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Art - "goofy" was good, let's have some "goofy" back in EVE!

Author
Barbelo Valentinian
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#1 - 2012-06-13 16:54:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Barbelo Valentinian
There's already a thread on a subject related to this, but I've decided to make another, more general one on roughly the same topic, because my opinion is important and I'm a special snowflake, and I want the devs to notice this subject.

Let me preface this by saying at once that the art department is doing a fantastic job in terms of graphics quality and attention to detail - nobody can dispute that. EVE is one of the best looking games on the market atm, both spaceships and avatars-wise.

But this is about the overall art design direction of the game, and how it's gradually going down the pan.

A year or two ago I saw a video of (it may have been) Hilmar talking to the art department, asking them to look at s-f movies and base their art designs around them because CCP didn't want "goofy" in EVE.

WRONG!!!

What he should have said to the art department was: "knock yourself out, let your imagination run free and wild, picture what a civilization cut off from the mainstream for hundreds of thousands of years, that's had its own rises and falls, might look like"

"Goofy" was what made EVE special. Now it's turning into generic movie s-f spaceships, generic movie s-f avatars, generic movie s-f clothing, just ... generic.

The art design used to be evocative and mysterious. The different races had unique characters - Gallente were sexualized and semi-organic, Amarr were bombastic and golden with useless ornamentation, Caldari were pure utilitarian, and Minmatar were ... well, Minmatar. The avatars looked genuinely like space people - crazy, far future, so different from us the way we are now. The clothing was weird, with all sorts of bits and pieces the practical/social function of which you could only guess at.

Now, the art design is suggestive of us as we are now, only a few hundred years from now. It's basically just gay bikers in space, with a few old paedophiles and some punk chicks mixed in. The ships are all being "Caldarified", all becoming just various flavours of "utilitarian".

In Seleene's CSM blog she mentions that the art department are very keen on making things look like they have a function. That's commendable - but also, SOME THINGS SHOULD NOT HAVE AN OBVIOUS FUNCTION. Some things should be mysterious, so that the player fills in, in their own mind, some function for them. It's part of the rp aspect - part of feeling you're far away, thousands and thousands of years from now, in a civilization that's so different from us now that it appears alien.

So yeah, let's have some "goofy" back in EVE.
masternerdguy
Doomheim
#2 - 2012-06-13 16:58:35 UTC
CCP give me my old vagabond back!

Things are only impossible until they are not.

Torneach
Doomheim
#3 - 2012-06-13 16:59:40 UTC
+1, would read again.

Also, some response from the art department on their lack of creativity would be appreciated.
Whim Aqayn
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#4 - 2012-06-13 17:04:54 UTC
Agree. Goofy art is great. I do miss the old avatars.
ElQuirko
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#5 - 2012-06-13 17:09:12 UTC
OP is right. CCP, where is my swirly module of uselessness? All ships should have one. Then we can pretend it's a shield generator or something.

Dodixie > Hek

Nefertiri Ra'apharo
Mabad Ilhba Alasw'd
#6 - 2012-06-13 17:10:57 UTC
Torneach wrote:
+1, would read again.

Also, some response from the art department on their lack of creativity would be appreciated.


Doubt they are going to acknowledge lack of creativity if they respond.
Nefertiri Ra'apharo
Mabad Ilhba Alasw'd
#7 - 2012-06-13 17:17:45 UTC
Whim Aqayn wrote:
Agree. Goofy art is great. I do miss the old avatars.


I would not like to see my old avatars ingame again. That was one aspect of EvE I cringed at, they were like comic book caricatures, and everyone knows, Internet Spaceships is a Serious Business. I was thankful every time I logged on that I didn't have to stare at the avatar while playing.

That said, I did capture for posterity every old portrait I created.
Alexa Coates
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#8 - 2012-06-13 17:20:50 UTC
The only thing I miss is the cartoony pictures for the modules.
I would like bigger versions of them all if possible.

That's a Templar, an Amarr fighter used by carriers.

Rees Noturana
Red Rock Mining Company
#9 - 2012-06-13 17:28:16 UTC
There are plenty of other options for goofy and cartoony. Eve is serious business.

_ _

Nullity
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#10 - 2012-06-13 17:32:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Nullity
Rees Noturana wrote:
There are plenty of other options for goofy and cartoony. Eve is serious business.

Barbelo doesn't really mean "cartoony" though. The original post was trying to get across that EVE's art style is becoming more mundane, and approachable, when it should always have air of mystery to it since the game takes place 21,000 years (or so) into the future. There should be social and technological aspects of the art style that are alien and make no sense to us because if we were to time travel into 23,000s, that's exactly what we'd find.
Tobiaz
Spacerats
#11 - 2012-06-13 17:33:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Tobiaz
The original Scorpion looked great. But non-Caldari complained, not understanding its weird functional beauty. Eventually their whining got foothold at the art department and now we have the ship actually look like a sodding symmetric scorpion, instead of just sharing some defining features.

With its asymmetry and tail it looked weird but VERY Caldari. Now it just looks ridiculous. Same with the Ibis both look more like something that belongs in from some high-budget SF anime.

edit: The old Scorp, together with the Raven and the Blackbird are the reason why I chose Caldari (I played the beta as Amarr and Gallente). I HATE the new art direction.

Operation WRITE DOWN ALL THE THINGS!!!  Check out the list at http://bit.ly/wdatt Collecting and compiling all fixes and ideas for EVE. Looking for more editors!

Nullity
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#12 - 2012-06-13 17:34:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Nullity
Tobiaz wrote:
The original Scorpion looked great. But non-Caldari complained, not understanding its functional beauty. Eventually their whining got foothold at the art department and now we have the ship actually look like a sodding scorpion, instead of just sharing some defining features.


Agreed. The new Scorpion model is a joke. Before, it resembled a Scorpion. This made sense because the people of New Eden only have a rough idea of what Earth's creatures were like from their "mythology". Now, it's basically "lol I'm called Scorpion and I look like a Scorpion, complete with claws in space."
Damen Apol
Task Force 641
Empyrean Edict
#13 - 2012-06-13 17:36:36 UTC
I'm not old enough to remember this, but this does sound very nice to have mysterious looking ships that don't entirely make sense to us.
Barbelo Valentinian
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#14 - 2012-06-13 17:40:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Barbelo Valentinian
Nullity wrote:
Rees Noturana wrote:
There are plenty of other options for goofy and cartoony. Eve is serious business.

Barbelo doesn't really mean "cartoony" though. The original post was trying to get across that EVE's art style is becoming more mundane, and approachable, when it should always have air of mystery to it since the game takes place 21,000 years (or so) into the future. There should be social and technological aspects of the art style that are alien and make no sense to us because if we were to time travel into 23,000s, that's exactly what we'd find.


Exactly. "Goofy" is the word Hilmar (or whoever it was) used. I'm just "revaluing" the word - although of course as we see it's open to misinterpretation.

What I mean by the word "goofy" is "evocative and mysterious".

That CCP are draining the strange out of EVE and calling it "goofy" is the problem, and, I believe, an error of judgement on their part.

Even over several hundred thousand years, human physiology isn't going to change that much. It's absoutely fine that the avatars are now realistic and less cartoony in terms of flesh and blood.

What's not fine is the loss of the sense of cultural strangeness and alienness-to-us, in terms of both avatars and spaceships.
Tobiaz
Spacerats
#15 - 2012-06-13 17:42:13 UTC
Nefertiri Ra'apharo wrote:
Whim Aqayn wrote:
Agree. Goofy art is great. I do miss the old avatars.


I would not like to see my old avatars ingame again. That was one aspect of EvE I cringed at, they were like comic book caricatures, and everyone knows, Internet Spaceships is a Serious Business. I was thankful every time I logged on that I didn't have to stare at the avatar while playing.

That said, I did capture for posterity every old portrait I created.

At least then it was possible to determine the player's race by it's picture. Now everything looks the same and the only way to recognize a race is by it's limited choice in wardrobe.

Operation WRITE DOWN ALL THE THINGS!!!  Check out the list at http://bit.ly/wdatt Collecting and compiling all fixes and ideas for EVE. Looking for more editors!

Nullity
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#16 - 2012-06-13 17:43:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Nullity
Barbelo Valentinian wrote:

Even over several hundred thousand years, human physiology isn't going to change that much. It's absoutely fine that the avatars are now realistic and less cartoony in terms of flesh and blood.

Fashion absolutely will change though. Like you said, the cultural strangeness is gone. This is evident in both the ship designs and the clothing choices of EVE. Though personally, on the front of clothes, I've always assumed that the out-there sci-fi fashion would return via the Aurum store (which is a slap in the face discussion for a different thread).

Tobiaz wrote:

At least then it was possible to determine the player's race by it's picture. Now everything looks the same and the only way to recognize a race is by it's limited choice in wardrobe.

That is definitely another issue. It is next to impossible to differentiate between ethnicities now. Difference bloodlines don't have to be completely in your face, but there should be subtle differences that clue you in immediately on what they are.
Barbelo Valentinian
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#17 - 2012-06-13 17:45:07 UTC
Nullity wrote:
Barbelo Valentinian wrote:

Even over several hundred thousand years, human physiology isn't going to change that much. It's absoutely fine that the avatars are now realistic and less cartoony in terms of flesh and blood.

Fashion absolutely will change though. Like you said, the cultural strangeness is gone. This is evident in both the ship designs and the clothing choices of EVE. Though personally, on the front of clothes, I've always assumed that the out-there sci-fi fashion would return via the Aurum store (which is a slap in the face discussion for a different thread).


Yeah that's what I'd hoped too, and I would have been willing to pay moderately for extra out-there bits and pieces. But the paid-for stuff is as bland as everything else (although of course excellently well-done for what it is - beautifully done "bland" lol) .
Rees Noturana
Red Rock Mining Company
#18 - 2012-06-13 17:46:06 UTC
I like the new art direction. I like the new Scorpion a lot but I can't find a reason to fly one. Names come from our time to evoke some familiarity for us because if we lived 23,000 in the future the ship names would make sense to us. It is also completely possible that the original settlers of New Eden brought a large number of creatures with them, possibly even scorpions, in order to terraform the new worlds.

The Gallente could use with more outlandish choices considering their culture but I think the other races are on the mark as far as styling goes. It may be the far future but the people have been beaten down so many times that most choices are made for practical reasons and I think that is reflected in the current art direction.

_ _

Virgil Travis
Non Constructive Self Management
#19 - 2012-06-13 17:51:11 UTC
While I'm not sure I'd like to see the old style avatars returned as they were, some of them were really awful and embarrasing, I do feel that the new 'cgi' perfect look that has made some animations bland has taken something away from our avatars somewhat and if they keep applying this blandness to the ships then the unique flavour of 'oddity' will be lost and that's a shame.

As mentioned above it can be difficult to determine the race and bloodline of a lot of characters now, some have distinctive features but some can be mistaken for another of the races entirely. I remember a thread a week or two back where someone had an avatar and was asking what race and bloodline it was as they wanted to recreate it. A lot of us guessed and perhaps got it right but there wasn't a great deal to give us any real clue.

Unified Church of the Unobligated - madness in the method Mamma didn't raise no victims.

Barbelo Valentinian
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#20 - 2012-06-13 17:56:13 UTC
Rees Noturana wrote:
I like the new art direction. I like the new Scorpion a lot but I can't find a reason to fly one. Names come from our time to evoke some familiarity for us because if we lived 23,000 in the future the ship names would make sense to us. It is also completely possible that the original settlers of New Eden brought a large number of creatures with them, possibly even scorpions, in order to terraform the new worlds.

The Gallente could use with more outlandish choices considering their culture but I think the other races are on the mark as far as styling goes. It may be the far future but the people have been beaten down so many times that most choices are made for practical reasons and I think that is reflected in the current art direction.


But in the current snapshot of New Eden, the civilizations are on the rise, ambitious, and they've been around that way for a while - they should be flamboyant in their own ways. Maybe Minmatar, yes, they should be as you say, and the current "biker" look is what Minnies should be like generally. But the other races (again, both ships and people) ought to have a more expansive feel.

Gallente are trying to spread their liberalism, Amarr their theocracy, Caldari want to control, even Minmatar want to carve out their own space. All these are civilizations on the rise.
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