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Help me love the Jaguar
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Sovai Elaaren
KABS Deep Recon Unit
#1 - 2012-06-09 17:25:22 UTC
I've been trying to find a good fit for solo roaming in a jaguar in low-sec. Anyone have any good suggestions? It seems a little underwhelming when it comes to buffer tanking, so I was thinking of the following:

[Jaguar, ASB]
Internal Force Field Array I
Gyrostabilizer II
Tracking Enhancer II
Co-Processor II

Medium Ancillary Shield Booster, Cap Booster 50
1MN Afterburner II
J5b Phased Prototype Warp Scrambler I
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II

200mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP S
200mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP S
'Arbalest' Rocket Launcher I, Caldari Navy Mjolnir Rocket
200mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP S

Small Anti-Kinetic Screen Reinforcer I
Small Projectile Burst Aerator II


Stats with my skills and some basic dps implants are:

240dps w/ heated guns
220dps tank
1082m/s, 1400m/s w/ heat
7300ehp


You can vary the fit quite a bit to personal taste... replace rocket launcher with a neut/nos, replace ab w/ mwd and replace the invuln with a web for more range control.

Thoughts?
Zarnak Wulf
Task Force 641
Empyrean Edict
#2 - 2012-06-09 17:41:24 UTC
Try a similar build with a Harpy. Pull up a DPS curve and compare the two's damage projection. Then go pour yourself a drink and reminisce on the faded glory of the Jaguar. Cry
Sovai Elaaren
KABS Deep Recon Unit
#3 - 2012-06-09 18:36:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Sovai Elaaren
Hmm, I see what you mean, however, I think the Jaguar still has some advantages over the harpy that are worth considering; Selectable damage types and speed.

When I picked different assault ships as targets and factored in resists, it seemed that the jag had as good and sometimes better damage projection, sometimes worse and sometimes a mix depending on range. That said, the harpy seems to have a better tank no matter what due to it's resist bonus, and most of the ships it had trouble projecting damage against would also have trouble with it.

Still hoping there's some way to make it work! Ugh
McRoll
Extraction and Exploration Ltd.
#4 - 2012-06-09 21:13:05 UTC
I cannot help you to like it- it is one of the worse af''s now. Harpy is way better, sadly. Variable damage types do not cut it if the Harpy pours out probably twice the DPS and has more EHP.
Dave stark
#5 - 2012-06-10 09:23:02 UTC
the jaguar is still a good ship. a corp mate of mine got bored a few days ago and took his jaguar out on a bit of a solo roam.

he got it popped in the end but he wouldn't stop bragging about the tornado and sabre kills he got with it.
Framer Otsada
Silencer corp
#6 - 2012-06-10 16:12:45 UTC
make it arty and kite
Zarnak Wulf
Task Force 641
Empyrean Edict
#7 - 2012-06-10 16:24:36 UTC
Framer Otsada wrote:
make it arty and kite


If you put 3 x 280mm and a light launcher on the jag and compare it to one of the arty wolfs flying around - 4 x 280mm - you will find the damage curve projection of each to be very close to the other. The wolf however will have two speed mods in the lows and go about 400m/s faster.
Maeltstome
Ten Thousand Days
#8 - 2012-06-11 10:53:46 UTC
[Jaguar, TD's]

Gyrostabilizer II
Gyrostabilizer II
Damage Control II
Small Armor Repairer II

1MN Afterburner II
X5 Prototype Engine Enervator
J5b Phased Prototype Warp Scrambler I
'Abandon' Tracking Disruptor I, Optimal Range Disruption Script

250mm Light Artillery Cannon II, Republic Fleet EMP S
250mm Light Artillery Cannon II, Republic Fleet EMP S
250mm Light Artillery Cannon II, Republic Fleet EMP S
[Empty High slot]

Small Processor Overclocking Unit I
Small Projectile Collision Accelerator I
Aliaksandre
Screaming Hayabusa
#9 - 2012-06-11 13:52:11 UTC
It is a sad ship now. It's speed advantage is only worth anything if you have a web, and even then its damage projection is so poor that most of the other AFs will still eat it if you try and kite (wolf, veng).

The AB arty jag is nice because you can fit it with a buffer and kite other ships at the edge of scram range...much more forgiving than the arty Wolf.

You can also fit it with a gistii shield booster (great for 1v1s), or AC tracking disruptor/scram/web fit with a SAR.
Dischordant
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#10 - 2012-06-11 17:43:17 UTC
I never take mine out solo, but when we get a fleet together, it's a great ship for tackle. Fit for speed and tank, and let the others take care of the gank.
Sovai Elaaren
KABS Deep Recon Unit
#11 - 2012-06-11 20:05:33 UTC
I'm a little curious Zarnak, what Jag fit are you using with 280s that has similar damage projection to a 280 wolf? I wasn't able to find anything that came close.

I think you're right Dischordant, it'd be a great tackle ship for a gang with decent EHP, excellent speed and the ability to easily fit a nos to survive under neut pressure and a spare mid for extra ewar. That said, I'm hoping to find a viable solo fit.

Aliaksandre, I think it's the fact that the gistii ssb fit seems to be fairly solid that got me looking for something I could do with this ship. Often when I roam low-sec in a ship like this, I'm trying to isolate targets.

The more I look at it, the more it seems sub-par, but then, I don't think it's bad, it's just out-performed by other ships. I think it's still very usable, tbh.
Bill Serkoff2
Tachyon Technology
#12 - 2012-06-11 20:11:35 UTC
Jag is best with buffer shield.
That is, before ancillary boosters.
**** I don't know now.

"The Cyclone and the Drake are two ships which will basically never be good for shield tanking, primarily because they have almost no lowslots in addition to shield tanking bonuses. " -Iam Widdershins
Sovai Elaaren
KABS Deep Recon Unit
#13 - 2012-06-11 21:00:12 UTC
Bill Serkoff2 wrote:
Jag is best with buffer shield.
That is, before ancillary boosters.
**** I don't know now.


Due to the high boost amount and the finite number of reps (realistically, for a frigate fight you'll only get through one set of charges), the ASB is basically delayed EHP. The drawback is that it doesn't provide the upfront buffer, but after it's 10/11 cycles will give you more EHP than a MSEII. At least, that's how I've been looking at it.
Major Killz
inglorious bastards.
#14 - 2012-06-11 22:17:00 UTC
Auctually. The Jaguar is as effective as the Harpy, with regard to active defense. Clearly the harp has superior damage projection, but once the Jag does get into range. Not much difference between the 2. Even before CCP's new changes. There's a second setup that enables it to completely control engagements within warp scrambler range. Again. The real divergence is damage perjection under warp scrambler range and with long range setups.

The Jaguar isn't the worse. I would give that to the Wolf and Hawk. The Jaguar is even superior to a Enyo under warp scambler range, but not @ range (railgun > artillery).

Rank: Under warp scrambler range
-
Ishkur
Harpy
Vengeance
Jaguar & Enyo

Rank: @ 20,000m range
-
1) Harpy
2) Retribution
3) Enyo
4) Wolf & Jaguar

This list hasn't change much since I ranked them before the changes came live. I couldn't figure out the Jaguar, but it was better than the Wolf. After sometime getting threw the strength of the other assault frigates. It turns out the Jaguar wasn't Gar gar.

[u]Ich bin ein Pirat ！[/u]
Zarnak Wulf
Task Force 641
Empyrean Edict
#15 - 2012-06-11 23:00:44 UTC
Sovai Elaaren wrote:
I'm a little curious Zarnak, what Jag fit are you using with 280s that has similar damage projection to a 280 wolf? I wasn't able to find anything that came close.

I think you're right Dischordant, it'd be a great tackle ship for a gang with decent EHP, excellent speed and the ability to easily fit a nos to survive under neut pressure and a spare mid for extra ewar. That said, I'm hoping to find a viable solo fit.

Aliaksandre, I think it's the fact that the gistii ssb fit seems to be fairly solid that got me looking for something I could do with this ship. Often when I roam low-sec in a ship like this, I'm trying to isolate targets.

The more I look at it, the more it seems sub-par, but then, I don't think it's bad, it's just out-performed by other ships. I think it's still very usable, tbh.


Arty Jag:

High:
280mm II x 3
Malkuth Light Launcher
Med:
Limited MWD
Cap Recharger II
PWNG Target Painter
Warp Disruptor II
Low:
MAPC II
TE II x 2
Gyro II
Rigs:
Projectile Burst
Projectile Collision

Arty Wolf:

High:
280mm II x 4
Med:
Limited MWD
Faint Warp Disruptor
Low:
Gyro II
TE II x 2
Nano II x 2
Rigs:
Ancillary Current Router
Auxiliary Thruster

188 DPS vs. 197 DPS. The Jaguar closes that gap after 10km. The wolf goes 3133m/s compared to 2688 m/s for the Jaguar. Jag has 400 more EHP and is superior when using Republic Fleet Titanium
Major Killz
inglorious bastards.
#16 - 2012-06-12 00:18:08 UTC
Honestly. It's not worth fitting artillery on a Wolf or Jaguar. The Thrasher does the job much better @ lower cost. Same could be said for the Cormorant > Harpy, Enyo. @tleast the later ships have a significant increase in damage over the Cormorant (150 d per second @ 20,000m).

Infact. The Cormorant and Thrasher are superior to all long range assault ships (i'll throw the Coercer in there too). @tleast cost to preformance. Assault frigates really excel @ stacking hit points, low signature and active defense setups.

Also, those artillery setups aren't the most optimal setups... Ugh

[u]Ich bin ein Pirat ！[/u]