Player Features and Ideas Discussion

Here is my input on this:

1. ORE ships are not tanks, EHP buffs will fail from the get go - people will simply bring more damage to the table and break this "fix" - what they need is tools to either avoid or run from combat, so:

Put this on EVERY ORE ship
1 utility slot for a cloak (or a tractor or salvager if you like) beside the 1/2/3 turret slots.
4 Mid Slot layout is sufficient, what is lacking is PG and CPU to fit a proper tank.
+2 WCStr on these ships with a 2x Low Slot give a good "run away" option, like the Skiff, this with the "Lock Breaker" module SHOULD give a miner a chance to "Run Away" even if tackled.

T1 mining turrets SHOULD use T1 ammo, and that would be all the "yield buff" any miner would need... Stop Adding minerals to the game and do what makes sense... this plus to yield is earned with skills and the progression is already there... use it.

ORE ships need to do ore, ice AND GAS... so if you want to do it this way...

[Empire/Mining Missions ships]
T1 Light - Next ships after Frigate (Pro) - does ore, used in L1-2 missions (ore) and can do empire mining.
T1 Medium - Mid ship (Ret) - does ore and ice, used in L3 missions (ore and ice) and can do empire mining.
T1 Large - Top Tier (Cov) - does ore, ice and gas used in L4 missions (ore, ice and gas) and can do empire mining.

[Empire/Low/Null ships]
T2 light - Skiff - does mercoxit
T2 Med - does ore and ice (Mack with modifications)
T2 Large - does all three... the final mark of mining - it's a capstone ship, it's a strong solo profitable mining ship for all of the operations... and this should stay that way.

All ships should have a 25,000 or larger ore bay... then people will not use jet-cans... good bye to that IF the ships bay is bigger... then simply make it that jet can't put ore in it like loot cans... done and done, or something like that.

Buff the orca's transport size - from 2x Hulks to more like a squadron of mining barges... it should work as a Hauler of ships to a mining location and not a hauler of ore during an op... that makes no sense since it should be boosting and not moving...

There are a lot of things that can simply be done with ingame working mechanics to make mining work, before you reinvent the wheel or start to make BS-tanking barges... lets look at the real mining deal and what is lacking... it's not EHP...

for the most part I disagree with your post. the way they are doing it is good. you can have a specified tool for mining with good EHP, but it does not have the output of something like a hulk.

as to the quoted part, yes, I agree with this. just the ore bay on it, we don't want it to become the ultra hauler. if you give it more cargohold, then it's affected by rigs and mods meaning you could fit it to haul enormous amounts of things other than ore.
the reason I point this out is that when hauling for an ideal fleet, it would probably be alright, but from experience as a hauler for large mining ops, a ton of miners wait till their cargohold is full to dump even when I ask them to fill the cans.

also, CCP, while you're at it, is it possible for you to modify the options on the orca/rorqual to give them the option to make the ore hold public to your fleet. and possibly also do this on the new ore holds on the barges and exhumers so that the hauler can just grab the ore out of the ships when we can and put it where we have room.

I haven't been playing that long (about 6 months), but my first real training effort was to get myself into a hulk...hence my interest in the coming changes I suppose. Since Hulkageddon in May, I haven't been out in it as there has been too many Hulks popped in our area due to the Goon Squad bounty offer.

I like that CCP constantly rethinks the game balance. Here's my thoughts:

The comparative ease with which Hulks and other large ships tend to pop somewhat defies the application of common sense. The hulk (and covetor) is approximately the same size as a Battlecruiser (500m), and has approximately 3 times the mass, but comes with 1/3 the amount of shield/armor/hull resists. OK, shield and armor will be weaker on an industrial than a battlecruiser, but structure just is what it is. 500m of industrial has got to have essentially the same hull resist as 500m of anything else of comparative weight. More weight would suggest more structure, not less.

This would apply to other large industrials as well, like the Iterons, Badgers and Orcas. Anyone who has ever stood near a D9 or a 777 Caterpillar will get this.

Develop a practical formula for hull hitpoints based on the size and weight of the existing ships. A hulk should have about 12,000 by that formula. That will satisfy the irrational desire for reason in a virtual fiction, and give enough time to warp out, as long as we aren't AFK...lol.

On an aside, the effect of Hulkageddon for me was fairly positive. I trained up my Domi skills and am up to running L4 missions. I've had to give up the AFK mining I used to do while reading and studying, but I've had way more fun and made way more ISK in far less time.

I so would love to find you mining in null solo with noone around. :) I love -3 faction points.. yum.

well, some ehp would be a good start.
right now, mining in a retriever in a system with the smallest belt rats easily can get your ship destroyed. always sad to see the tears of new players getting their retriever blown up by a serpentis initiate or something, just because they had not the time to train some tanky skills and can not warp away fast enough ^^

but a forth high slot for utility like cloak and salvager (maybe a smartbomb too!?)?
aditional warp core strength?
hell no.
the barges are mining ships not an industrial version of a "i win" button


and why are all the hard core miners so afraid of a hulk which isn't the ratio ultima anymore?
it will not get nerfed, the other barges just get more useful and will be valid alternatives, depending on what you want to do.
the yield of the hulk will not change, it won't be squishier than before, may even get a slight buff in fittings and ehp.
the skills you trained for the hulk will also improve the performance of the other barges.
i fail to see why thats such a bad thing.

You all have missed the point of my post:

1. Mining is all three - High/Low/Null - so drop the suicidal defense with oh it will sacrifice this or that... CONCORD is only in High... the profitable ores are in low and null. Keep that in mind.

2. I could care less what ship is "King", I want functional ships that do a job well, and no I don't want a salvager ship, stop being an idiot... the dedicated salvager ships do it better, but the game mechanics of the belt rats and the mining belts themselves lend to:

Mine ore, Shoot Rats, Tractor cans and wrecks, salvage belt rat droppings... repeat... so it makes sense that the bright person would fit a utility slot for either a tractor or a salvager to assist in this.. stop being stupid when it comes to function and how people do things.

3. EHP to structure is a decent idea provided you put on a DCU, then it makes sense to have a buffer tank (such as the Orca), but it still will not do much to "save you" from a dedicated ganker (goons) attack... so that will not fix anything.

4. Barges and Exhumers have no guns... they have drones unless your a fool, and that is about it... you have a shield tank if you are not a mouth-breather and so you can reasonably get about 19K on a hulk with a tank using T2 modules and still have a good yield and then have you mix of hobs and miners... but this is no help at all in low or null... and if you put on say 2x WCS on the ship for "travel mode" you loose ALL the lows... but you have a pretty good chance of getting out if you see them coming (and assuming you are aligned and you have a safe spot and you dropped a strip for a cloak...etc)...

The answer is NOT to have BS-miners, or whatever... this needs to be a creative fix to make mining not just more "Tanky Snooze-Fest" - CCP has the chance here to make something that is interactive and that will lesson BOTS as well since they are not able to "think on the fly" as people... er... ahem... some people do...

Finally anyone that puts Cargo rigs on a barge in place of Shield or cap is totally clueless about the state of mining... go back to your Osprey.