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I am Starting A petition For Eve To make a LINUX Client!
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Katrina Bekers
A Blessed Bean
Pandemic Horde
#81 - 2012-06-14 08:59:22 UTC
Viktor Fyretracker wrote:
How does EVE support OSX? is it somehow emulated or is it using OGL natively?

It's Cider: http://transgaming.com/cider

Which is basically a WINE derived, Windows compatibility layer for MacOS. The original codebase was the same. Transgaming is the company which teamed up with CCP and (thru their now-discontinued Cedega WINE spinoff) provided the original CCP Linux client when the expansion Trinity shipped - end of 2007.

There has never been (and I believe never will) a native OpenGL client. The Windows client is unironically DirectX and both the actual Mac client and the now defunct Linux client are DirectX+WINE libs clients, released in various states of usability.

CCP is historically a Microsoft shop. This may change with Dust and their link with Sony.

But the game client is built around DirectX. I don't think it's trivial to OpenGL'ize it. And for sure it's not a priority for the icelanders. Their Windows client works, their Mac client somehow works, what they'd gain with such a deep codepath change?

<< THE RABBLE BRIGADE >>
Zo Khamez
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#82 - 2012-06-14 16:25:44 UTC
I was just reading an article posted last March in which John Carmack (co-founder of id software, which made the original Wolfenstein 3D, Doom, and Quake 3 gmaes) is quoted for stating that DirectX has now surpassed and is better than OpenGL.

Additionally, I found some articles (still digging through them) that seem to indicate that there is a new driver (Gallium) which supports DirectX10/11 natively on Linux. For the NVIDIA players (such as myself), it seems like the API path would involve EVE + WINE + Gallium3D + Nouveau. I'm currently running the binary nvidia driver and would need to switch over to the open source nouveau driver.
Sal Alo
Pane Panelle e Crocche
#83 - 2012-06-19 06:09:52 UTC
I'd love a native linux client but an insured WINE compatibility will work wonders!
L0krin
Space Nerdz
#84 - 2012-06-19 15:49:49 UTC
I Vote Yes to a Linux Client, right now eve is the only thing keeping me from switching to Linux on my desktop. Everything else I do works in SuSe Linux. I dont really want to have to mess with setting up eve in WINE and installing patches with WINE. The Linux Community is still growing, I hope that CCP sees this thread and realizes that people really do want to play eve on Linux.
Zo Khamez
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#85 - 2012-06-19 19:42:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Zo Khamez
Does anyone have any experience with the Nouveau / Mesa / Gallium 3D drivers? I am considering switches from the closed source binary driver that NVidia provides. I have a GeForce 9500 GT card.

If so, what kind of performance are you getting (CPU usage and FPS)? Would you mind sharing your configuration?

Have you tried running multiple clients? If so, how many have you gotten up to?

I'm getting lower FPS (around 20 or so) and each clients hogs 100% of a core (i.e. 3 clients = 3 cores hogged).
Zwo Zateki
Doomheim
#86 - 2012-06-19 19:49:09 UTC
Zo Khamez wrote:
Does anyone have any experience with the Nouveau / Mesa / Gallium 3D drivers? I am considering switches from the closed source binary driver that NVidia provides. I have a GeForce 9500 GT card.

If so, what kind of performance are you getting (CPU usage and FPS)? Would you mind sharing your configuration?

Have you tried running multiple clients? If so, how many have you gotten up to?

I'm getting lower FPS (around 20 or so) and each clients hogs 100% of a core (i.e. 3 clients = 3 cores hogged).

EVE fails to load textures properly w/ Nouveau. Stick to NVIDIA blob.

http://cvmkr.com/R4JG
Katrina Bekers
A Blessed Bean
Pandemic Horde
#87 - 2012-06-20 08:47:48 UTC
@Zo: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=search&search=gallium&forumID=274

@L0krin: The mythical WINE complexity is just that: a myth. You're free to believe what you want, but I wouldn't be surprised if one day you set aside your laziness and realize just how easy is to have EVE working under WINE if you do everything right. I'm playing EVE since Trinity on a machine that doesn't even have a Windows partition. These days I'm able to multibox two EVE clients and Diablo3 at once with a very satisfactory experience (I wouldn's say "without problems", but YMMV), and just a bit of configuration wisdom gathered in this very forum.

@Sal: suca!

<< THE RABBLE BRIGADE >>
Jai Di
Elite Expeditions
#88 - 2012-06-20 09:23:12 UTC
Katrina Bekers wrote:
@L0krin: The mythical WINE complexity is just that: a myth. You're free to believe what you want, but I wouldn't be surprised if one day you set aside your laziness and realize just how easy is to have EVE working under WINE if you do everything right. I'm playing EVE since Trinity on a machine that doesn't even have a Windows partition. These days I'm able to multibox two EVE clients and Diablo3 at once with a very satisfactory experience (I wouldn's say "without problems", but YMMV), and just a bit of configuration wisdom gathered in this very forum.


While I have had EVE running in Wine since... God knows when... Lately it's become a bigger pain in the arse.

CQ -- while I'm not bothered by it -- either crashes to desktop or has a massive spaz out to the point of having to manually sigkill wine; then with the new launcher, having to switch one or more dll's from native to builtin every time you want to update (I seem to need to do this to a varying amount of dll's depending on what mood the launcher is in), then putting them back again to play is not, to me, running very well.

But I do agree that you *can* not use Windows (I don't have a Windows partition either), just it's not as simple for EVE as it was.
Katrina Bekers
A Blessed Bean
Pandemic Horde
#89 - 2012-06-20 23:08:24 UTC
CQ: not bothering with it since two days after release of Incarna. Sorry if any of you may take offense, but my game happens in space, not in a room.

DLL juggling: I solved once and for all with the program profiles:

1) Launch "winecfg" from any shell.

2) In the "Applications" tab, click "Add Application..."

3) In the text field, type "eve.exe" and click "Open"

4) Notice your eve.exe is added and highlighted, then in the "Libraries" tab, set the overrides to "native,builtin" for msvcr(t|80|90|100).

5) Return to the "Applications" tab, click again on "Add Application..." and this time type "ExeFile.exe", then click "Open"

6) Highlight the new entry, go in the "Libraries" tab, and set the overrides to "builtin,native" for the usual libs.

This way you can launch the launcher, update the launcher, update the client, click play on launcher, run the client directly, etc. without having to change any override ever again.

Six simple, clear steps, done once, and the client behaves exactly as it should. I really don't know what kind of perceived difficulty may it appear to be, once you decide to use a Unix derivative operating system.

<< THE RABBLE BRIGADE >>
Jai Di
Elite Expeditions
#90 - 2012-06-21 09:02:32 UTC
I've not bothered with CQ really either, as I said before. But it's still a feature of the game that doesn't work.

Regarding the DLL switching, I am fully aware of wine application specific overrides; as I said before though, I don't always have to change the same DLL's and sometimes setting them all to native then builtin doesn't help -- adding an entry for the launcher makes no odds as I still have to go into winecfg and mix and match until it works.

What you have to remember is that wine is completely situational; what might work for you, doesn't necessarily work for others.

Also, I wasn't saying it was difficult, merely that it is more of a pain than it used to be.
Seras Victoria Egivand
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#91 - 2012-07-17 02:35:11 UTC
Tarn Kugisa wrote:
If EVE had a Linux Client, I would drop windows save for the occasional Steam Game



steam is comeing to linux lol..

But back on topic.

Eve client nativly sure id love to see it.. No offence Even getting perfect functions though wine still doubles the overhead for a linux machine because of the Direct x function calls that need to be translated to linux function calls. A native client would reduce a ton of system overhead thats being caused because it does have to be interpreted though the wine api layer.

TBH Theres way more linux users now then there was a few years ago. IT would be nice if developers would actually start to support more multi platform enviorments then a single environment. I ran windows for years tinkered with linux Now i run linux exclusively.

The issue isnt so much can ccp do it ya they can do it. Is it frantically viable for them? Without true numbers idk. Even blizzard atm is starting to look more at LInux native clients for future games. The biggest hurtle would be to make the client api Indepenant vs api depenant. Heck even if they just back ported OpenGL as a option in the system would decrease the amount of overhead needed.
FlinchingNinja Kishunuba
Crunchy Crunchy
#92 - 2012-07-17 18:51:20 UTC
Seras Victoria Egivand
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#93 - 2012-07-17 19:49:49 UTC
FlinchingNinja Kishunuba wrote:
http://www.reghardware.com/2012/07/17/valve_to_usher_steam_upon_ubuntu/

bit more ammo :)



god a perfect would would be eve native client

Tf2 linux edition

Portal 1 and 2 linux lol...
Melke
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#94 - 2012-07-19 21:21:06 UTC
It would be more likely to see Dust 514 come to PC, Mac and Linux since it was developed on Unreal Engine 3 using OpenGL before we saw a native Eve Online client. That said, I'm not sure if UE3 supports native linux either. UT3 doesn't have a native clent.

Just testing Eve with Wine would be enough. It runs well enough save for CQ and https with the IGB. For now, I just created 2 shortcuts on my desktop. 1 for the launcher to check updates and the other to actually play.
Seras Victoria Egivand
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#95 - 2012-07-19 21:52:05 UTC
Melke wrote:
It would be more likely to see Dust 514 come to PC, Mac and Linux since it was developed on Unreal Engine 3 using OpenGL before we saw a native Eve Online client. That said, I'm not sure if UE3 supports native linux either. UT3 doesn't have a native clent.

Just testing Eve with Wine would be enough. It runs well enough save for CQ and https with the IGB. For now, I just created 2 shortcuts on my desktop. 1 for the launcher to check updates and the other to actually play.



why just settle for a wine driviitive?


yes it works on wine but the whole point of it would be to get them to actually do something for the linux users. Gtranted they do test and make it compatable with wine... But also in the same token We are paying customers to. Im not bashing them Just would like to see nix users not be treated like the step child that has to use a crutch to do something.
Katrina Bekers
A Blessed Bean
Pandemic Horde
#96 - 2012-07-20 12:35:01 UTC
Seras Victoria Egivand wrote:
why just settle for a wine driviitive?


Because it makes sense, from a business viewpoint (at least, at the moment).

We're not treated like stepchildren. It's unfair to blame the devs if we use our own liberty in an often-backfiring way.

We're being offered a product, and we're free to buy it and use it according to its intended specifications.

We buy it, and then use it in a totally unintended way. Why should the blame be on CCP?

Honestly, I wouldn't complain. Each and every linux user is well aware that he/she's running the client outside supported specs. I don't feel the same entitlement as Seras. I'm free to use it under Windows and receive the support they're packaging with the product. Or I can use it under linux and give up the support. I'm very glad I still have this choice.

<< THE RABBLE BRIGADE >>
Melke
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#97 - 2012-07-20 15:17:35 UTC
Seras Victoria Egivand wrote:
We are paying customers to.


Yes, we are but, when they stopped supporting the linux client it was less than 5% of the population. Partly due to the linux client being a huge pile and not brought up to premium graphics so we went back to wine. That was a few years ago but, why would they rewrite their entire graphics engine for less than 5%? The money doesn't add up. Would it allow native Mac and Linux users to have a more even experience with windows? Heck yeah it would but, unless that population is 30% or more I wouldn't even have it on the table if I were Hilmar.

Do another wrapper like they have on Mac if they have to.

It's becoming easier for it to work in wine out of the box so I'm patient enough to wait. There are devs who read this forum and help when they can with getting it easier to play.
Allan Scott
Knights of the Order
#98 - 2012-07-21 00:10:33 UTC
Buzzy Warstl wrote:
Better if they just treat current Wine releases as a proper version of Windows to support.


I second this vote. It works fine, for a while, then they do something that breaks it. After a week or two someone finally finds a workaround, and it goes back to working fine till the next time CCP gets an itch and scratches it by screwing up wine compatibility.
Marcus Barrick
Union of Protectorates
#99 - 2012-07-21 01:08:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Marcus Barrick
Katrina Bekers wrote:
Seras Victoria Egivand wrote:
why just settle for a wine driviitive?


Because it makes sense, from a business viewpoint (at least, at the moment).

We're not treated like stepchildren. It's unfair to blame the devs if we use our own liberty in an often-backfiring way.

We're being offered a product, and we're free to buy it and use it according to its intended specifications.

We buy it, and then use it in a totally unintended way. Why should the blame be on CCP?

Honestly, I wouldn't complain. Each and every linux user is well aware that he/she's running the client outside supported specs. I don't feel the same entitlement as Seras. I'm free to use it under Windows and receive the support they're packaging with the product. Or I can use it under linux and give up the support. I'm very glad I still have this choice.



I think they didn't mean How it sounded. I think they were Just trying to get CCP to understand that theres more linux users now. Which would make sence. Anyways i dont think the Post was intended as Linux users by CCP is being treated like stepchildren i think when it comes to the linux community as a whole. Thats Just my assumption.

As far as a Native linux client goes... Yes I would love to see one will it happen? I cant say yes 100 percent or no it will never happen. Theres quite a few things in The pipe for the mighty pengun so Who knows.

We got Steam coming to linux
You got The steam client games comeing to linux
More and more developers and Indy developers are supporting more and more Multi platform environments.
You got The Mesa/ Gellium 3d Team being able to implement Direct X into Linux naively and having it be able to run DX applications.

You got the Steam os Down the pipe.

You got the abomination that is windows 8 Coming out Yes i say abomination because it sucks as a desktop os.
(why is this important. ) Because theres a ton of win XP users that are about ready to Have to eather A jump to windows 7 or Windows 8 Or GO Linux if they want to update there OS.

Alot of people are just tired of shelling out 200-300+ dollers for a os that gets outdated and forced to upgrade for some few extra features. Those people are prime linux Targets and MS Mac And Linux know this.


All in all Would i like to see a native Client yes.

Am i happy with the way wine is with it atm Sure it doesn't hurt it.

Will i be mad if i never see one no so long as it remains wine compatible .
Morpheus Mishima
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#100 - 2012-07-28 09:24:35 UTC
Both Valve and Blizzard are now looking into porting all of their products to linux, why? Because of Win8 and MS Store.

IF this happens It wouldn't be that difficult to imagine that even EA games would start to look at moving over NEW games to linux as well. Origin is not much compared to Valves Steam and Blizzards Store.

Valve is a solid bet, Newell hates Win8 and already loves linux. Valve has more than 2500 games in their store. And more coming surely.


CCP should start looking at this seriously. Not only a native linux client, but a whole "games-store" for their portfolio which is probably going to include both EVE Online, World of Darkness AND also Dust 514.