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New dev blog: Unified Inventory: Changes Coming Your Way This Friday!

First post
Author
Jared Tobin
Bloodstone Industries
B.S.I.
#341 - 2012-06-07 06:20:37 UTC
I logged into Eve at 05:45 (now 6:04) UTC

First time tonight: I waited for 20 minutes (even was able to file a full in-game bug report) because:

CURRENTLY: ALL UNIFIED INVENTORY WINDOWS were unendingly stuck with a bunch of "Spinning symbol"... (tested twice on separate login attempts).

[see screenshot]


I literally cannot play this game because all windows of the "Unified Inventory" are giving me access to NOTHING.

Can someone from CCP please tell me WHAT AM I PAYING FOR and WHY?

Honestly: As we roll into OVER THREE WEEKS, a month subscription reimbursement (in my opinion) would be humbly called for as we are well into the 3rd week of not being able to play this game functionally.

ESPECIALLY TONIGHT. (Wasted so much time filing reports, reloading, retesting... and now this: this is just painfully disheartening.)

Thanks in advance for any response.


Windows XP Pro SP3, cache was cleared (twice).
mjgvjbk
Herrscher der Zeit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#342 - 2012-06-07 06:42:08 UTC
Jared Tobin wrote:
I logged into Eve at 05:45 (now 6:04) UTC

First time tonight: I waited for 20 minutes (even was able to file a full in-game bug report) because:

CURRENTLY: ALL UNIFIED INVENTORY WINDOWS were unendingly stuck with a bunch of "Spinning symbol"... (tested twice on separate login attempts).

[see screenshot]


I literally cannot play this game because all windows of the "Unified Inventory" are giving me access to NOTHING.

Can someone from CCP please tell me WHAT AM I PAYING FOR and WHY?

Honestly: As we roll into OVER THREE WEEKS, a month subscription reimbursement (in my opinion) would be humbly called for as we are well into the 3rd week of not being able to play this game functionally.

ESPECIALLY TONIGHT. (Wasted so much time filing reports, reloading, retesting... and now this: this is just painfully disheartening.)

Thanks in advance for any response.


Windows XP Pro SP3, cache was cleared (twice).



Totally agree BUT do you really think with how arrogant ccp has been so far that they would even entertain the thought ? seriously CCP has been nothing but arrogant. Unless people who pay ccp stick together and show ccp they can't do this crap without consequences they will continue to do what ever they want.

CCP you do not own eve you merely developed it. We the customers own eve and without us your merely icicles on a frozen island with pretty code.
Jared Tobin
Bloodstone Industries
B.S.I.
#343 - 2012-06-07 08:40:43 UTC
mjgvjbk wrote:
Jared Tobin wrote:
I logged into Eve at 05:45 (now 6:04) UTC

First time tonight: I waited for 20 minutes (even was able to file a full in-game bug report) because:

CURRENTLY: ALL UNIFIED INVENTORY WINDOWS were unendingly stuck with a bunch of "Spinning symbol"... (tested twice on separate login attempts).

[see screenshot]


I literally cannot play this game because all windows of the "Unified Inventory" are giving me access to NOTHING.

Can someone from CCP please tell me WHAT AM I PAYING FOR and WHY?

Honestly: As we roll into OVER THREE WEEKS, a month subscription reimbursement (in my opinion) would be humbly called for as we are well into the 3rd week of not being able to play this game functionally.


Totally agree BUT do you really think with how arrogant ccp has been so far that they would even entertain the thought ? seriously CCP has been nothing but arrogant. Unless people who pay ccp stick together and show ccp they can't do this crap without consequences they will continue to do what ever they want.


Sadly, I'm not sure anymore. i do recall several years ago when they migrated their servers... and they "accidentally" had EVE "unplugged" to the players for just over 1 SINGLE DAY. They gave everyone a chunk of allocatable skillpoints for whatever they wanted to apply them to...

So I find myself trying to play and I'm constantly wondering how much 21+ days is worth...

Just a thought. I've done my best in several posts to keep it all factual and information based to help in feedback and such... but my patience and nerves are wearing thin...
Kblackjack54
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#344 - 2012-06-07 12:10:31 UTC
Seem your not the only one who's patience with CCP is wearing thin.

The assumption by CCP that in some way this UI is an improvement over the old system just because they have added 'FILTERS' is flawed, they could have done that by adding the option to the right click menu for each screen and changed very little else, this would have given the additional functionality that whoever was clamouring for it craved so much and left the original UI intact and functional across the game.

The current situation is one of a broken UI, not fit for purpose in most game context and CCP expending considerable time, money and effort trying to get it to work in the correct sense, resources that could and should have been directed towards solving some of the myriad of issues existent in the game for years now.

The additional current assumption by CCP that players are happy with the UI as it stands as long as they keep adding 'stuff' to it and fixing issues they created in it's original coding disguises the fact that players are only finding it useful because they have 'NO OTHER CHOICE', and by using a continuous series of ' workaround’s' they have managed to at least introduce to back into the game by themselves some semblance of the original functionality they already enjoyed with the old UI.

A solid weekends mining served only to provide me with this information, a situation in game were only by employing multiple workarounds was the exercise even possible at all, that of blind dropping into containers and hangars for one, multiple opening and resizing of windows to hide unwanted and non required information.

This meant that a six hulk mining fleet took almost twenty minutes to set up and get running in some semblance of order with open holds and dump cans only to find that the whole thing collapsed the moment a Rorqual was included as hauler when the pilot inadvertently popped the dump cans while collecting.

Leaving aside the opening and resizing problem of the hold windows, what was once a simple task task of double clicking a can to open it in a separate window to use it, size pre-set and positioned ready on screen now requires multiple shift-clicks resizing and moving to get it were needed, not to bad for say one or two hulks but for a fleet op, put simply it's a pain in an nutz guys and inefficient to boot.

Workaround used, six separate cans instead of the one to ensure that if one got popped by accident the whole system did not collapse.

Financial hit taken for the days mining, instead of 7.3 billion a paltry 4.2 billion for the same amount of time invested, utterly down to the much vaunted and CCP hyped up new UI and if you call that a better system, any company worth the mention would sack the lot of you for wasting there time and money.

Hilmar what the hell are you letting these idiots do to EVE.
mjgvjbk
Herrscher der Zeit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#345 - 2012-06-07 20:43:58 UTC  |  Edited by: mjgvjbk
Kblackjack54 wrote:


Hilmar what the hell are you letting these idiots do to EVE.


I think you'll find its Hilmar that's the problem time after time his personal wants and likes run a patch he has a mind set on what he perceives eve should be and he's hell bent of achieving this goal and to hell with everyone else.

You'll also find Dust is also setting out how eve should run as PC and game consoles need very different controls to open cans and inventory screens.

Well ccp you have lost 5 accounts from me go check if you think I'm pisssing in your pocket I have 2 accounts still running but ONLY cause I sub yearly and those 2 accounts still have 10 months on them and you wont give me a refund.

Bite the hand that feeds you and you get hit on the nose with a rolled up news paper.
Enzaki
Kenshin.
The Initiative.
#346 - 2012-06-08 06:20:22 UTC
dgastuffz wrote:
unsubt 2 accounts
WOT here i come



think i do the same !!!
Major Killz
Tr0pa de elite.
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#347 - 2012-06-08 12:15:51 UTC
Why am I not surprised. CCP somehow made working with my inventory worse.

Role back the inventory changes. That will solve the problem.

[u]Ich bin ein Pirat ![/u]

Diamonica Norya
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#348 - 2012-06-08 12:44:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Diamonica Norya
Jared Tobin wrote:
I logged into Eve at 05:45 (now 6:04) UTC

First time tonight: I waited for 20 minutes (even was able to file a full in-game bug report) because:

CURRENTLY: ALL UNIFIED INVENTORY WINDOWS were unendingly stuck with a bunch of "Spinning symbol"... (tested twice on separate login attempts).

[see screenshot]


I literally cannot play this game because all windows of the "Unified Inventory" are giving me access to NOTHING.

Can someone from CCP please tell me WHAT AM I PAYING FOR and WHY?

Honestly: As we roll into OVER THREE WEEKS, a month subscription reimbursement (in my opinion) would be humbly called for as we are well into the 3rd week of not being able to play this game functionally.

ESPECIALLY TONIGHT. (Wasted so much time filing reports, reloading, retesting... and now this: this is just painfully disheartening.)

Thanks in advance for any response.


Windows XP Pro SP3, cache was cleared (twice).


There's a workaround

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1430331#post1430331

basically means
close "ALL" opened inventory windows (right click close, not close minimize close (x button))
restart Eve
Open them again (shuffling windows may or may not be required)
note: You need to do this almost every time you run the game (close (b4 quitting) and reopen (after logged in) all inventory windows) as long as where you logged out has a corp station hanger opened in a separate window
note2: reply from the bug team says you can get a GM to solve this, this is most not likely an inventory/programming issue (wordless....)

hope it helps

Edit: and yes, I raged at it because it wasted myself an hour before finding out what was exactly happening, filing bug report. And it is still wasting my time every time I (my alt with corp hanger access) log in until it is fixed
Deriah Book
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#349 - 2012-06-08 17:20:01 UTC
Dear Mr. CCP Soundwave

Solely out of curiosity...

What were the circumstances that lead to the deletion of the post, and subsequent posts that referenced the one with the bullet list outlining graceful actions?


CCP Soundwave wrote:


Regarding the options to hide/remove stuff, we're looking at options of doing this gracefully.


The one in response to this.

Urgg Boolean
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#350 - 2012-06-08 21:20:34 UTC
They just installed a new mirror on SiSI. The download was about 500Megs.

Initial mini-test ::
windows remember their positions in-station.


I have to teach a night class tonight so I won't have time to test further. On top of that, the new mirror blew away the POSes I built in null to test the tree, so I'll have to rebuild all that for more extensive testing.

I encourage you guys to get on SiSi, download the new mirror, and TEST TEST TEST !!!! I have Sunday off, so I can play around some more on SiSi then... I look forward to your comments.
Jared Tobin
Bloodstone Industries
B.S.I.
#351 - 2012-06-11 04:37:20 UTC
Part 1 of 2:

I have been patiently and continually filing bug reports and posting usablely outlined "Issues" and "Feedback" for 3 weeks, and I have now compiled a list of THANK YOUs ... and ... REMAINING/NEW ISSUES (as of Inferno 1.0.10):

THANK YOU FIRST TO ADDRESSING/FIXING THE FOLLOWING:

- MOVING "ALL-SELECTED" ITEMS: ** FIXED! Thank you!
- TOO LONG "TAB" NAMES: ** FIXED! Thank you!
- LAG: Trading/Job Delivering/Moving Massive Amounts/Stacking All/Selling Items: ** FIXED! Thank you! ...Though you do have several other new lag issues (see below)
- "MY FILTERS" ALWAYS OPEN: ** FIXED! Thank you!
- MORE TIME-CONSUMING: ** Well.... not quite there, but it's much better. ESPECIALLY "ISK Estimation" not causing noticable lag. Thank you. Please don't stop... (read onward)


...AND NOW THE NEW (AND STILL EXISTING) ISSUES (and UNADDRESSED FEEDBACK/FIXES):

- "Nothing Found" REMAINS IN ALL UI WINDOWS' CONTENT BACKGROUNDS AND TRADE WINDOW BACKGROUNDS (when any opened hangar, container, deliveries window, cargohold, etc): If an EMPTY Unified Inventory window of any kind is opened, anything you place into the window(s) remains with the "Nothing Found" words in the background of each window. I'm sensing a theme of this error as I write this...

(see screenshot)

- CHANGING CORP WALLET DIVISIONS: ...STILL takes 10+ seconds each time it is changed.

- INITIAL LOGGING IN TO GAME HAS MASSIVE "SPINNING WHEELS" LAG: It appears if there are several windows open (i.e., Station Inventory, Ship Cargohold, Corporate Hangar(s), Ship Inventory, Deliveries, for example) then it takes 15-45+ seconds for the game to load up all inventory (or lack of) in each remembered-window opened from previous logge din session... thus the appearance of the "spinning wheel of waiting"... Sometimes sufferably.

- "SPINNING WHEELS" ALSO OCCURS WHEN DOCKING INTO A NEW STATION (as above bug): This is especially noticable when docking with a new station that has another corporate office of own corp. THIS HAS BEEN MENTIONED BY MY OWN MINERS AS: A "HINDERENCE" to (what used to be) a quick "mine-dock-dump ore-undock" procedure. (This obviously has reduced mining by up to 75% if a corp member is continually docking with a corp-office-station. To "lessen" this lag, miners have reported that mining and docking-dumping-undocking at NON-CORP OCCUPIED stations help "lessen" this lag, but is ultimately cumbersome to massively haul final mined ore to a corporate-office station in the end.

- "SHIFT-CLICK" STILL DOES NOT OPEN ANY CONTAINERS IN ANY UNIFIED INVENTORY WINDOW: It's ridiculous for me to not use a shortcut that, though worked last week, doesn't now. NOW, I have to "expand" an existing window to see the "TREE"... and then adjust its width so that I can read all the "too far inset to the right" containers in hangars... then right click and select "Open in new window"... then compress the pointlessly narrow "tree exposure". Too many steps for something that could easily be solved simply by DOUBLE-CLICKING the container and have it open in a new window... or a new tab. **Unaddressed since my notation on June 3.

- LACK OF VISIBLE "ROW" DIVIDING LINES IN ALL "UNIFIED INVENTORY WINDOWS": Take a look at the market listings, or the listings of the Science & Industry wndows... ALL ITEMS HAVE VISIBLE ROW LINES. The Unified Inventory windows all lack those lines. Oh, sure, they're there... AT 10% OPACITY. ** Unaddressed since my notation May 24. HIGHLY needed!

(see screenshot)

...AND because your rows lack lines (when not using any icon-type listing), a person may need to use the mouse pointer to "highlight" and item and its contents... SADLY, when this happens, a window pops up and obstructs what I'm trying to see. This has been noted since May 24 verbatim as:

- "POP UP" INFORMATION IS UNNECESSARY AND BLOCKING MY VIEW: ** This is VERY annoying and unchanged since May 24. When hovering my mouse over an item in hangar, it sometimes is because I'm comparing the quantities of it to another item a few lines above it (especially since there are no visible dividing row lines in LIST mode). SADLY I CANNOT "SEE" anything in those spots (whether name or quantity, etc) being covered by by "estimated prices for both unit price and stack price... in the "compact line-by-line listing mode" (which I use because, well, as you may have seen, my screen has a lot of stuff to look at all at once), this is literally making my tasks more of a pain.

(see screenshot)

- EXISTING WINDOWS IN SPACE DO NOT CLOSE WHEN NOT PRESENT: Currently, secure/loot containers in space, POS containers/hangars/modules, Planetary Customs Office windows stay open, even when warping away from them. IN SOME INSTANCES, the existing open windows get "compressed"/"shoved" into the area of where one's own ship's cargohold UI window is.

- CORPORATE TAXATION IS NOT FUNCTIONING: Several members (for example) of my own corporation have noticed that JUST BEFORE AND AFTER Inferno was "released", certain members' mission rewards, bounties, etc (that appear as taxable ISK which is taken from corp member wallets and deposited into the corp's Master wallet) IS NO LONGER FUNCTIONING. [This has been reported with no response.]

- BRACKETS AND LOWERCASE "TAILED" LETTERS ARE TOO LOW - INTERFERING WITH CHAT WINDOW's TOP LINE VS. EXISTING BAS: The brackets and the tail lowercase letters "q,y,p,g,j" and brackets (i.e. "Local [36]"), all extend BELOW the line of the tabs and the current/"foremost" open chat window borderlines... [Bug Report #135869]

(see screenshot)

CLIENT: Windows XP Pro SP3
Jared Tobin
Bloodstone Industries
B.S.I.
#352 - 2012-06-11 04:37:30 UTC
Part 2 of 2:

HIGHLY IMPORTANT SUGGESTIONS:

- PLEASE MAKE "ISK-CALCULATING/EST" VALUES "OPTIONAL": ** Still not publicly addressed: It's really frustrating. Personally, with price estimation and such, that's one of my corporate jobs. THOUGH NOW ITS LAG IS NOT AN ISSUE - ITS TAKING UP SCREEN SPACE... and by the way, "honestly, your price estimations are 50% terribly wrong". I work (play?) in EVE mainly with items of value.
I WILL AGREE, THOUGH: For some people, especially non-industrialists and new players, this may be helpful for those players, BUT PLEASE MAKE IT AN OPTION: IT'S NOT FOR EVERYONE.

- PLEASE ALLOW "ROLLOVER NAMES" FOR ITEMS PARTIALLY VISIBLE IN EXPOSED TREE SECTION OF ANY UNIFIED UI WINDOW: This is something that is quite opposite of ALL other "mouseover" behaviors in the game. I can rollover anything, and its full name (or too much information, like costs of items, etc) will always appear... UNTIL I hover over ANYTHING partially exposed in the "narrow TREE view". This is LESS PRODUCTIVE since I have to not only expand to view the "TREE", but I have to then grab the axpansion divider atop and DRAG IT to the right to be able to read ALL my containers inside hangars inside "CORPORATION". EXAMPLE: In my corp, all containers are named ">> INSERT NAME HERE" to help with alphabetization/organization/ease of discernation. However if we have 10 containers in a Corporate hangar, the "opened TREE view" lists it like this:

>> [line]
>> [line]
>> [line]

So instead of having to drag open the "TREE exposure" column more, if I could see a "pop up/mouse-over" name of the container I can PARTIALLY see, then I can open up the container much more quickly without additional movement and dragging.

- IF YOU DOUBLE-CLICK a place you would like to open, PLEASE MAKE IT AUTOMATICALLY FORCE OPEN in a NEW window. OR GIVE US THE OPTION TO MAKE "DOUBLE-CLICKING" A CONTAINER PERFORM THIS TASK... Because, as we are ALL so used to double-clicking to open a new tab. But NOW, if we do double-click anything, we're stuck with a new window in the same window were in that we can't GO BACK from. This is ridiculously time-consuming. ** This issue/feedback has been noted since May 24.


...AND YES: I have cleared my Cache and reset my Settings more times in the past 3 weeks than I regularly have since January 2012.

So please, when I file a bug report, can someone mention to the Bug Report Responders to include MORE "possible" information than simply "Please try clearing you cache and resetting your settings. If the issue persists, please reopen your report. Thank you."

CLIENT: Windows XP Pro SP3
Quicksilver Proteus
Trans Galactic Technologies
#353 - 2012-06-13 03:43:34 UTC
I think there's a lot of the following sentiment around: I will cheer loudly and do cartwheels in my front yard if I see the following post/message regarding a new patch - "Due to user playability issues and numerous bugs reported in release XXXXX, we are delaying the release of XXXXX until such playability issues are bugs are resolved. We apologize for the delay but know that you would rather us release a finished product instead of one that should still be in beta."

I'm sure the following "features" have been discussed before but I have not seen it specifically discussed:

After docking, if you double click on your ship to open its inventory and then click on the Items icon to open up the Item Hangar it will minimize the ship inventory screen instead of opening a new window. The same thing happens when you shift click.

If you already have your ship inventory open, along with any cans that you may have opened when you dock and then try to open up the Item Hangar it will instead show a list immediately to the right where you can see each can and the ship but it does not open the Item hangar.

If a new "feature" requires more clicks or steps (such as holding down the shift key) to accomplish something that beforehand did not require these extra steps, it is NOT an improvement. It may seem trivial but all of these extra clicks add up quickly and decreases efficiency.

While I do like the fact that the persistence issue has been addressed to some extent please make it an option "Always open up Item Hangar when Items icon is clicked." If I want to open up my ships inventory it is easy to do so just by double-clicking on my ship.

Have a separate icon for opening up Corp Inventory with tabs for each division. That is much more workable than the current "Explorer" style.

I work for a software company so I understand how these things can happen. It is usually a marketing exec who has a pet project that he wants released and oftentimes there is a bonus involved if the project is release on time. The result is that buggy unworkable software is released that makes things difficult for the EU. The marketing exec still gets his bonus and has no idea why everyone is up in arms about the release because he never uses the software in the first place.

I'll steal a quote from someone famous and change it a bit: "An improvement is an improvement ONLY if it improves things."
Tequila Breeze
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#354 - 2012-06-13 07:40:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Tequila Breeze
Ive unsubed most of my accounts now, have 2 left, 23 days and my main and its alt go unsub.
Im so sick of CCP in general so in 23 days ill be spending all my time and real world money over at http://us.blizzard.com/en-us/games/d3/
As CCP Doesnt give a rat's Ass about any of us, im done
Callidus Dux
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#355 - 2012-06-13 09:42:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Callidus Dux
CCP has to think about it, why it was necessary to bring out two new forum rules.
Sure the hate and upcoming increased personal attack on CCP employees is not tolerable. But at least obvious. It is not so, that the majority of the eve community is upset because CCP did a good job or listened to the customer. It is because they force unwanted and unfinished things that where far away from ANY usability or improvement and completely ignore ALL customers who pays to play the game and do not want to test it; or being unable to play the game any longer because of this absolute terrible UI. It is a fact that barely one loves this UI. Have a look at all the different threads in the forum. (If you are able to find all of them.)

As it is now: CCP denies every statement what they will do in the FUTURE. They only let us know little things about the next week. What comes next month? What will you bring MORE to improve the UI? Just “Improvements” and “Listened feedback” is not enough to calm down the player base who don’t like the unified inventory.
I had a small “conversation” with two CCP’s in another thread. And not surprisingly; all I got was nothing constructive from them. I can not write or link the comments from them because they are deleted and a reconstruction from my memory would not give a proper picture.

So I would really suggest to bring a information website where all interested people can have a look at the planned changes for this UI. I, and perhaps many others, do not need a tight fit high-tech masterplan with all details and the correct time frame.
Just a list with all ideas which will come back to this UI. And an explanation why something will not come back. Denial of a right click menu or an icon at the NeoCom would be not a good idea. It would be easy to implement and would help players. Why deny this changes? That makes no sense.

The DEV’s and CCP’s are under enormous pressure. But its not the fault of the paying customer. Its CCP’s and its release dogma fault. So please stop forcing and do not ban people because they feel ignored from you and want a statement from you. Say something more than just empty phrases like “Improvements” and so on. WHAT exact do you plan? Why do you not rebuild (I want not a roll back) the old UI and degrade this unified UI to the asset window as many others asked?

I do not like your filters. WHY? I have containers which I can not access with this current UI.
I do not like the est. price calculation. It is always wrong, not useable and causes lag and calculation time.
I do not like to have elements into one window that doesn’t belong together.
I do not like to have more shortcuts or SHIFT+X solutions to have my windows back!
I just want double clicks and right click options and icons in the NeoCom. (without any shift)

Think about it and please react. Someone in the forum stated “Please stop beginning your DevBlogs with ‘Hello Spacefriends’. At this point we are no friends anymore.”
This alone should show the mood of many players at present.
Continue to act as you do since 22.05.2012 and EVE will possibly not reach the 10th anniversary.

CCP is your company; EVE is your child; but without enough customers you can not pay your bills and employ your people or develop the game. I am at the point where EVE has no fun for me anymore. Sadly- but it is the hard fact.

Callidus Dux
(no gameplay since 22.05.2012)