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Machariel feels like less of a tank than the Maelstrom?
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Ayeshah Volfield
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#21 - 2012-06-12 00:46:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Ayeshah Volfield
[Machariel, Machariel fit]

Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer
Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer
Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer
Gyrostabilizer II
Tracking Enhancer II
Tracking Enhancer II
Tracking Enhancer II

Pith A-Type X-Large Shield Booster
Heavy Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 800
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II / Mission Specific Hardener
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II / Mission Specific Hardener
Republic Fleet 100MN Afterburner

800mm Repeating Artillery II, Fusion L
800mm Repeating Artillery II, Fusion L
800mm Repeating Artillery II, Fusion L
800mm Repeating Artillery II, Fusion L
800mm Repeating Artillery II, Fusion L
800mm Repeating Artillery II, Fusion L
800mm Repeating Artillery II, Fusion L
Heavy Nosferatu II

Large Processor Overclocking Unit I
Large Projectile Metastasis Adjuster I
Large Core Defense Capacitor Safeguard I


Berserker TP-900 x2
Berserker SW-900 x2
Hobgoblin II x5

This is about as safe as it gets.

EVE is what happens when the rule of law does not apply and Darwinism is allowed to run freely.
Dato Koppla
Spaghetti Militia
#22 - 2012-06-12 02:32:53 UTC
What's wrong with using Sentries and sitting still if you're already sitting on the acceleration gate and all the npcs are in your range/closing in, I'm sure it'd be better than deploying heavies and burning up to every NPC individually.
Chainsaw Plankton
FaDoyToy
#23 - 2012-06-12 03:54:47 UTC
Zhilia Mann wrote:
Large Projectile Burst Aerator II


best rig for a mach ever!

Orlacc wrote:
[
You have a Mach (fastest BS in the game) and you...sit still? You use it like a (85m isk) Domi with Sentries? Wow.

I smell EFT wariior.


most rats die before they can really do damage to you. rarely need to move to mitigate damage, although moving a bit to apply more damage can be helpful, but imo the projection and tracking is mostly good enough that pretty often just being lazy works well enough.

@ChainsawPlankto on twitter
Verity Sovereign
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#24 - 2012-06-12 09:28:25 UTC
My standard lvl 4 fit is:

Highs
7x 800mm auto
Nos

Meds:
1x invuln
2x specific hardeners
1x shield boost
1x shield amp
Sometimes I drop one of the above for an AB, depending on the mission

Lows:
3x TEs
3x Gyros
1x DC

Rigs:
It used to be an incursion boat, and had a Therm II to fill in the therm hole (2 invulns and an EM)
2x whatever the rigs are called that boost shield buffer (though these aren't really good, passive regen and buffer go up, but the damage I take also goes up)
ChromeStriker
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#25 - 2012-06-12 11:33:16 UTC
[Machariel, New Mach]
Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer
Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer
Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer
Gyrostabilizer II
Tracking Enhancer II
Tracking Enhancer II
Tracking Enhancer II

100MN Afterburner II
X-Large Ancillary Shield Booster, Cap Booster 400
Explosive Deflection Field II
Kinetic Deflection Field II
Shield Boost Amplifier II

800mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet EMP L
800mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet EMP L
800mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet EMP L
800mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet EMP L
800mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet EMP L
800mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet EMP L
800mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet EMP L
[empty high slot]

Large Anti-Explosive Screen Reinforcer I
Large Anti-Kinetic Screen Reinforcer I
Large Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I

Get with the times lol you dont need a cap booster anymore.

And invest in 3 RFGyros at the very least. Theyre prob the most important modules on the mach

No Worries
Tore Smith
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#26 - 2012-06-12 13:13:13 UTC
Dato Koppla wrote:
What's wrong with using Sentries and sitting still if you're already sitting on the acceleration gate and all the npcs are in your range/closing in, I'm sure it'd be better than deploying heavies and burning up to every NPC individually.


nothing wrong with it at all. seems people get stuck in their ways pretty fast and dont see that the machs strong point is not only speed but applied damage as well.

a lot of the missions are finished faster in a sentry/tracking computer equipted mach.
FT Diomedes
The Graduates
#27 - 2012-06-12 13:37:23 UTC  |  Edited by: FT Diomedes
Orlacc wrote:
FT Diomedes wrote:
I'm not having any problems at all in any missions with this fit. The only thing I have against it is the ammo use, which is insane. You could totally downgrade to T2 tracking enhancers, T1 Afterburner, and T1 rigs. The ship would still be more than adequate for missions against Angels. Sometimes I switch out to heavy drones, but most of the time I prefer to sit still and use sentries.




You have a Mach (fastest BS in the game) and you...sit still? You use it like a (85m isk) Domi with Sentries? Wow.

I smell EFT wariior.


No, you use that great speed to get to the next gate quickly, while using your Warriors (which actually have enough speed to not be useless), then you drop sentries and use the Mach's amazing damage application to kill everything in sight. If there is no need to move the Mach, then why not use the best drones for the job? Heavy drones pretty much suck for missions, so I tend to use sentry drones on any ship with enough room for them.

The EFT warrior is the person who doesn't understand that drone travel time makes the heavy drones pretty terrible in most missions.

CCP should add more NPC 0.0 space to open it up and liven things up: the Stepping Stones project.

stoicfaux
#28 - 2012-06-12 14:14:20 UTC
FT Diomedes wrote:


No, you use that great speed to get to the next gate quickly, while using your Warriors (which actually have enough speed to not be useless), then you drop sentries and use the Mach's amazing damage application to kill everything in sight. If there is no need to move the Mach, then why not use the best drones for the job? Heavy drones pretty much suck for missions, so I tend to use sentry drones on any ship with enough room for them.

The EFT warrior is the person who doesn't understand that drone travel time makes the heavy drones pretty terrible in most missions.


Pfffft. Real Men(tm) put a MWD on their Mach and use heavy Stasis and TP drones. http://eve.battleclinic.com/loadout/58393-Machariel-Level-4-Blitzer-MWD-Web-EW-Drones-Minmatar-Space.html

MWD to within ~12km of the group via keep-at-range button, launch drones, drones insta-hit with their 10+km optimal webs/TPs, drop own web on target, target is now slower and bigger thus taking more damage from guns with minimal maneuvering on your part. DPS combat drones are anemic compared to the main guns.

Could probably stand to to switch to one of them new fangled X-Large Ancillary SBs.

Pon Farr Memorial: once every 7 years, all the carebears in high-sec must PvP or they will be temp-banned.
Quirinias
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#29 - 2012-06-12 15:59:31 UTC
For mission running I would think the Vargur would be superior. It has better tank and tracking than the mach with only slightly less gank. With better tracking though the real dps should be the same or higher. Granted, you'd probably make more isk flying a Jaguar in C1 sites and have more fun doing it.
Flakey Foont
#30 - 2012-06-12 16:15:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Flakey Foont
FT Diomedes wrote:
Orlacc wrote:
FT Diomedes wrote:
I'm not having any problems at all in any missions with this fit. The only thing I have against it is the ammo use, which is insane. You could totally downgrade to T2 tracking enhancers, T1 Afterburner, and T1 rigs. The ship would still be more than adequate for missions against Angels. Sometimes I switch out to heavy drones, but most of the time I prefer to sit still and use sentries.




You have a Mach (fastest BS in the game) and you...sit still? You use it like a (85m isk) Domi with Sentries? Wow.

I smell EFT wariior.


No, you use that great speed to get to the next gate quickly, while using your Warriors (which actually have enough speed to not be useless), then you drop sentries and use the Mach's amazing damage application to kill everything in sight. If there is no need to move the Mach, then why not use the best drones for the job? Heavy drones pretty much suck for missions, so I tend to use sentry drones on any ship with enough room for them.

The EFT warrior is the person who doesn't understand that drone travel time makes the heavy drones pretty terrible in most missions.



Dumb. If you don't need the Mach speed just get a Dominix or Rattlesnake. Sorry but it is a very lame idea. Sentries and a Mach is flat out weird. You spend over 1bil on a hull to just sit there??

On the other hand, sandbox is sandbox so do what you like.
stoicfaux
#31 - 2012-06-12 17:09:08 UTC
Quirinias wrote:
For mission running I would think the Vargur would be superior. It has better tank and tracking than the mach with only slightly less gank. With better tracking though the real dps should be the same or higher. Granted, you'd probably make more isk flying a Jaguar in C1 sites and have more fun doing it.

Depends.

If you're blitzing, the Mach is the way to go. The Mach's agility and speed allow it to get to/from the mission faster, and allow it to close the gap rapidly and reduce DPS from falloff.

The Vargur's advantages are its easy tank, ability to salvage/loot, and cheaper ammo costs (i.e. RF ammo.) However, given the various price changes, loot nerfs, etc., I'm not sure salvaging/looting is worth it anymore. The RF ammo is offset by the Mach's ability to reduce DPS loss to falloff.

As for the Vargur's better tracking, the Mach's speed and agility allows you to control your transversal (even more so if you use a web and web/tp drones on the Mach.)

If you're blitzing, go with the Mach. If you're shooting everything, either one is fine. If you want to actively fly a ship, use a Mach. If you're feeling lazy and just want to sit and shoot, use the Vargur (or Mach.) It's hard to go wrong with either ship.

Pon Farr Memorial: once every 7 years, all the carebears in high-sec must PvP or they will be temp-banned.
Mazzy Star
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#32 - 2012-06-12 17:16:49 UTC
Flakey Foont wrote:
FT Diomedes wrote:
Orlacc wrote:
FT Diomedes wrote:
I'm not having any problems at all in any missions with this fit. The only thing I have against it is the ammo use, which is insane. You could totally downgrade to T2 tracking enhancers, T1 Afterburner, and T1 rigs. The ship would still be more than adequate for missions against Angels. Sometimes I switch out to heavy drones, but most of the time I prefer to sit still and use sentries.




You have a Mach (fastest BS in the game) and you...sit still? You use it like a (85m isk) Domi with Sentries? Wow.

I smell EFT wariior.


No, you use that great speed to get to the next gate quickly, while using your Warriors (which actually have enough speed to not be useless), then you drop sentries and use the Mach's amazing damage application to kill everything in sight. If there is no need to move the Mach, then why not use the best drones for the job? Heavy drones pretty much suck for missions, so I tend to use sentry drones on any ship with enough room for them.

The EFT warrior is the person who doesn't understand that drone travel time makes the heavy drones pretty terrible in most missions.



Dumb. If you don't need the Mach speed just get a Dominix or Rattlesnake. Sorry but it is a very lame idea. Sentries and a Mach is flat out weird. You spend over 1bil on a hull to just sit there??

On the other hand, sandbox is sandbox so do what you like.


Who said that the Machariel will always just be sitting there because he has some sentry drones on board. Is it really so hard to wrap your little mind around using the Machariel's speed to your advantage in one mission, and also making use of its ability to field 4 heavy/sentry drones in other missions? Why are you assuming it's one or the other?

If the mission has gates, of course you fly to the next gate while clearing the rats. However, once you arrive at the next gate, there's nothing wrong with deploying sentry drones to finish off the remaining rats. There are also plenty of missions where you don't really need to move at all. Take WC for instance - you blitz through the first two rooms and then enter the third room right smack in the middle of all the angel ships. Since you have no where to go at that point but lots of rats to kill off, there's absolutely no harm in dropping 4 bouncers and having a bit of extra DPS to clear out the rats. While you can also use heavy drones in the same way, I personally consider them too slow for the vast majority of situations.

As for ECM drones, I don't really see the need. The Machariel already has absurd tracking and you'll be shooting most rats at range while they're flying directly towards you.
stoicfaux
#33 - 2012-06-12 17:28:02 UTC
Mazzy Star wrote:
As for ECM drones, I don't really see the need. The Machariel already has absurd tracking and you'll be shooting most rats at range while they're flying directly towards you.

IME, Angels tend to get in close fairly often and tracking becomes problematic even against battleships (the damage reduction is noticeable.) Plus, the whole point of an MWD Mach is to close the range quickly since every 11km closer you are to the target results in a ~10% increase in applied DPS.

Pon Farr Memorial: once every 7 years, all the carebears in high-sec must PvP or they will be temp-banned.
Mazzy Star
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#34 - 2012-06-12 18:02:34 UTC
stoicfaux wrote:
Mazzy Star wrote:
As for ECM drones, I don't really see the need. The Machariel already has absurd tracking and you'll be shooting most rats at range while they're flying directly towards you.

IME, Angels tend to get in close fairly often and tracking becomes problematic even against battleships (the damage reduction is noticeable.) Plus, the whole point of an MWD Mach is to close the range quickly since every 11km closer you are to the target results in a ~10% increase in applied DPS.



If that's your style, I suspect you're much better off with something like 4xBerserker than ECM drones (which are generally pretty bad except for EC-'s). You should have no problem keeping the angels at a reasonable distance (e.g., 15km) where tracking isn't a problem. Nothing says you have to let them burn right on top of you, especially in such a fast ship that can easily dictate range.

In any event, it comes down to your preferred playstyle, but I think it's silly to suggest that sentry drones don't have a place on a mission Machariel.
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