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Q: What can an ice miner do?

Author
Jorma Morkkis
State War Academy
Caldari State
#61 - 2012-06-14 01:10:31 UTC
Snow Axe wrote:
The only thing to be learned from any of these repeat threads is that any time Jorma Morkkis says anything at all about how things work in Eve Online, he's talking so far out of his ass it's almost remarkable.


https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1471220#post1471220
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1472129#post1472129

Big smile
Corina Jarr
en Welle Shipping Inc.
#62 - 2012-06-14 01:17:22 UTC
OK, it is possible to mine aligned even in an ice belt. It just take a little more time than usual due to the physical size of the roids.

Maybe a pentagon would work well enough...


IMO, Macs should get better fittings and tanks than Hulks, simply because the design of ice mining forces them to be on grid if they want to make anything. An ore miner can warp off at any time and still get something. An ice miner must finish a cycle (long one at that) or loses all of it.
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#63 - 2012-06-14 02:06:59 UTC
Jorma Morkkis wrote:
RubyPorto wrote:
Why does the Hulk need more grid to fit more tank if it can already tank plenty to make it unprofitable to gank it? Use the t2 resists, fit an MSE and tank the resists with an eye for blaster damage and you'll make it fairly expensive to gank you.


If you leave EM resist hole you give that Thrasher pilot a chance.

Actually Coercer could be used to solo gank it too.


Did I say leave a hole? No, I said tank "with an eye for blasters" that does not mean you completely disregard other damage.

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon

RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#64 - 2012-06-14 02:11:46 UTC
Jorma Morkkis wrote:
Tippia wrote:
Jorma Morkkis wrote:
Quite expensive ship to lose to cheap destroyers.
So don't. Also: irrelevant.

Quote:
They bring more fire power.
Just as irrelevant. Also: so bring more protection.
You know, they call it the ”moving the goalposts”-fallacy for a reason…


Do you know what happens when you rep someone who is attacked by someone in this game?
They can shoot that Logi pilot legally. Concord doesn't care.

Btw, do you own Basi or Scimi BPO? Big smile


Useful ability really. How do you think they're going to burn 50km and kill the Logi when CONCORD's busily pushing their shit in?

The people you gain agression from will be GCCed for the entire 15min aggro timer (assuming the people you're repping shoot back). You only gain agression if you rep someone who is a legal target for agression. Suicide gank victims are not legal targets, thus you can logi them all you want without getting a (useless) aggro timer.

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon

Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#65 - 2012-06-14 02:12:26 UTC
Remember folks, Hulks stand no chance against a gank Catalyst. None at all…
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#66 - 2012-06-14 02:13:27 UTC
Jorma Morkkis wrote:
Simi Kusoni wrote:
What are they going to do, burn ~70km in their thrashers and suicide gank your logi in the 7 seconds they have until concord appear and neut/jam/pop them?


Yes. Or use Oracle/Tornado.


Logi have nice stiff tanks and small sig radiuses. 50k EHP Basis are easy (and that's with needing to fit a prop mod).

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon

RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#67 - 2012-06-14 02:14:54 UTC
Jorma Morkkis wrote:
Tippia wrote:
Jorma Morkkis wrote:
Yes. Or use Oracle/Tornado.
…which they can also survive.


Scimi has 10k EHP usually. Tach Oracle and Arty Tornado can both hit for over 10k damage per volley.

Of course, for Tornado they need a carefully planned warp in point.


What the hell kind of Scimi fit are you running? Scimis have 40k+ EHP with a prop mod, Cap stable with 3 reppers (unstable running the MWD, ofc).

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon

RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#68 - 2012-06-14 02:19:33 UTC
Jorma Morkkis wrote:
Tippia wrote:
The OP mentions a single destroyer; I point out that it's easy to survive one.
Jorma moves the goalposts by saying it can't survive three; I point out that with logi and/or by being in a higher-sec system they can.
Jorma moves the goalposts by saying they will bring more people…

It's the very definition of moving the goalposts: when a solution is presented to the stated problem, the problem is restated to ensure that the present solution is wrong (and even then, he fails because the same solution still works — he's just too clueless about game mechanics to know this).


So, why this logi thing doesn't help freighter pilots survive in Jita?

Tippia wrote:
…on a ship that costs less than the gank ship they're employing; that can trivially outmanoeuvre the guns the ship is carrying; which is screaming along at 700m/s in a 50km-radius orbit. Yeah, no.


Last time I checked Scimitar costs ~170 mil + fitting.


1) Cause freighter ganks are entirely different than Hulk ganks.

2) And the Tornados needed to kill it would cost much more than 200m.

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon

Morganta
The Greater Goon
Clockwork Pineapple
#69 - 2012-06-14 02:21:11 UTC
I actually like that 2x web idea
of course it does nothing for lone wolfs, but for buddies and gangs, pretty good idea
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#70 - 2012-06-14 02:22:24 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Remember folks, Hulks stand no chance against a gank Catalyst. None at all…


That's one dead Hulk.

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon

RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#71 - 2012-06-14 02:25:20 UTC
Corina Jarr wrote:
OK, it is possible to mine aligned even in an ice belt. It just take a little more time than usual due to the physical size of the roids.

Maybe a pentagon would work well enough...


IMO, Macs should get better fittings and tanks than Hulks, simply because the design of ice mining forces them to be on grid if they want to make anything. An ore miner can warp off at any time and still get something. An ice miner must finish a cycle (long one at that) or loses all of it.


An Ice miner in a Mack needs only finish a half cycle.

Ice Miners can come up with inventive ideas to stay on grid in relative safety (hint: Tank+Logi helps here) even in the face of a gank attempt of a certain size (hint: Local+D-scan will help you figure out what size attempt is incoming).

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon

Marlona Sky
State War Academy
Caldari State
#72 - 2012-06-14 02:35:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Il Feytid
RubyPorto wrote:
Tippia wrote:
Remember folks, Hulks stand no chance against a gank Catalyst. None at all…


That's one dead Hulk.


Pretty sure he lived. You have a problem with that?

EDIT: lol the Hulk did more damage than Concord and the Federation Navy combined.
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#73 - 2012-06-14 02:36:31 UTC
Marlona Sky wrote:
RubyPorto wrote:
Tippia wrote:
Remember folks, Hulks stand no chance against a gank Catalyst. None at all…


That's one dead Hulk.


Pretty sure he lived. You have a problem with that?


[/sarcasm]

Sorry, forgot the bbcode tag.

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon

Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#74 - 2012-06-14 02:39:37 UTC
Marlona Sky wrote:
EDIT: lol the Hulk did more damage than Concord and the Federation Navy combined.
Well, that certainly explains the name… Blink

HULK SMASH PUNY DESTROYER RAAARRGH!
Corina Jarr
en Welle Shipping Inc.
#75 - 2012-06-14 02:54:16 UTC
RubyPorto wrote:
Corina Jarr wrote:
OK, it is possible to mine aligned even in an ice belt. It just take a little more time than usual due to the physical size of the roids.

Maybe a pentagon would work well enough...


IMO, Macs should get better fittings and tanks than Hulks, simply because the design of ice mining forces them to be on grid if they want to make anything. An ore miner can warp off at any time and still get something. An ice miner must finish a cycle (long one at that) or loses all of it.


An Ice miner in a Mack needs only finish a half cycle.

Ice Miners can come up with inventive ideas to stay on grid in relative safety (hint: Tank+Logi helps here) even in the face of a gank attempt of a certain size (hint: Local+D-scan will help you figure out what size attempt is incoming).

Ah I stand corrected.

So yes, mining aligned could still work and bugging out when likely gank ship shows up is still viable.


Another thing that works, mining at the top or bottom of the belt instead of close to the warp in. And in groups of unaffiliated ice miners.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#76 - 2012-06-14 03:01:04 UTC
Corina Jarr wrote:
[Another thing that works, mining at the top or bottom of the belt instead of close to the warp in. And in groups of unaffiliated ice miners.
In fact, let's just generalise that one to this handy tip:

The warp-in beacon of any commonly visited static location in space should be used once and for one purpose only: it's the place where you land with your MWD-equipped tier-2 frigate as you prepare to set up the actual warp-in spots you will land at on every subsequent visit.
Morganta
The Greater Goon
Clockwork Pineapple
#77 - 2012-06-14 03:04:35 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Corina Jarr wrote:
[Another thing that works, mining at the top or bottom of the belt instead of close to the warp in. And in groups of unaffiliated ice miners.
In fact, let's just generalise that one to this handy tip:

The warp-in beacon of any commonly visited static location in space should be used once and for one purpose only: it's the place where you land with your MWD-equipped tier-2 frigate as you prepare to set up the actual warp-in spots you will land at on every subsequent visit.


this ^^ is the first rule of mining
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#78 - 2012-06-14 03:06:30 UTC
Morganta wrote:
Tippia wrote:
Corina Jarr wrote:
[Another thing that works, mining at the top or bottom of the belt instead of close to the warp in. And in groups of unaffiliated ice miners.
In fact, let's just generalise that one to this handy tip:

The warp-in beacon of any commonly visited static location in space should be used once and for one purpose only: it's the place where you land with your MWD-equipped tier-2 frigate as you prepare to set up the actual warp-in spots you will land at on every subsequent visit.


this ^^ is the first rule of mining


I thought the first rule of mining was "remember to press F1"

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon

Kijo Rikki
Killboard Padding Services
#79 - 2012-06-14 03:10:03 UTC
for the short time i spent in a retriever before recovering my main, I went out to the belt i wished to mine in a shuttle, made 4 safes in a square named 1 2 3 4, 4 being very closely aligned to station. I had a BM at 0m directly above station and 2 undocks at random ranges.

The only way I see someone catching me is if they catch me aligning to a new point or if they decloak and manage to maybe bump me, but I doubt they can if I'm at the controls.

You make a valid point, good Sir or Madam. 

Cyprus Black
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#80 - 2012-06-14 03:16:10 UTC
It astounds me to see a lot of the responses in this thread are completely off topic.

The OP asked for a tank fitting for a mackinaw, not a bitchfest about mining in general. Stop telling the OP to mine in a battleship. You clearly didn't read the original post.

Summary of EvEs last four expansions: http://imgur.com/ZL5SM33