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Hellmar and CQ

Author
Socrata
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#1 - 2011-10-06 18:36:55 UTC
Hellmar wrote:

Quote:
The tragedy here is that the team really did build solid technology and great art to support what you can see and did it in way that sets a strong foundation for building out the rest. The fact is, in spite of our missteps, they delivered some of the most amazing interior rendering and character technology in the industry, and their efforts deserve praise. The fact we didn’t leverage their achievement more effectively is my fault.


Despite the negativity towards CQ, I think Hellmar makes an important point: the Eve art team did a really good job with the character technology. It's good art. I happen to enjoy making new avatars. I also agree that Incarna was mostly a PR failure rather than a failure of vision or development. As Hellmar points out, if CQ had been promoted as simply "an optional technology preview that interested players could have experienced," then it's likely it would have been met with considerable praise.
Barakkus
#2 - 2011-10-06 18:41:58 UTC
I'm not so sure they did a good job. It runs poorly, even with a decent video card.

The model and texture quality is no better than most games on the market now, for instance, Mass Effect 2 looks better, Medal Of Honor is about as good, Modern Warfare 2 (and soon to be 3) looks about as good, the original Crysis looks better.

The shaders are all messed up and very inefficient.

Clothing does not behave like clothing, it behaves as if it were a pasted on texture.

The mechanics of movement are very awkward as well as how the camera behaves.

All in all it doesn't live up to the hype really. I have a feeling this is all due to being rushed out though. Hopefully it will get better before the full blown Incarna is released.

http://youtu.be/yytbDZrw1jc

mkint
#3 - 2011-10-06 18:56:38 UTC
I dunno... saying the "character art" is "good" is a stretch. If I had to describe it, I'd call it uninspired and samey. Our characters could have been copy/pasted out of just about any universe, sci fi or otherwise, and looked "normal." Well, except maybe Mass Effect... the characters there have a distinct style, unique to that universe. Like EVE used to have.

Maxim 6. If violence wasn’t your last resort, you failed to resort to enough of it.

Socrata
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#4 - 2011-10-06 19:05:26 UTC
I can't really agree. Consider this pic of my supercilious Caldari girl:

https://image.eveonline.com/Character/91281154_512.jpg

I don't think the style or attitude of the graphics presented in that picture is "uninspired" or "samey". It looks pretty unique and "Eve-ish" to me.
Zenith Intaki
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#5 - 2011-10-06 19:27:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Zenith Intaki
Socrata wrote:
Hellmar wrote:

Quote:
The tragedy here is that the team really did build solid technology and great art to support what you can see and did it in way that sets a strong foundation for building out the rest. The fact is, in spite of our missteps, they delivered some of the most amazing interior rendering and character technology in the industry, and their efforts deserve praise. The fact we didn’t leverage their achievement more effectively is my fault.


Despite the negativity towards CQ, I think Hellmar makes an important point: the Eve art team did a really good job with the character technology. It's good art. I happen to enjoy making new avatars. I also agree that Incarna was mostly a PR failure rather than a failure of vision or development. As Hellmar points out, if CQ had been promoted as simply "an optional technology preview that interested players could have experienced," then it's likely it would have been met with considerable praise.
Sorry but no. We all look like average joes in New York city, any given date and time. No futuristic look and scifi what so ever. And we all are same shaped.
mkint
#6 - 2011-10-06 19:32:18 UTC
Socrata wrote:
I can't really agree. Consider this pic of my supercilious Caldari girl:

https://image.eveonline.com/Character/91281154_512.jpg

I don't think the style or attitude of the graphics presented in that picture is "uninspired" or "samey". It looks pretty unique and "Eve-ish" to me.

You're right... that's totally not Starbuck in the Battlestar Galactica uniform, standing in front of the Comedy Central logo. Absolutely unique.

Maxim 6. If violence wasn’t your last resort, you failed to resort to enough of it.

iNfeck7ed
Strange Basement INC
#7 - 2011-10-06 19:37:55 UTC
*rolls up sleeves* mmk, firstly, stfu, CQ is good. Yes, other things need attention. That's being addressed. All of you who don't like Eve for absolutely everything, go play "that" perfect game out there where you don't act like a whiney biotch.
Socrata
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#8 - 2011-10-06 19:45:26 UTC
It's one thing to ask that an art team produce stylish work that captures the feel of the setting, and quite another to ask that they reinvent the wheel. Mkint: I think you're asking them to do the latter, while I'm arguing that they've accomplished the former.
mkint
#9 - 2011-10-06 19:52:25 UTC
iNfeck7ed wrote:
*rolls up sleeves* mmk, firstly, stfu, CQ is good. Yes, other things need attention. That's being addressed. All of you who don't like Eve for absolutely everything, go play "that" perfect game out there where you don't act like a whiney biotch.

lol... CQ.... "Good"... had to catch my breath there.

Other people will comment on the technology, but hardware-melting doesn't sound "good" to me. Personally, I think corporations use technology to try to cover up a lack of artistic creativity, but forget that most of the best art in the world is 400 years old, and some of the best drawing technique is 10,000 years old (yes, cave painting artists have some of the best line technique in history.) So corporations stifle creativity in an attempt to create a visually monotone universe (has there been a sci fi FPS in the past 20 years that hasn't been based on shades of brown?) because they think a narrow bland focus will sell more product.

Let me just ask you this... where are the culturally flamboyant Gallente clothes? Where are the Amarrian rich golds and reds and religious icons? Minmatar got their tattoos but still lack a lot of that scavangers-in-sace vibe. Caldari has always been bland and boring, so they are the only ones that actually got fully implemented.

Maxim 6. If violence wasn’t your last resort, you failed to resort to enough of it.

Astrid Stjerna
Sebiestor Tribe
#10 - 2011-10-06 20:02:25 UTC
mkint wrote:
[quote=iNfeck7ed]
Let me just ask you this... where are the culturally flamboyant Gallente clothes? Where are the Amarrian rich golds and reds and religious icons? Minmatar got their tattoos but still lack a lot of that scavangers-in-sace vibe. Caldari has always been bland and boring, so they are the only ones that actually got fully implemented.


Let me get this straight:

After the PR debacle that Incarna admittedly was, and a promise that FiS was going to get some love in the Winter Ex, you want them to...what? Do more of the same thing that came off so badly in the first place?

It was, in part, the near-total focus on Incarna features that got us to this point.

What do you want CCP to spend more time on: bug-fixes to FiS, nullsec repair, and the return of ship spinning -- or parachute pants in the NeX?

I can't get rid of my darn signature!  Oh, wait....

mkint
#11 - 2011-10-06 20:07:42 UTC  |  Edited by: mkint
Astrid Stjerna wrote:
mkint wrote:
[quote=iNfeck7ed]
Let me just ask you this... where are the culturally flamboyant Gallente clothes? Where are the Amarrian rich golds and reds and religious icons? Minmatar got their tattoos but still lack a lot of that scavangers-in-sace vibe. Caldari has always been bland and boring, so they are the only ones that actually got fully implemented.


Let me get this straight:

After the PR debacle that Incarna admittedly was, and a promise that FiS was going to get some love in the Winter Ex, you want them to...what? Do more of the same thing that came off so badly in the first place?

It was, in part, the near-total focus on Incarna features that got us to this point.

What do you want CCP to spend more time on: bug-fixes to FiS, nullsec repair, and the return of ship spinning -- or parachute pants in the NeX?

No, I want people to stop calling something that is "bad" "good."

Also, since apparently CCP hired special artists just for clothes that do NOTHING ELSE, yeah, I wouldn't mind if they were actually good at their jobs.

edit: and I'd be pretty upset if returning us back to zero (bringing back the style of the old characters) was done through the wh0re st0re.

Maxim 6. If violence wasn’t your last resort, you failed to resort to enough of it.

Barbelo Valentinian
Strategic Exploration and Development Corp
Silent Company
#12 - 2011-10-06 20:15:01 UTC
As with the spaceships since Trinity, my feeling has always been that CCP do stuff that in and of itself is very well done and looks fantastic, but that the general direction of the art design has been trending away from "idiosyncratic" to "generic" over the years, and that this is bad.

e.g. before Trinity, the differences between the races' ships was really marked. Nowadays, they've all been sort of "Caldarified", made more generic looking, with more and more random window lights to make them look bigger.

Wrt our avatars, while our modern avatars are an astonishing achivement in terms of realism (I think so anyway), the actual art design (with a few exceptions) has tended to "generic move s-f".

Bottom line: loss of mystery and idiosyncracy.

Goofiness is good.
Diomedes Calypso
Aetolian Armada
#13 - 2011-10-06 20:43:12 UTC
I agree with what hilmar and the op said.

Things like the holographic ship selector on the coffee table were pretty inovative and exciting.

My problem, even with the limited things they did release, and a pretty good computer*, what was released was slow.

Perhaps slow by design, it wasn't glitchy, or laggy with bursts. But, almost purposely every action moved at a lacoinic deliberate pace.

In real life , esepecially when doing a task, I jump around my kitchen, swing cabinets open quickly, almost leap back and forth from the fridge...fast like a good checker or bagger at the supermarket.

Lookign at my avatar move, I feel like im in the slow lane at the supermarket... with the bagger carefully examining each item as he gentely puts it in a bag... with the checker putting two hands on each item.. watiting for the bagger to put one item in before he rings up the next.


(a prepackaged gaming computer... not uber by power gamer standards by any means, but the best gaming computer on the floor of bestbuy 6 months ago ... certainly should be something that works well unless products are only aimed at gamers with custome built computers)

.

Dusty Meg
Echelon Research
Goonswarm Federation
#14 - 2011-10-06 20:49:19 UTC
Barakkus wrote:
I'm not so sure they did a good job. It runs poorly, even with a decent video card.

The model and texture quality is no better than most games on the market now, for instance, Mass Effect 2 looks better, Medal Of Honor is about as good, Modern Warfare 2 (and soon to be 3) looks about as good, the original Crysis looks better.

The shaders are all messed up and very inefficient.

Clothing does not behave like clothing, it behaves as if it were a pasted on texture.

The mechanics of movement are very awkward as well as how the camera behaves.

All in all it doesn't live up to the hype really. I have a feeling this is all due to being rushed out though. Hopefully it will get better before the full blown Incarna is released.


I have never had a problem with CQ running two accounts. Ive got a nvidia 460 gtx and a i5. Not even seen much of a difference in temperatures compared to playing any other graphical intense game I play.

Creater of the EVE animated influence map http://www.youtube.com/user/DustMityEVE

Barakkus
#15 - 2011-10-06 20:55:58 UTC
Dusty Meg wrote:
Barakkus wrote:
I'm not so sure they did a good job. It runs poorly, even with a decent video card.

The model and texture quality is no better than most games on the market now, for instance, Mass Effect 2 looks better, Medal Of Honor is about as good, Modern Warfare 2 (and soon to be 3) looks about as good, the original Crysis looks better.

The shaders are all messed up and very inefficient.

Clothing does not behave like clothing, it behaves as if it were a pasted on texture.

The mechanics of movement are very awkward as well as how the camera behaves.

All in all it doesn't live up to the hype really. I have a feeling this is all due to being rushed out though. Hopefully it will get better before the full blown Incarna is released.


I have never had a problem with CQ running two accounts. Ive got a nvidia 460 gtx and a i5. Not even seen much of a difference in temperatures compared to playing any other graphical intense game I play.



I don't have a problem with it either, I get around 30-40fps now that I got a new card, but the performance is still lacking. Regardless of the fact that anything over 60fps isn't really going to be very noticeable, getting below 60fps with a ATI 6750 is pretty bad considering the graphics aren't even that good to begin with. Games with MUCH better quality graphics run much, much smoother...

http://youtu.be/yytbDZrw1jc

Astrid Stjerna
Sebiestor Tribe
#16 - 2011-10-06 23:30:22 UTC
Barakkus wrote:
Dusty Meg wrote:
Barakkus wrote:
I'm not so sure they did a good job. It runs poorly, even with a decent video card.

The model and texture quality is no better than most games on the market now, for instance, Mass Effect 2 looks better, Medal Of Honor is about as good, Modern Warfare 2 (and soon to be 3) looks about as good, the original Crysis looks better.

The shaders are all messed up and very inefficient.

Clothing does not behave like clothing, it behaves as if it were a pasted on texture.

The mechanics of movement are very awkward as well as how the camera behaves.

All in all it doesn't live up to the hype really. I have a feeling this is all due to being rushed out though. Hopefully it will get better before the full blown Incarna is released.


I have never had a problem with CQ running two accounts. Ive got a nvidia 460 gtx and a i5. Not even seen much of a difference in temperatures compared to playing any other graphical intense game I play.



I don't have a problem with it either, I get around 30-40fps now that I got a new card, but the performance is still lacking. Regardless of the fact that anything over 60fps isn't really going to be very noticeable, getting below 60fps with a ATI 6750 is pretty bad considering the graphics aren't even that good to begin with. Games with MUCH better quality graphics run much, much smoother...


With my old card, I actually had some pretty heavy problems with slowdown at higher detail settings in the CQ. When I upgraded my to a DX11-capable ATI card (from an older NVidia DX10), I noticed a dramatic improvement in visual quality and slowdown-- not only can I now run at full settings without seeing so much as a blink of lag, the detail of the ship models far outstrips my previous card.

Colors are visible more crisp, lights are softer and bloom stronger, and none of it creates any visible issues with UI response or overall game speed.

(As an example of what I mean by sharper colors, my LOTRO character wears a blue travelling outfit. On my old card, it was closer in tone to a washed-out purple. With this new card, the color is visibly much more vibrant).

My advice to people experiencing slowdown with the Captain's Quarters is to check if you're running a DX11-capable videocard. As I said above, it made a world of difference for me.

I can't get rid of my darn signature!  Oh, wait....