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An Open Letter to Jade Constantine

First post First post
Author
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#41 - 2012-06-19 01:28:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Jade Constantine wrote:
Wardec defense allies are now a "duping exploit" ... just wow.
It's the exact same kind of broken functionality: you are using a mechanism to gain more of something for less than you're supposed to pay for it.

That is the fundamental description of all duping exploits.

For most duping exploits, “something” is an item, and the “pay for it” part is commonly money or other items (or time grinding, for rare drops and the like). In this case, “something” is more war targets, and the “pay for it” part is ISK. It's not a particularly difficult concept to wrap your head around.
Jade Constantine
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
#42 - 2012-06-19 01:28:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Jade Constantine
Freezehunter wrote:


Yes, it IS a duping exploit.




Would you care to show me a link to where CCP ruled defensive wardec allies a duping exploit?

The True Knowledge is that nothing matters that does not matter to you, might does make right and power makes freedom

Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#43 - 2012-06-19 01:30:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Lord Zim
Ah. He's latched on to the word "duping", now. Watch him run that into the ground while completely ignoring the fact that having tons of corps with tons of wars (for free) was the main reason the new changes were initiated.

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat

Hesperus Vanderbeets
The Greater Goon
#44 - 2012-06-19 01:33:24 UTC
This is a man with a vendetta. History has shown us that nothing, not even facts or the law, is capable of stopping such dedicated people.

Jade has stooped as low as using game exploits to satisfy his little mind world. Look, somebody who is quite upset with goons over what he believes to be unfair practices in this game actually cheats. Shameful.
Jade Constantine
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
#45 - 2012-06-19 01:34:24 UTC
Tippia wrote:
In this case, “something” is more war targets, and the “pay for it” part is ISK. It's not a particularly difficult concept to wrap your head around.



I'm not getting more war targets ... the enemy is.

The True Knowledge is that nothing matters that does not matter to you, might does make right and power makes freedom

Jade Constantine
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
#46 - 2012-06-19 01:35:32 UTC
Hesperus Vanderbeets wrote:
This is a man with a vendetta. History has shown us that nothing, not even facts or the law, is capable of stopping such dedicated people.

Jade has stooped as low as using game exploits to satisfy his little mind world. Look, somebody who is quite upset with goons over what he believes to be unfair practices in this game actually cheats. Shameful.



Again would you care to link me to the notification where CCP have ruled defensive allies an exploit?

The True Knowledge is that nothing matters that does not matter to you, might does make right and power makes freedom

RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#47 - 2012-06-19 01:36:08 UTC
Jade Constantine wrote:
Tippia wrote:
In this case, “something” is more war targets, and the “pay for it” part is ISK. It's not a particularly difficult concept to wrap your head around.



I'm not getting more war targets ... the enemy is.



Your allies are getting a bunch of targets for free.

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon

Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#48 - 2012-06-19 01:36:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Lord Zim
Jade Constantine wrote:
I'm not getting more war targets ... the enemy is.

And now we're completely ignoring the fact that while Jade himself might not be "getting more wartargets", he's certainly duping more allies, and the "allies" are certainly duping more wartargets. All for free.

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat

Hesperus Vanderbeets
The Greater Goon
#49 - 2012-06-19 01:38:02 UTC
Jade Constantine wrote:
Hesperus Vanderbeets wrote:
This is a man with a vendetta. History has shown us that nothing, not even facts or the law, is capable of stopping such dedicated people.

Jade has stooped as low as using game exploits to satisfy his little mind world. Look, somebody who is quite upset with goons over what he believes to be unfair practices in this game actually cheats. Shameful.



Again would you care to link me to the notification where CCP have ruled defensive allies an exploit?



You're too afraid to read the rules?

Afraid that if you walk down this path you will be exposed as a user of exploits? This is almost as bad as botting.
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#50 - 2012-06-19 01:38:22 UTC
Jade Constantine wrote:
Again would you care to link me to the notification where CCP have ruled defensive allies an exploit?

I think it was the notification when they came out and said that "unlimited free allies weren't what we intended, so we're changing it".

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat

Jade Constantine
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
#51 - 2012-06-19 01:41:40 UTC
Lord Zim wrote:
Jade Constantine wrote:
I'm not getting more war targets ... the enemy is.

And now we're completely ignoring the fact that while Jade himself might not be "getting more wartargets", he's certainly duping more allies, and the "allies" are certainly duping more wartargets. All for free.



So are you claiming all the many allies we've gained for the goonswarm wardec are duplicates of the same template then? (ie they are all the same corp?)

In any case, this talk of "free" is very un eve like. Going into a wardec with the largest alliance in the game is not free of risk - and thats the currency these things are measured by.

The True Knowledge is that nothing matters that does not matter to you, might does make right and power makes freedom

Jade Constantine
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
#52 - 2012-06-19 01:43:22 UTC
Lord Zim wrote:
Jade Constantine wrote:
Again would you care to link me to the notification where CCP have ruled defensive allies an exploit?

I think it was the notification when they came out and said that "unlimited free allies weren't what we intended, so we're changing it".


So its not an exploit then?

The True Knowledge is that nothing matters that does not matter to you, might does make right and power makes freedom

Lin-Young Borovskova
Doomheim
#53 - 2012-06-19 01:44:22 UTC
Lord Zim wrote:
Jade Constantine wrote:
Again would you care to link me to the notification where CCP have ruled defensive allies an exploit?

I think it was the notification when they came out and said that "unlimited free allies weren't what we intended, so we're changing it".



This but, how much do I care because instead of neutrals/oranges/reds to shoot now some of those have just a red star on them?

Maybe they feel special, I don't know Lol
However in high sec this must be really really really, tremendously greatly awesomely hilarious Lol

brb

Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#54 - 2012-06-19 01:44:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Jade Constantine wrote:
I'm not getting more war targets ... the enemy is.
…and your “clients”. Either way, more than what is paid for. So yes, pretty much exactly the same, functionally speaking, as a duping exploit. Whether you benefit from it or not is utterly irrelevant — being a patsy for an exploit doesn't mean it's not an exploit.

Quote:
Would you care to show me a link to where CCP ruled defensive wardec allies a duping exploit?
Would you care to show me the design document where CCP states that infinite, free wardecs for everyone was the intended functionality of the new wardec system? Because I can point to them demonstrating that it wasn't…

Again, is it really that hard to believe that maybe CCP didn't intend for the new wardec system to enable free, infinite wars for everyone, especially considering that they rather obviously increased the prices to siphon more ISK out of the economy (from both sides)? Is it really so hard to see that they noticed this bug that let people sidestep the intended costs and that they're fixing it?

Quote:
So its not an exploit then?
It's a bug. Exploiting that bug is an exploit. Just because the bug is being fixed doesn't make the exploitation of the bug a non-exploit.
Yonis Kador
KADORCORP
#55 - 2012-06-19 01:52:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Yonis Kador
Before this topic gets locked for lack of content, I just wanted to say I think most reasonable people would agree that forever wars with unlimited allies probably isn't something CCP would intentionally endorse. I also agree that dec costs are a necessary isk sink.

But why exponential costs? Charge each corp/alliance a recurring fee but exponential costs create hardship by design. Exponential costs make it highly unlikely that a group larger than a certain size could ever be assembled. Ever. How is that OK?

YK
Freezehunter
#56 - 2012-06-19 01:53:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Freezehunter
Tippia wrote:
Jade Constantine wrote:
I'm not getting more war targets ... the enemy is.
…and your “clients”. Either way, more than what is paid for. So yes, pretty much exactly the same, functionally speaking, as a duping exploit. Whether you benefit from it or not is utterly irrelevant — being a patsy for an exploit doesn't mean it's not an exploit.

Quote:
Would you care to show me a link to where CCP ruled defensive wardec allies a duping exploit?
Would you care to show me the design document where CCP states that infinite, free wardecs for everyone was the intended functionality of the new wardec system? Because I can point to them demonstrating that it wasn't…

Again, is it really that hard to believe that maybe CCP didn't intend for the new wardec system to enable free, infinite wars for everyone, especially considering that they rather obviously increased the prices to siphon more ISK out of the economy (from both sides)? Is it really so hard to see that they noticed this bug that let people sidestep the intended costs and that they're fixing it?

Quote:
So its not an exploit then?
It's a bug. Exploiting that bug is an exploit. Just because the bug is being fixed doesn't make the exploitation of the bug a non-exploit.


My massive, beautiful sign-off post was deleted apparently, because Jade probably reported it out of butthurt, so I've decided to get back in the saddle instead of leaving the thread permanently like I intended.

Anyway.

Historically, when a developer says something is "not what they intended", they mean it was a mistake, also known as a bug.
When a person or group of people use that mistake/unintended feature/BUG, it is called an exploit.

The only reason Jadey here is not being banned, along with all the directors and CEOs of the corps that abused this mechanic, is because CCP decided they ****** it up by themselves, and they decided to fix it silently and sweep the mistake under the rug.

Geddit?

I guess that what I am trying to say is, stop making so much noise Jadey, or CCP might get sick of your BS and ban you.

I'd know, I just woke up from a 6 month ban myself for ranting in their Fan Fest thread too much, which is understandable, I was a little over the top, and I am sorry.

You should just stop this BS crusade of yours, apologize and redeem yourself before you risk further repercussions.

Inappropriate signature, CCP Phantom.

Hesperus Vanderbeets
The Greater Goon
#57 - 2012-06-19 01:53:30 UTC
Botting is bad, but it does not have the capability to render the entirely of highsec unusable for people with the wrong friends. I'm sure that anybody who encourages the use of this wardec exploit has some other skeletons in their EVE cache... EvilTwistedEvilTwisted
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#58 - 2012-06-19 01:56:09 UTC
Jade Constantine wrote:
So are you claiming all the many allies we've gained for the goonswarm wardec are duplicates of the same template then? (ie they are all the same corp?)

I'd say they're duplicates of the same template, yes. A bunch of people who wardec other corps/alliances in hisec, gank loners and dock up the instant more than 1 of the wardecs show up in local. You and Issler and everybody else who's exploited this hole since it was introduced have gotten these for free, and these awesome PVPers, who are exploiting the same system just as hard to avoid paying money for something, are also getting tons wartargets for free.

Jade Constantine wrote:
In any case, this talk of "free" is very un eve like. Going into a wardec with the largest alliance in the game is not free of risk - and thats the currency these things are measured by.

Ah. The numbers fallacy again. "GSF has OVER NINE THOUSAND, which means that they'll bring OVER NINE THOUSAND to every engagement in hisec over a bad poster."

Let's ignore the fact that "these allies" outnumber "the goonies" well over 10:1, and if we were to get even close to a 5:1 disadvantage, all they'd do is dock up until we went away. Risk. Heh. You're funny.

Jade Constantine wrote:
So its not an exploit then?

Which part of "Unlimited free allies isn't what we designed the system for, so we're changing that" doesn't imply that using it to the fullest exploitative extent isn't "an exploit"?

I'm sure you won't get banned for it, since it's being patched soon enough, but it's still an exploit. CCP Soundwave basically said so himself, right before you basically said he was in on the goon conspiracy.

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat

Marconus Orion
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#59 - 2012-06-19 01:57:07 UTC
I thought a bug is when I go to build a Drake and it gives me a Ferox or something like that?
Jade Constantine
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
#60 - 2012-06-19 02:01:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Jade Constantine
Tippia wrote:
It's a bug. Exploiting that bug is an exploit. Just because the bug is being fixed doesn't make the exploitation of the bug a non-exploit.



So have CCP announced that having defensive allies is a "bug" and anyone clicking "accept" when offered support for zero isk is actually "exploiting" this "bug"?

Or is this just made up stuff ?

You know "rumours"

The True Knowledge is that nothing matters that does not matter to you, might does make right and power makes freedom