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Since T1 frigs and AF got buffed, destroyers need a look at again.
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Mike Whiite
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#21 - 2012-06-11 07:06:40 UTC
Probably depends on what you are doing in EVE,

But I know Faction War is pakked with Dessies, where before it was Dramiels Daredevils and Hookbills so I guess the Buff wiorked like a charm there.
The VC's
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#22 - 2012-06-11 08:10:31 UTC
Destroyers are fine as they are. If we are talking in 'should's' then imo assault frigs should be able to have a fighting chance against them. And they do, just about. Destroyer's vulnerability keeps them balanced.


Now if you wanna talk about navy faction destroyers............!
Maeltstome
Ten Thousand Days
#23 - 2012-06-11 08:37:35 UTC
The perform best with long range guns due to excellent tracking, range and alpah.

DPS isn't everything - popping half a frigates HP in 1 volley.. that's what they do best.
Parsee789
Immaterial and Missing Power
#24 - 2012-06-11 09:21:30 UTC
I personally think Assault Frigates should die in a fire when going against a well fitted dps destroyer. Just because AF are more expensive should not mean they should be able to easily destroy a ship that's meant to kill frigates.

Destroyers should be able to melt Assault Frigates before AF melt them.
Bouh Revetoile
In Wreck we thrust
#25 - 2012-06-11 09:38:56 UTC
Parsee789 wrote:

Destroyers should be able to melt Assault Frigates before AF melt them.


Destroyers have more firepower, about the same ehp, and a little less mobility for half or third the cost. In fact, the real question is how many more you want...
IIshira
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#26 - 2012-06-11 09:51:16 UTC
Parsee789 wrote:
I personally think Assault Frigates should die in a fire when going against a well fitted dps destroyer. Just because AF are more expensive should not mean they should be able to easily destroy a ship that's meant to kill frigates.

Destroyers should be able to melt Assault Frigates before AF melt them.


That would be nice. The last buffs on Destroyers was focused on DPS. That just made it a better gank ship. Yes DPS also helps kill frigates but unlike a stationery Hulk a frigate will be moving very fast. If you can't hit it all that DPS does nothing.

To make the destroyer a better "anti frigate" ship it has to be better at tracking and slowing down frigates. This is why I said mid slots for webs. Maybe if the mid slots could be used for other than webs to make it OP a better tracking bonus could be added. Other than killing frigates I'm not sure how faster tracking could be used in an unintended way.

On the other hand maybe CCP doesn't want to make the destroyer a Frigate melter. This might discourage people from flying frigates. Everything is a complicated balancing act.
Lin-Young Borovskova
Doomheim
#27 - 2012-06-11 11:52:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Lin-Young Borovskova
Alara IonStorm wrote:
Zarnak Wulf wrote:

Absolutely no to an Assault Destroyer. Horrible idea. It would obsolete so many ships.

Teh what ships wuld it obsolete.

Like Assault Frigates they would not have great speed. They could not take on T1 Cruisers effectively and would be vulnerable to larger ships.

I don't see any ship falling out of use because of Assault Destroyers.


I'd actually agree with previous post to yours just because you know it's quite easy to push 700dps out of a catalyst, a T2 version would just be some sort of "I win" button against everything with a little bit of effort and skill.

Actual Catalyst could use of some more PG and med slot, maybe change 8 guns to 7 and give it an utility slot (NOS), some agility wouldn't be bad too.
However I still think T1 destroyers shouldn't be T2 frigates main predator, they have already the T2 version (Interdictors) that can fit a very decent dps (however lacking of EHP buffer)

Bring all T2 destroyers version to the same level of Sabre would already be a huge buff to all T2 destroyers without making T2 frigates too fragile, we need them on the field but they should not make frigates T1 or T2 undesirable

Just a point of view

EDIT: cormorant T1/T2 and Coercer T/T2 versions are the ones in my opinion in need of huge buffs or at least bring them all at the same level of efficiency than the best on each tech version (imho versatility power Thrasher/Sabre, gank catalyst)

brb
X Gallentius
Black Eagle1
#28 - 2012-06-11 15:33:42 UTC  |  Edited by: X Gallentius
I think the destroyers are really well balanced right now. Frigates with TDs will do well against them in solo situations, but destroyers rule the day as numbers increase.

They are fairly well-balanced as well. Last buff increased both dps and EHP, btw.
Tobiaz
Spacerats
#29 - 2012-06-11 16:57:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Tobiaz
Alara IonStorm wrote:
Marcus Ichiro wrote:

But they do. The whole point of them having limited meds/lows is to keep them in their roles as frigate melters.

They don't need utility, all you need on a destroyer is a full rack of guns, damage mods and a prop mod.

Utility is however not a bad thing.

Both in the close and long range it help boost what is already good about the ship without improving capability against larger vessels. The idea that they are a gang ship is not wrong but solo capability needs to be considered. Gang support shouldn't limit a ship but enhance it and allow utility to move towards other area's such as range, scan res and so forth.

Know what Destroyer has utility, the Thrasher. No which ones are lacking, the rest. The extra slots provide so much more to the Caty, Coercer and Cormie then they do the Thrasher. It is a good buff in lu of the recent announced Frigate changes and future announced ones.

Right now in real combat it is Thrashers all the way down.


Too much utility IS a bad thing. It allows ships to impinge on the roles of other ships.

Destroyers role is supposed to be bringing small-weapon DPS on the field, not tackling. Don't boost the rest of the Destroyers to bring it more in line with the Thrasher, one of the current ships in dire need of a nerf (like perhaps cutting some more EHP as the price for it's versatility)

Operation WRITE DOWN ALL THE THINGS!!!  Check out the list at http://bit.ly/wdatt Collecting and compiling all fixes and ideas for EVE. Looking for more editors!
Kalli Brixzat
#30 - 2012-06-11 17:48:08 UTC
I like the current Destroyer hulls as they currently are. They excel at 2, key roles:

1. Anti-frigate Gunboats also capable of suicide-ganks in swarms.
2. All-purpose utility boats that make excellent ghetto-Noctis salvagers.

I think with these 2 roles, I'll keep a number of Destroyers in my bay for years to come. What I would really like to see is simply more destroyer hulls to chose from. Perhaps one with fewer weapon hardpoints in exchange for more speed. A missile-platform T1 destroyer would also be nice. Maybe even one specifically purposed for salvaging ops.

Otherwise, they don't need a buff...they just need more hulls to chose from. The fact that there is 1 destroyer per race makes them pass-over ships.
Reaver Glitterstim
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#31 - 2012-06-11 18:08:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Reaver Glitterstim
I think perhaps in order to keep destroyers as glass cannons, but make it easier to fit their weapons, they should have their powergrid reduced by 25% and be given a special ability in which turrets cost 50% less powergrid to fit. Already, you can give a destroyer a pretty significant amount of HP buffer and now with the new ancillary shield boosters, you can give them some serious HP regen for a brief time. All you have to do to achieve this is fit smaller weapons, which only takes your dps down 20% at most. Alternatively, you can fit powergrid upgrades and put on the big guns along with big buffer, and then resistance is your only issue.

Kalli Brixzat wrote:
I like the current Destroyer hulls as they currently are. They excel at 2, key roles:

1. Anti-frigate Gunboats also capable of suicide-ganks in swarms.
2. All-purpose utility boats that make excellent ghetto-Noctis salvagers.

I think with these 2 roles, I'll keep a number of Destroyers in my bay for years to come. What I would really like to see is simply more destroyer hulls to chose from. Perhaps one with fewer weapon hardpoints in exchange for more speed. A missile-platform T1 destroyer would also be nice. Maybe even one specifically purposed for salvaging ops.

Otherwise, they don't need a buff...they just need more hulls to chose from. The fact that there is 1 destroyer per race makes them pass-over ships.
If there were a destroyer with 5 weapon points and 8 mid/low slots, I would fly it for level 2 missions. I wouldn't have to worry about killing stuff quickly at a distance and kiting it all, I could actually just fit a close range setup and tank it all. That would be excellent.

FT Diomedes: "Reaver, sometimes I wonder what you are thinking when you sit down to post."

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Major Killz
inglorious bastards.
#32 - 2012-06-11 22:23:44 UTC
Well. I know destroyers shouldn't get another increase in damage or another reduction in signature radius. I'm in favor of a increase in hit points. The Coercer is fine and shouldn't be touched. Same with the Cormorant. Infact all destroyers are great.

One thing that would be helpful without being lame in the long run. Increasing the Cormorant and Catalyst CPU and powerGrid.

[u]Ich bin ein Pirat ！[/u]
Kaikka Carel
Ziea
#33 - 2012-06-12 04:06:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Kaikka Carel
They need a full 6 AU/s warp speed to not hinder the frigate gangs in mobility. Also the hull size makes them a perfect platform for a small logi or utility ships like E-War and drone carriers(give them bonuses to whatever spec drones do rather than just make them dps drone boats).

As for the current dessies I believe a bit more base fitting resources could make them more noob-friendly.
Kalli Brixzat
#34 - 2012-06-13 04:14:12 UTC
Reaver Glitterstim wrote:

Otherwise, they don't need a buff...they just need more hulls to chose from. The fact that there is 1 destroyer per race makes them pass-over ships.
If there were a destroyer with 5 weapon points and 8 mid/low slots, I would fly it for level 2 missions. I wouldn't have to worry about killing stuff quickly at a distance and kiting it all, I could actually just fit a close range setup and tank it all. That would be excellent.[/quote]

I actually think that you 5 hardpoints + 8 total mid/low slots would make the destroyer a bit OP. Fit with 5 long-range turrets + tackle, (minimal) tank and tracking mods. That would virtually obsolete any brawler frigate in the game. So long as I can pick the initial engagement range (~20km), I can pop pretty much any T1 Frig and even most AF's before they ever get close enough to do anything. Even if we start at their point, your dessie is still beefier.

For me, the Destroyer hulls are designed as "sell-out" hulls. They do one thing and one thing only...everything else suffers. For the current iteration, they're gun platforms without much room for tank, prop or utility. My gank thrasher is fitted without a single tank mod most of the time - though I will occasionally fit a plate in a low if called for. Thing is, I like it that way. TBH, I LOVE destroyers. I find them sneakily tough.

As I said, the only true change - other than pure utility (i.e. mini-salvager or logi) - is to put some more speed on a destroyer. A speedy EWAR bird would be sick. I have long imagined a TP Dessie being an amazing addition to any fleet.
Cedo Nulli
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#35 - 2012-06-14 03:32:58 UTC
Parsee789 wrote:


Destroyers should be able to destroy all type of frigates with no trouble. Destroyers are vulnerable to every ship bigger than it, so I believe it is fair that destroyers should be a serious threat to all frigates.



They are allready a serious threat to all frigates ... but dear god man ... what you seem to be asking is an i-win button.

Not counting the stupid slot layouts and somewhat supertight fittings ... they seem to be just fine atm.
Hoarr
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#36 - 2012-06-14 05:25:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Hoarr
Parsee789 wrote:

Mindless Rambling



HAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA. Shhhhhhhhhhhhhhh. Stop, just stop. Dessies are already absurdly good and are rapidly becoming my favorite thing to fly. I can't imagine how preposterously good a catalyst would be with room and CPU to fit point/prop/web. The point of the dessie is that none of them are complete completely rounded ships. They are highly focused ships and you need to make DECISIONS when fitting them.

You're like the newb that flies out in a ship w/ salvager, arty, ac, shield rep, hull rep, armor rep, codebreaker, analyzer, and drone damage mods. NEEDZ TO DO ALL THE THINGS.

Edit: and missiles, can't forget to fit the missiles
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