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has anyone offered protection for hulks from gankers?
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Blastcaps Madullier
Handsome Millionaire Playboys
Sedition.
#21 - 2012-06-09 03:08:38 UTC
Moonasha wrote:
but you can't really protect from alpha besides fitting a tank


tanked hulk vs T2 gank fit cata even tanked hulk is dead
Corebin Dallas
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#22 - 2012-06-09 04:33:46 UTC
For along time while I enjoyed ganking I also thought that there really wasn't much a miner could do if I wanted to kill them. But recently I have started to see trends of miners keeping Instacanes and ECM ships with their miners. I like to use catalysts for this work and if you can pop or jam that catalyst after one or two vollies(very doable if you are paying attention) I just lost my gank ship and your hulk is free to warp away.

Now yes if they want you dead they will get you, either by bringing Alpha or just more cheap ships then you can knock out. But this is more work and more expensive on my part. I'm pretty lazy and so I have started to avoid those groups for now until I run out of easy game.

So take this as a ganker who used to have sympathy for miners even thou I enjoyed killing them. I now realize many of you guys are just lazy and want your isk without effort. If you put even a little bit of effort into mining instead of doing it afk or a maxed isk/hr setup you might be safer.
Richard Desturned
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#23 - 2012-06-09 04:52:26 UTC
Marlona Sky wrote:
You can't protect Hulks from gankers.


sure you can

npc alts have no opinions worth consideration
Makkal Hanaya
Revenent Defence Corperation
#24 - 2012-06-09 05:53:32 UTC
Destiny Corrupted wrote:
...minimum 100 million ISK per hour.

Shocked

Render unto Khanid the things which are Khanid's; and unto God the things that are God's.
Aooz
Doomheim
#25 - 2012-06-09 06:01:24 UTC
Think about it

The bodyguard would be making less than a miner and watching over a miner is even more boring than mining.
ashley Eoner
#26 - 2012-06-09 06:02:43 UTC
Titan Diablo wrote:
figured they'd give a percentage to protect their investments by hiring corps for protection. or are they all that greedy that they'd rather eat the loss of a hulk?
Yup I protect my miners by giving them a tank RR, Buffs, and ECM drones. Yield drops but solo gankers lose interest quickly. Probably should make another alt and set it up with a tackle so I could kill one if they try.
Jorma Morkkis
State War Academy
Caldari State
#27 - 2012-06-09 06:13:29 UTC
Corebin Dallas wrote:
So take this as a ganker who used to have sympathy for miners even thou I enjoyed killing them. I now realize many of you guys are just lazy and want your isk without effort. If you put even a little bit of effort into mining instead of doing it afk or a maxed isk/hr setup you might be safer.


No effort... blah blah. Still can't find any mining Rokhs on killboards.

When you guys are running around I keep my Hulk in hangar or mine in mission space. Even though your Catalyst would have hard time destroying it.
Aurelius Valentius
Valentius Corporation
Valentius Corporation Alliance
#28 - 2012-06-09 06:13:43 UTC
ashley Eoner wrote:
Titan Diablo wrote:
figured they'd give a percentage to protect their investments by hiring corps for protection. or are they all that greedy that they'd rather eat the loss of a hulk?
Yup I protect my miners by giving them a tank RR, Buffs, and ECM drones. Yield drops but solo gankers lose interest quickly. Probably should make another alt and set it up with a tackle so I could kill one if they try.


Yea, someone finally said it to the clueless "gun = answer" crew.

RR Shield Buff your ships = Merc = Neut Repper Corp = ISK for Buff, also fit up 1 orca with Shield Buff, since only one can buff mining, etc...or use a Cmd, BC, or such... sheesh... people, learn the game.
Richard Desturned
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#29 - 2012-06-09 06:18:14 UTC
Blastcaps Madullier wrote:
tanked hulk vs T2 gank fit cata even tanked hulk is dead


A small shield booster doesn't make a tank, hope this helps

npc alts have no opinions worth consideration
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#30 - 2012-06-09 06:18:19 UTC
Destiny Corrupted wrote:

Let's see...Any single person I play with has the capacity to run some incursions, or go into a wormhole, and make at the minimum 100 million ISK per hour.

Alternatively, for a standard high-sec war contract, the fee is usually 400-600 million weekly. In my experience, asking for more simply removes all chance of sealing a contract, unless you're being hired by a strong entity with specific goals. I mean, I've done contracts worth 2-3 billion a week, and I rarely bring more than 4-5 people on a job.

Let's assume four people actively take part in the contract. That's 150 million, at most, per person. Each of these people puts in at least double-digit hours every week chasing/camping/fighting war targets. How much is that per hour now? Now, let's add on the additional risk of losing ships in combat...

So, how much should we charge a carebear outfit per hour to guard a mining op that consists of, say, four Hulks and an Orca? Or are you also saying we should do this for free, because since we're pvpers, staring at the screen and doing nothing productive while guarding some whiny roid-suckers is its own reward?

Edit: keep in mind, we're not 2-month-old players in frigates learning the ropes. We actually ensure success for our employers. Sure, you might hire some local players to sit around in some cruisers, and fail miserably when they are unable to take out even one hostile destroyer before CONCORD does. I am talking about multiple T2 logistics, links, dedicated ECM burst Blackbirds, instant-lock 1400 Tornados, et cetera.


Hey, in a PvP game, this is market PvP for you. There's always someone undercutting you. The guys I talk about use interceptors, HACs, Tornados, Logistics.

Also, exactly like some 0.0 alliance subsidizes suicide gankers, other organizations subsidize protection mercs.

Don't think Goons invented something new in this regard.

Ah, there are some players who give away T2 (tanked) mining ships as well.

EvE Online portal | EvE markets tutorials
ashley Eoner
#31 - 2012-06-09 06:26:42 UTC
Aurelius Valentius wrote:
ashley Eoner wrote:
Titan Diablo wrote:
figured they'd give a percentage to protect their investments by hiring corps for protection. or are they all that greedy that they'd rather eat the loss of a hulk?
Yup I protect my miners by giving them a tank RR, Buffs, and ECM drones. Yield drops but solo gankers lose interest quickly. Probably should make another alt and set it up with a tackle so I could kill one if they try.


Yea, someone finally said it to the clueless "gun = answer" crew.

RR Shield Buff your ships = Merc = Neut Repper Corp = ISK for Buff, also fit up 1 orca with Shield Buff, since only one can buff mining, etc...or use a Cmd, BC, or such... sheesh... people, learn the game.
Can you swap out ships (orca) while someone is firing on you?
Richard Desturned
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#32 - 2012-06-09 06:30:37 UTC
probably, but it involves paying attention, a daunting task for the average hulk miner

npc alts have no opinions worth consideration
Josef Djugashvilis
#33 - 2012-06-09 06:48:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Josef Djugashvilis
Moonasha wrote:
How do you protect against alpha? I think high sec ganking is awesome, but you can't really protect from alpha besides fitting a tank (which many are too stupid to do). I think low sec mining with a fleet guarding the operation would be cool as hell and stimulate pvp, but miners are too carebearish to venture there.


There is no fit which can prevent a well planned alpha strike.

This is not a signature.
Jorma Morkkis
State War Academy
Caldari State
#34 - 2012-06-09 06:49:22 UTC
ashley Eoner wrote:
Can you swap out ships (orca) while someone is firing on you?


You can't board a ship from Orca's SMB if you're targeted by a player or NPC.
Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
Senpai's Afterschool Anime and Gaming Club
#35 - 2012-06-09 07:17:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Destiny Corrupted
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
Hey, in a PvP game, this is market PvP for you. There's always someone undercutting you. The guys I talk about use interceptors, HACs, Tornados, Logistics.

That's fine and all, but you haven't mentioned how much you pay them.

Pre-Reply Edit: Because this is the internet and people like making claims that aren't true as long as they fit their agendas.

Also, the lower the figure you quote, the stronger the argument in my next reply will be. But if you quote a number that's too high, then you won't have an argument at all. Just something to think about.

I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:

https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#36 - 2012-06-09 07:32:59 UTC
Destiny Corrupted wrote:
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
Hey, in a PvP game, this is market PvP for you. There's always someone undercutting you. The guys I talk about use interceptors, HACs, Tornados, Logistics.

That's fine and all, but you haven't mentioned how much you pay them.

Pre-Reply Edit: Because this is the internet and people like making claims that aren't true as long as they fit their agendas.

Also, the lower the figure you quote, the stronger the argument in my next reply will be. But if you quote a number that's too high, then you won't have an argument at all. Just something to think about.


Only once I divulged 1 number and it was for one specific 3rd party service made by me, not by others.
I have a long standing tradition of never betraying the privacy of my customers or associates.

EvE Online portal | EvE markets tutorials
Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
Senpai's Afterschool Anime and Gaming Club
#37 - 2012-06-09 07:38:51 UTC
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
Destiny Corrupted wrote:
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
Hey, in a PvP game, this is market PvP for you. There's always someone undercutting you. The guys I talk about use interceptors, HACs, Tornados, Logistics.

That's fine and all, but you haven't mentioned how much you pay them.

Pre-Reply Edit: Because this is the internet and people like making claims that aren't true as long as they fit their agendas.

Also, the lower the figure you quote, the stronger the argument in my next reply will be. But if you quote a number that's too high, then you won't have an argument at all. Just something to think about.


Only once I divulged 1 number and it was for one specific 3rd party service made by me, not by others.
I have a long standing tradition of never betraying the privacy of my customers or associates.

lol okay.

I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:

https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#38 - 2012-06-09 07:43:49 UTC
Though, I can confirm I am one of those giving away free exhumers P. Because I can.

EvE Online portal | EvE markets tutorials
Singoth
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#39 - 2012-06-09 07:45:35 UTC
Step 1: get a covetor, not Hulk
Step 2: mine
Step 3: get ROI within 1 hour
Step 4: ???
Step 5: PROFIT!!!

Easy, just expect to die at some point.

Less yappin', more zappin'!
Chokichi Ozuwara
Perkone
Caldari State
#40 - 2012-06-09 07:46:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Chokichi Ozuwara
Because Concord is there, miners expect the threat of Concord retaliation to be a deterrent. It's not just that miners are cheap and want it all, but Concord provides a false sense of security, as any government monopoly does.

We'd be better off without sec status and Concord. It would force players to work together, and to find ways to protect ops, define safe zones, and encourage better wars.

From what I understand, miners are actually safer and more profitable in null, where security is provided by the group holding Sov, instead of some arbitrary game mechanic like Concord.

The difference between null/low and hisec, is that security can be proactive. In hisec, all you have is reactive security. Not much good if Concord kills a ganker after you have already lost your Hulk. The punishment does nothing wrt restitution for the victim.

If CCP would remove Concord and improve the contract system, there would be a lot more ingame innovation.

Tears will be shed and pants will need to be changed all round.
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