has changed in the low/null sec salvage? Really?
Low sec is the same as high. I haven't tried null.
To be precise: nothing has changed in salvage anywhere.
Anya Ohaya
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#32 - 2012-06-20 00:55:01 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Anya Ohaya wrote:
xxwaynoxx wrote:
So, nothing has changed in the low/null sec salvage? Really?
Low sec is the same as high. I haven't tried null.
To be precise: nothing has changed in salvage anywhere.


I meant the loot in low has been nerfed, just like high.

(And I don't believe the rumor that meta loot has been increased. The reason meta 4 prices are going down is the new inventory system telling people that they have XX million in loot, which they immediately dump in Jita).

I expect salvage prices might rise a bit, because there will be fewer people looting/salvaging.
Jimmy Gunsmythe
Sebiestor Tribe
#33 - 2012-06-20 03:25:32 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Jimmy Gunsmythe wrote:
Considering that Salvaging was (once) considered a profession of sorts, with ninja salvaging being it's black sheep brother, it seems rather counter intuitive to nerf an entire profession into the ground.
Good thing, then, that they've done nothing of the sorts.

They've removed silly sources of minerals and ensured that mining are the profession responsible for the gathering of those minerals. Without this change, no buff to mining would have worked other than to further the reduce the value of their efforts. They are also buffing mining with tiercide.

These buffs to mining have nothing to do with salvaging or ninja salvaging, neither of which have been nerfed in any way (unless you count the introduction of the Noctis, which wasn't so much a nerf as a new kind of competition).

Quote:
How does nerfing things into an item that refines into tritanium helping mining at all?
By ensuring that the amount of minerals that is poured into the economy is much lower and only comes in the form of the mineral most in demand.


What? They added a source of minerals to salvaging in triplicate, they didn't remove any. Metal scraps were few and far between before, now its ridiculous.

John Hancock

ModeratedToSilence
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#34 - 2012-06-20 03:30:17 UTC
Anya Ohaya wrote:


I expect salvage prices might rise a bit, because there will be fewer people looting/salvaging.



If less people salvage and then salvage prices rise as demand is maintained while supply drops, what happens to the income of the people who keep salvaging?

Oh the problem that initiated this thread is obsolete.
DeMichael Crimson
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#35 - 2012-06-20 03:51:48 UTC
The amount of loot and salvage gained from NPC wrecks has drastically dropped within the past few months. As someone else pointed out, no need to fit up Noctis with Expanded Cargoholds to loot and salvage higher level missions. At least 1/2 to 2/3rds of wrecks in most missions are empty now. Doesn't matter if it's a Frigate or Battleship, most of the wrecks containing loot have 1x Metal Scrap, that's it.

Granted the wrecks with actual loot do contain high meta level items but overall the loot and salvage drop has been hit hard. The players doing level 1 and level 2 missions are feeling the big end of that nerf bat. It has always been common practice to loot and salvage those missions because that's where players get the ISK.

Sometime in the future I wouldn't be surprised at all to see NPC Hauler spawns and Drone Containers holding minerals being removed from the game. Also the option to reprocess modules into minerals. Not to mention changing Mining Lasers and Mining Drones to only work with ORE ships.

All the recent moves, the removal of Rogue Drone loot, removal of Meta 0 item drops, reduction of loot dropped from NPC wrecks, removing the Racial Mining Frigates and Cruisers, adding an ORE Mining Frigate and the so called buff to Mining Barges / Exhumers is basically an attempt to force players into mining ships.

Welcome to the future, either you pay a highly inflated price for minerals from the market or you take your chances in mining ships that have an extremely large Bulls-eye target painted on them.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#36 - 2012-06-20 04:17:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Jimmy Gunsmythe wrote:
What? They added a source of minerals to salvaging in triplicate, they didn't remove any. Metal scraps were few and far between before, now its ridiculous.
Metal scraps contain 501 trit. This is somewhere between a little less and waaaaaay less than the items they replaced.

Compare the those 501 trit with, say, the mineral content of a T1 railgun — a fairly common drop before. That's a reduction of 99.5% counting the trit alone, never mind all the other minerals you'd otherwise get. Or compare it with, say, a medium repper — a 75% reduction in trit being handed out and a 100% reduction in the less common minerals. Hell, compare it to that bloody annoying mining laser I the big bad NPC battleships would come equipped with for some reason — a 71% reduction in minerals (58% just counting the trit). Yes, if you would normally have been given something like a 75mm rail, with its piddling mineral content of 208 trit and 199 pye, you'd now get a bit over twice as much trit as you otherwise would, but in total, only 100 units more minerals, and not of the same mix. You'd have to get over a thousand of those small drop replacements for every 425mm rail replacement (or other large piece of equipment) before you'd have a situation where you now got more minerals out of the loot, and the ratios simply aren't that high.

So no, there is no added minerals from this change. It's a massive reduction in the amount you get from the replaced loot.

…and of course, salvage hasn't been touched at all.
Opodiphthera Eucalypti Lepdoptera
Doomheim
#37 - 2012-06-20 14:04:07 UTC
EvE has some of its game mechanics changed to prevent botting and making overall experience better and people whine.
Don't worry, next patch will bring you Divas some new clothes. Nevermind the new missile effects, we all know what you want is a digital space dollhouse with a safe profession to pay the rent while your real money goes to the wardrobe.
I use to mission sometimes and you know what, it's still as fun as it used to be.

I think I am going to quit this game myself. Not because I was ganked /cry and can't make my ISK safely without having any sort of interaction with other player (in a MMOG ffs). It's because it's communitiy is so full of babies complaining about every little **** its not worth the trouble anymore. All this cry is because people want the game to be more PVE oriented. If everyone plays PVE then it's not different for me than be playing with a bunch of bots. This is massive multiplayer not single player or co-op multiplayer like Diablo. What the ****. Seriously, what the hell does single shard means to you? For me it means a lot.

Want minerals? Go mine. Of course its not safe solo, get into a corp and fleet up with some security, split the profit. This is multiplay. Be creative, stop whining because you used to type 1, 2 to win and now you have to type 1, 2, 3. The game is as good as it was before mechanic-wise.
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