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Did CCP ever fix that tracking exploit? Is this kill impossible?
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LittleTerror
Stygian Systems
#21 - 2012-06-03 13:21:27 UTC
You were 60km away from him, there's your problem...
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#22 - 2012-06-04 15:40:22 UTC
With your MWD off (assuming afterburner off as well) the max transversal you could have had is probably somewhere around 500 m/s.

Angular velocity = transversal velocity / range, so 500 m/s / 60 km = .00833 radians per second

A ******* dreadnought would have hit you.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Doddy
Excidium.
#23 - 2012-06-06 23:17:35 UTC
clearly you not mainaining transveral is a "tracking exploit" by the tornado. Roll
Jack Miton
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#24 - 2012-06-07 02:24:36 UTC
OP has clearly never heard of arty before...

There is no Bob.

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Daemon Ceed
Ice Fire Warriors
#25 - 2012-06-07 21:43:45 UTC
Thought everyone knew that at 50km, you can get damn perfect tracking with arty's, unless the target is moving at an insane rate of speed at a very sharp angle. Think about it. If I have a rifle, and my target is at 800m and it moves even 60m, I don't have to move my rifle much to keep up with it...even if it's coming at me.
Tarryn Nightstorm
Hellstar Towing and Recovery
#26 - 2012-06-08 05:57:12 UTC
Tah'ris Khlador wrote:
uwai223 wrote:
Don't believe the nerds in this thread, they just don't want their tracking exploit fixed...blapping someone at 60km yeah right as if that was possible without cheating. I'd say you petition this and you should probably try to escalate the ticket, as some GMs are in on this I hear.


I can't tell if trolling or just tinfoil hat. Either way, I lol`d.


Sarcasm.

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Gwarlord
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#27 - 2012-06-08 12:53:13 UTC
GreenSeed wrote:
you could have had a better chance to stay alive if your mwd was on, even with the sig penalty, he still couldnt track your speed. just slowly change the orbit till you get closer. also, the MWDs on AFs have a role bonus!


^^ this
Dare Knight
Bandwagoners
#28 - 2012-06-08 15:38:16 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
With your MWD off (assuming afterburner off as well) the max transversal you could have had is probably somewhere around 500 m/s.

Angular velocity = transversal velocity / range, so 500 m/s / 60 km = .00833 radians per second

A ******* dreadnought would have hit you.


I looked at this then lol'd.




...Then I wrote it down on a sticky and posted it to my monitor.

_It's very simple, really. If you see Tengus on scan, they are ratting. If you see a shitload of Tengus, the Russians are blobbing. If you see Proteuses on scan, they will be on top of you in about a second. If you see a shitload of Proteuses, the big boys are having a goodfight. _
M Blanc
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#29 - 2012-06-08 16:41:35 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
With your MWD off (assuming afterburner off as well) the max transversal you could have had is probably somewhere around 500 m/s.

Angular velocity = transversal velocity / range, so 500 m/s / 60 km = .00833 radians per second

A ******* dreadnought would have hit you.

There's this thing called signature radius and this other thing called signature resolution. You should probably go look them up.
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat
Working Stiffs
#30 - 2012-06-09 02:24:04 UTC
M Blanc wrote:
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
With your MWD off (assuming afterburner off as well) the max transversal you could have had is probably somewhere around 500 m/s.

Angular velocity = transversal velocity / range, so 500 m/s / 60 km = .00833 radians per second

A ******* dreadnought would have hit you.

There's this thing called signature radius and this other thing called signature resolution. You should probably go look them up.

You might want to look at the chance to hit formula, and consider what happens when traversal is very low: it essentially eliminates signature radius and signature resolution from the chance to hit formula.

http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Turret_damage
M Blanc
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#31 - 2012-06-09 07:11:05 UTC
Tau Cabalander wrote:
M Blanc wrote:
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
With your MWD off (assuming afterburner off as well) the max transversal you could have had is probably somewhere around 500 m/s.

Angular velocity = transversal velocity / range, so 500 m/s / 60 km = .00833 radians per second

A ******* dreadnought would have hit you.

There's this thing called signature radius and this other thing called signature resolution. You should probably go look them up.

You might want to look at the chance to hit formula, and consider what happens when traversal is very low: it essentially eliminates signature radius and signature resolution from the chance to hit formula.

http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Turret_damage

Let's go through that formula for the example given, shall we? We'll ignore the falloff part of the equation and assume the tornado is within its optimal, and that it's running two tracking speed-scripted TCs and has also popped strong drop because it really really wants to blap dem frigs. That gives it a tracking speed (with RF Fusion, which it'd need to volley properly fit AFs) of 0.025 rad/s. From the example, we have range = 60,000 m and transversal velocity = 500 m/s. The sig res of large turrets is 400 m and the sig radius of a dual MSE jag with two shield rigs and the rigging skill at IV is 53.5 m.

Plug all that into the equation and it turns out that the tornado's chance to hit the intrepid jag under the stated conditions is... 1.6%. Blap blap blap.
SAA Legis
Miners Mine
#32 - 2012-06-09 12:03:36 UTC
...and the last 1% is the wrecking hit for triple damage.
Syndrea Caedrion
Doomheim
#33 - 2012-06-09 15:51:43 UTC
LittleTerror wrote:
You were 60km away from him, there's your problem...


That. Don't care how fast you were going, at 60km, you might as well be sitting still. I assume, though, that you were trying to burn towards/away from Tornado, yeah? If you were trying to shoot him from that distance, you deserve to get popped.

They somehow managed to get every freak and creep in the universe in this one game, and then somehow managed to let them take it over, and then they somehow managed to stick us right smack in the middle.
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#34 - 2012-06-09 18:21:28 UTC
M Blanc wrote:
Tau Cabalander wrote:
M Blanc wrote:
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
With your MWD off (assuming afterburner off as well) the max transversal you could have had is probably somewhere around 500 m/s.

Angular velocity = transversal velocity / range, so 500 m/s / 60 km = .00833 radians per second

A ******* dreadnought would have hit you.

There's this thing called signature radius and this other thing called signature resolution. You should probably go look them up.

You might want to look at the chance to hit formula, and consider what happens when traversal is very low: it essentially eliminates signature radius and signature resolution from the chance to hit formula.

http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Turret_damage

Let's go through that formula for the example given, shall we? We'll ignore the falloff part of the equation and assume the tornado is within its optimal, and that it's running two tracking speed-scripted TCs and has also popped strong drop because it really really wants to blap dem frigs. That gives it a tracking speed (with RF Fusion, which it'd need to volley properly fit AFs) of 0.025 rad/s. From the example, we have range = 60,000 m and transversal velocity = 500 m/s. The sig res of large turrets is 400 m and the sig radius of a dual MSE jag with two shield rigs and the rigging skill at IV is 53.5 m.

Plug all that into the equation and it turns out that the tornado's chance to hit the intrepid jag under the stated conditions is... 1.6%. Blap blap blap.

That's assuming perfect transversal.
Staying out at 60 km, even with perfect transversal, is still really dumb because sooner or later he will hit you (and you can't hit him from that distance), and for a 1% chance to hit if he hits you at all it will always be a wrecking shot. Take the Tornado's massive alpha and multiply it by 3, and that's what you'll get hit with.

Let's say you're approaching the Tornado at a 30 degree angle relative to the radial, which is about what you want to be doing if you were to approach a Tornado under these conditions.
Your ship's total velocity is the hypotenuse of a right triangle, with the radial velocity component as the adjacent side and the transversal velocity component as the opposite side.
Thus sin(30 deg.) = transversal velocity / total velocity
500 m/s * sin(30 deg.) = 250 m/s transversal.
Using the same numbers as given above, this comes out to about a 34% chance to hit, with these hits (excluding wrecking hits) doing anywhere from 51% to 84% damage.

What if you were to approach him with your microwarpdrive on?
Assuming perfect nav skills, your speed then increases to 2688 m/s, which means a 1344 m/s transversal. With a limited 1 MN MWD (let's assume you were cheap and didn't fit a deadspace MWD as many AF pilots do) your signature blooms to 183 m. Because of the assault frigate's awesome role bonus, this same approach with your MWD on actually decreases the chance to hit to around 7%. With a deadspace (let's say Coreli A-type) MWD this decreases to about 3%. You're also decreasing your range much more quickly, meaning only his first volley will be at that distance and subsequent volleys will have to contend with even higher angular velocities.

tl;dr: Assault ships have a role bonus, you should use it.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Skex Relbore
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#35 - 2012-06-11 06:23:25 UTC
It's not an exploit if the mechanic is working as intended.
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