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Announcement: -WHG- Joins STPRO
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Ilsenae Alexandros
Perkone
Caldari State
#41 - 2012-06-11 04:03:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Ilsenae Alexandros
[Redacted by request]

To know the face of God is to know madness.
Graelyn
Aeternus Command Academy
#42 - 2012-06-11 04:33:49 UTC
Pointing out menstrual cycles is demeaning to women?

You seem to be a bit of a tit.

Cardinal Graelyn

Amarr Loyalist of the Year - YC113
Dex Nederland
Lai Dai Infinity Systems
The Fourth District
#43 - 2012-06-11 05:02:42 UTC
Altarr Orkot wrote:
Well as you have been so insistent to tell me in the past, Mr. Heth is only the CEO of KK. Please tell me why would he have any influence in the actions of the Peace Corps or CalNav?

He has influence over the Caldari Navy the same way that the CEO of Ishukone has influence over the Caldari Navy, via KK's influence in the CEP. It is through the CEP and Caldari Navy that any Caldari CEO can officially influence the State Protectorate.

He has influence with WPC by negotiating with Wirykomi and creating contractually binding agreements between KK & Wirykomi.

Altarr Orkot wrote:
And of course the CPD aren't the same as StatePro, I didn't say they were? But the CPD isn't a military force, StatePro is. And what does StatePro do? Fights a war of conquest for... Tibus Heth! They did after all conquer all that space which Tibus Heth sold off.

You labelled the State Protectorate as "Heth's personal army," a term often leveled at the CPD. You also accuse those in the Protectorate of being "Provist." Provist refers to members of the CPD. I am not sure if you recognize a difference.

The State Protectorate was founded under the same CONCORD act that created the Federal Defense Union, Tribal Liberation Force, and 24th Imperial Crusade.

The space was occupied by Caldari capsuleers and the development and exploration rights of the space was auctioned off to the megacorporations. Would you prefer that the State Protectorate and Caldari Navy have the responsibility of administering dozens of systems when they are occupied? They tend not to manage civil affairs very well.

Altarr Orkot wrote:
Like I said, CalNav and the Peace Corps are legitimate organisations that for the most part don't participate in offensive actions (baring perhaps ground assaults by the Peace Corps).

The Caldari Navy and WPC (as well as HG, LDPS, etc) participated directly in the liberation of Caldari Prime. As Federals have pointed out in the past, what was reported as Caldari Navy forces were operating in occupied Ostingele.

Altarr Orkot wrote:
The only choices are not StatePro or piracy, there exist other choices which would have allowed him to 'protect'.

What CONCORD-sanctioned mechanism for the defense of Black Rise would allow WHG to engage Federation invaders in Black Rise outside of the CONCORD Militia Act sanctioned organizations or "piracy" against Federal pilots in Black Rise?


Lai Dai Infinity Systems
Altarr Orkot
Revenent Defence Corperation
Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
#44 - 2012-06-11 05:29:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Altarr Orkot
EDIT: I would take this opportunity to clear a few things up. Clearly -WHG- is not a Provist or Fascist organisation. The State Protectorate has never engaged in attacks or conquest of Federal territory, nor is that their mission statement. The State Protectorate is not in any way, shape or form connected to Tibus Heth, his policies, his actions or the CPD. All my previous statements to the contrary are retracted.

Please accept my humblest and deepest apologies for having erred.
Gosakumori Noh
Coven of One
#45 - 2012-06-11 06:12:53 UTC
Karmilla has the right of it: embrace the fascist label and be done with the whole affair. It does not matter what they call you.

We Amarr understand these things.
Malcolm Khross
Doomheim
#46 - 2012-06-11 11:23:53 UTC
Altarr Orkot wrote:
EDIT: I would take this opportunity to clear a few things up. Clearly -WHG- is not a Provist or Fascist organisation.


I hope you are being sincere, though I doubt it.

Altarr Orkot wrote:
The State Protectorate has never engaged in attacks or conquest of Federal territory...


Oh, it most certainly has but that does not mean that every pilot within it is also planning to do so. Some of us simply need to be able to legally defend our home and assets without CONCORD interfering.

Altarr Orkot wrote:
...nor is that their mission statement.


State Protectorate wrote:
"We are the State, and we have claimed our long-lost homeland. Now we are at war; united, whole and full of fire and purpose. The State calls you, capsuleer, for it needs your strength and your leadership to fend off the encroaching Gallente menace. The State will not fall. Join us. Fight. Conquer."
—State Protectorate corporate description


The STPRO mission statement in primarily defensive. It has "conquer" at the very end, which in context with the rest of the statement would suggest that it refers primarily to reconquering lost territory.

Altarr Orkot wrote:
The State Protectorate is not in any way, shape or form connected to Tibus Heth, his policies, his actions or the CPD. All my previous statements to the contrary are retracted. Please accept my humblest and deepest apologies for having erred.


The State Protectorate is part of the State and thus it is indirectly related to Heth and his policies. However, it is an independent entity that operates outside of the CPD and is not under any direct authority of Heth.

If your apology is indeed sincere, then I am pleased to see it. If I have mistaken your intent as sarcasm when it is truly sincere, then I offer my return apology for my misjudgment.

~Malcolm Khross
Diana Kim
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#47 - 2012-06-11 12:02:36 UTC
Seriphyn Inhonores wrote:
Your Wirykomi Corporation lays claim to the sovereign systems of Alsavoinon, Aubenall, Eugales, Frarie, Moclinamaud, Oicx, Renarelle, and Vlillirier. Though Wirykomi has not controlled these territories for any consistent period of time since the Provist blind auction (they have been free and in control of the local inhabitants for almost three years now), Alsavoinon is currently vulnerable to enemy assault.

Do not worry, General.
Even if those, who have to protect Wiyrkomi's interests will deny their duty and will stain their honor, there will be always loyal citizens who will aid in retaking these systems. Sooner or later the order will be restored, federals and outlaws will be driven out.
And that will bring profits to the State, to the Wiyrkomi and to residents of the forementioned systems, who are still living in misery and degradation under federal rule.

Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.

In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.
Anja Suorsa
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#48 - 2012-06-11 14:29:14 UTC
Diana Kim wrote:
Seriphyn Inhonores wrote:
Your Wirykomi Corporation lays claim to the sovereign systems of Alsavoinon, Aubenall, Eugales, Frarie, Moclinamaud, Oicx, Renarelle, and Vlillirier. Though Wirykomi has not controlled these territories for any consistent period of time since the Provist blind auction (they have been free and in control of the local inhabitants for almost three years now), Alsavoinon is currently vulnerable to enemy assault.


Do not worry, General.
Even if those, who have to protect Wiyrkomi's interests will deny their duty and will stain their honor, there will be always loyal citizens who will aid in retaking these systems. Sooner or later the order will be restored, federals and outlaws will be driven out.
And that will bring profits to the State, to the Wiyrkomi and to residents of the forementioned systems, who are still living in misery and degradation under federal rule.


On what grounds do you question our duty, honor and loyalty? I am genuinely curious.

We have standards that we will adhere to. As Khross-haan has already stated, we will be defending State sovereign territory and Wiyrkomi assets in the war-zone. That is our duty and we will not shirk from it. Our duty is not to you and most certainly not to assist you in subjugating the Gallente. Our actions both past and future will demonstrate both our honor and loyalties for all to scrutinize.

If, as it appears, this rubs you the wrong way, I would ask you to kindly take your unjustifiably haughty demeanour elsewhere as we clearly share very little in common with you.
Dex Nederland
Lai Dai Infinity Systems
The Fourth District
#49 - 2012-06-11 15:11:17 UTC
Malcolm Khross wrote:
If your apology is indeed sincere, then I am pleased to see it. If I have mistaken your intent as sarcasm when it is truly sincere, then I offer my return apology for my misjudgment.

Seconded.

Lai Dai Infinity Systems
Malcolm Khross
Doomheim
#50 - 2012-06-11 15:53:24 UTC
I am not normally one to point to successes and achievements, nor to try and gloat about myself or my corporation. However, as the integrity of the Honor Guard has been challenged quite vocally lately due to our recent decision to join STPRO, I felt it may be prudent to point to a neutral source outside of the Honor Guard in order to provide some level of credibility to our claims.

In WHG's original statement to join STPRO, it was clearly indicated that our purpose for joining was to operate in a defensive capacity, securing State sovereign space from Federation occupancy and engaging in anti-piracy operations.

In this news article from a neutral source, our actions are being compared to our words. I would like to point out the systems we are primarily operating in and that they are, indeed, in the sovereign space of the Caldari State and that our primary focus has been on securing territory in a defensive capacity. We will continue our operations in this capacity.

~Malcolm Khross
Silas Vitalia
Doomheim
#51 - 2012-06-11 17:41:52 UTC
Notions about "defensive" operations, or "containing" conflict to certain specific systems is a rather quaint notion, don't you think?

If you commit to your new allegiance, than commit mind, body, and soul. Dancing half in and out is folly.

Sabik now, Sabik forever
Tiberious Thessalonia
True Slave Foundations
#52 - 2012-06-11 17:56:03 UTC
I have to agree. Historically, there are two very bloody and destructive motives for war.

The first is a war driven by hate. I am glad to see that -WHG- is avoiding this particular motive. Hatred, while passionate, does not allow for compromise. Without compromise, there is no hope for peace until one side or the other has been destroyed.

The second, and in fact the more bloody, is a war wherein both sides fight 'defensively'. Like hatred, the defence of ones homeland cannot allow for compromise. Unlike in a war guided by hatred, both sides dig in, refuse to press any advantages given, and the war enters a period of stasis. The so-called meat-grinder wars are of this nature, where two sides sit in trenches with emplaced weapons, and the war is fought for inches of blood stained ground.

In short, a purely defensive war is a war of folly. Far better to seek advantage where one can find it, fight as hard as possible until you have achieved an overwhelming advantage, and then use that advantage to sue for desireable peace.

None of this really applies to the Faction War, however, because those are, by design, meatgrinder wars. They will never end, because there is no end-point goal. Just eternal conflict, going forever, with immortal pilots and all-too-mortal but seemingly endless in number crews, fighting for a limited section of space everyone could agree that they don't particularly want.
Malcolm Khross
Doomheim
#53 - 2012-06-11 18:11:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Malcolm Khross
Silas Vitalia wrote:
Notions about "defensive" operations, or "containing" conflict to certain specific systems is a rather quaint notion, don't you think?


No, I don't.

Silas Vitalia wrote:
If you commit to your new allegiance, than commit mind, body, and soul. Dancing half in and out is folly.


It isn't a new allegiance, our allegiance is and always will be to the principles of honor and integrity, the State and the people under its jurisdiction and provision. The State Protectorate is merely a means by which we can continue our operations legally without ramification. We are committed to these principles and these allegiances mind, body and soul.

When I am interested in learning how to serve only myself and pursue "power" above all else, I will ask a Sani Sabik.

Tiberious Thessalonia wrote:
The second, and in fact the more bloody, is a war wherein both sides fight 'defensively'. Like hatred, the defence of ones homeland cannot allow for compromise. Unlike in a war guided by hatred, both sides dig in, refuse to press any advantages given, and the war enters a period of stasis. The so-called meat-grinder wars are of this nature, where two sides sit in trenches with emplaced weapons, and the war is fought for inches of blood stained ground.


The difference is that both sides haven't dug in and there isn't some grand standoff. There are two militias locked in a seemingly eternal war with planets and their populations caught in the middle, subject to the whim of the war and whichever side has "occupancy rights" at the time. A formalized defense to ensure stability of the systems is beneficial to the State, industry and the populations of the planets contained therein.

Tiberious Thessalonia wrote:
In short, a purely defensive war is a war of folly. Far better to seek advantage where one can find it, fight as hard as possible until you have achieved an overwhelming advantage, and then use that advantage to sue for desireable peace.


This isn't a purely defensive war, our part in it is purely defensive. Furthermore, the practice of "suing for desirable peace" has proven to be largely ineffective so long as there remains those in power that seek only the eradication or nullification of the opposing side.

~Malcolm Khross
Silas Vitalia
Doomheim
#54 - 2012-06-11 18:52:12 UTC
Malcolm Khross wrote:
Silas Vitalia wrote:
Notions about "defensive" operations, or "containing" conflict to certain specific systems is a rather quaint notion, don't you think?


No, I don't.

Silas Vitalia wrote:
If you commit to your new allegiance, than commit mind, body, and soul. Dancing half in and out is folly.


It isn't a new allegiance, our allegiance is and always will be to the principles of honor and integrity, the State and the people under its jurisdiction and provision. The State Protectorate is merely a means by which we can continue our operations legally without ramification. We are committed to these principles and these allegiances mind, body and soul.

When I am interested in learning how to serve only myself and pursue "power" above all else, I will ask a Sani Sabik.


Well I'm not sure if you got the memo, but Tibus Heth and The State are not interested in half-measures.

It's one of your people's admirable traits, actually. The State always cuts to the heart of the matter in the most efficient manor possible. Politely when it serves, ruthlessly when required.

Try and be more like that, and less like a Federal politician discussing rules of engagement.




Sabik now, Sabik forever
Tiberious Thessalonia
True Slave Foundations
#55 - 2012-06-11 18:59:55 UTC
Malcolm, that is why you seek overwhelming advantage. It doesn't matter if they want to wipe out your entire side if they cannot actually do it, and to not accept your offer of peace would be suicide to them.

You may define "your side" as broadly or as narrowly as you wish, by the way.
Scherezad
Revenent Defence Corperation
Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
#56 - 2012-06-11 20:57:00 UTC
Graelyn wrote:
Pointing out menstrual cycles is demeaning to women?

You seem to be a bit of a tit.


It is when it is used in a derogatory way, sir.

I am more than my hormones.
Malcolm Khross
Doomheim
#57 - 2012-06-12 00:43:02 UTC
Silas Vitalia wrote:

Try and be more like that, and less like a Federal politician discussing rules of engagement.


I am Caldari.
I am Civire.
I am Malcolm Khross.

I have no intention of being someone you find more acceptable.

~Malcolm Khross
Silas Vitalia
Doomheim
#58 - 2012-06-12 01:18:15 UTC
Malcolm Khross wrote:
Silas Vitalia wrote:

Try and be more like that, and less like a Federal politician discussing rules of engagement.


I am Caldari.
I am Civire.
I am Malcolm Khross.

I have no intention of being someone you find more acceptable.


That's more like it!


Sabik now, Sabik forever
Diana Kim
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#59 - 2012-06-12 09:59:23 UTC
Anja Suorsa wrote:

On what grounds do you question our duty, honor and loyalty? I am genuinely curious.

This was my answer to General Inhonores, and I am sorry if it was somewhat insulting to you.

However, if you would like to turn discussion this way, I will answer. Because your leader has already shown that he is untrustworthy. And, I really would like to know your position, because I am too genuinely curious.

Are you loyal to the Wiyrkomi Corporation, to the Caldari State, and to Tibus Heth?

If you can firmly answer with single YES without any doubts, speculations and conditions, I will question you no more.

Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.

In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.
Malcolm Khross
Doomheim
#60 - 2012-06-12 11:54:28 UTC
Diana Kim wrote:

However, if you would like to turn discussion this way, I will answer. Because your leader has already shown that he is untrustworthy. And, I really would like to know your position, because I am too genuinely curious.


Coming from scum like you, I will consider being "untrustworthy" a compliment.

The Honor Guard's position has been stated clearly time and time again, you're not listening and I'm not repeating it for you, special snowflake.

Diana Kim wrote:
Are you loyal to the Wiyrkomi Corporation, to the Caldari State, and to Tibus Heth?


Our loyalties have been stated clearly time and time again, including in this very thread. Read. Comprehend. I'm not repeating myself again.

Diana Kim wrote:
If you can firmly answer with single YES without any doubts, speculations and conditions, I will question you no more.


Question all you like, we do not answer to you.

~Malcolm Khross