These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Ships & Modules

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

Apocalypse cannot fit T2 Tachyon
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Lunkwill Khashour
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#41 - 2012-06-08 08:20:23 UTC
Veryez wrote:

Tachyons are designed to be in a league of their own, period. They are a league above 425's and 1400's


Going by the majority vote: http://eve-kill.net/?a=top20 , tachyons are in a league of their own: one where no one is playing.
Headerman1
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#42 - 2012-06-08 08:23:36 UTC
0/10
Cardano Firesnake
Fire Bullet Inc
#43 - 2012-06-08 10:26:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Cardano Firesnake
Lunkwill Khashour wrote:
Veryez wrote:

Tachyons are designed to be in a league of their own, period. They are a league above 425's and 1400's


Going by the majority vote: http://eve-kill.net/?a=top20 , tachyons are in a league of their own: one where no one is playing.


Oh yes it is interestening to see that 1400mm and 425mm Rail Gun are in the Top 20 and that there is no Tachyon.
It seems that these guns are simply useless :-).
Perharps because they are too difficult to fit, perharps because they are not so excellent that people could say.
I do not know if the problem is the guns or the ammunition...

Posted - 2010.07.01 11:24:00 - [4] Erase learning skills, remap all SP. That's all.
Bouh Revetoile
In Wreck we thrust
#44 - 2012-06-08 12:33:40 UTC
Cardano Firesnake wrote:


Oh yes it is interestening to see that 1400mm and 425mm Rail Gun are in the Top 20 and that there is no Tachyon.
It seems that these guns are simply useless :-).
Perharps because they are too difficult to fit, perharps because they are not so excellent that people could say.
I do not know if the problem is the guns or the ammunition...


Perhaps because pulse with scorch already hit at 70km and hence there is no need for a long range weapon for amarr ?

If some FC start to consider a doctrine to fight at 100km and want amarr, then you will start to see beam or tachyon used ; for any lower range, there is scorch.

Problem of beam or tachyon not being used is caused by scorch, not by their fitting requirement.
Lin-Young Borovskova
Doomheim
#45 - 2012-06-08 12:42:03 UTC
Cardano Firesnake wrote:
Lunkwill Khashour wrote:
Veryez wrote:

Tachyons are designed to be in a league of their own, period. They are a league above 425's and 1400's


Going by the majority vote: http://eve-kill.net/?a=top20 , tachyons are in a league of their own: one where no one is playing.


Oh yes it is interestening to see that 1400mm and 425mm Rail Gun are in the Top 20 and that there is no Tachyon.
It seems that these guns are simply useless :-).
Perharps because they are too difficult to fit, perharps because they are not so excellent that people could say.
I do not know if the problem is the guns or the ammunition...



The problem is players.

Tachyon is +20% dmg for almost same range than Rails and a better tracking. Now try to explain to someone that you don't need to fit 8 hard points with those to get a much BETTER DPS TRACKING and RAGE and the only thing they can do is cry when for most of those they don't even have the required skills on top.

Hybrids AWU 4 it's not an option, 5 it's not an option when you want T2 hulls properly fitted with highest tier weapons, if you don't you have to compensate your fitting abilities with faction/dead space mods witch always leads to tears.

Lasers usually have cap bonus, however how many have related ship skills up to 5, gunnery to 5?
Yes those are extremely hard to fit, but a 20%+dps per gun making his alpha the best after Projectiles and better dps than rails technically.

If people want to fly omgfpwn buttons "I win" go angel and officer/dead space fit them.

brb
Veryez
Hidden Agenda
Deep Space Engineering
#46 - 2012-06-08 13:03:04 UTC
Cardano Firesnake wrote:
Lunkwill Khashour wrote:
Veryez wrote:

Tachyons are designed to be in a league of their own, period. They are a league above 425's and 1400's


Going by the majority vote: http://eve-kill.net/?a=top20 , tachyons are in a league of their own: one where no one is playing.


Oh yes it is interestening to see that 1400mm and 425mm Rail Gun are in the Top 20 and that there is no Tachyon.
It seems that these guns are simply useless :-).
Perharps because they are too difficult to fit, perharps because they are not so excellent that people could say.
I do not know if the problem is the guns or the ammunition...


I didn't realize you were trying to discuss the usefullness of the weapon, you asked why you have to fit an RCU to put them on an Apoc. The answer is they are the biggest Battleship guns in the game. They are bigger than 425's and 1400's. An Apoc has no issues fitting 8xMega Beams, which are the equivalent guns to 1400's and 425's.

If CCP wanted to put 1600's or 500's in the game, then by all means they should have difficult fitting requirements. Besides stop complaining, Amarr have 3 very useful battleships, and the buffs lasers recieved a few years ago made them very useful. The geddon is a fantastic DPS ship, the Apoc actually has 3 bonuses (look at the boosts it got over the years) and the Abaddon can field a great tank or DPS platform if it desires. Only since the advent of on-grid warping have 1400's become valuable in fleets, before that hybrids and lasers were king. Next time you siege a POS in a Battleship, try it with a laser ship, then come back here and tell us how they are.....
Danny John-Peter
Blue Canary
Watch This
#47 - 2012-06-08 14:30:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Danny John-Peter
Sigh, firstly, Apoc Snipers are used as counter Tier 3 work for armour fleets regularly, generally they look like this.


[Apocalypse, Sniperpoc]
Heat Sink II
Heat Sink II
1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I
Adaptive Nano Plating II
Adaptive Nano Plating II
Damage Control II
Heat Sink II

Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range Script
Sensor Booster II, Targeting Range Script
Small Capacitor Booster II, Navy Cap Booster 400
Prototype 100MN MicroWarpdrive I

Tachyon Beam Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
Tachyon Beam Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
Tachyon Beam Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
Tachyon Beam Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
Tachyon Beam Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
Tachyon Beam Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
Tachyon Beam Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
[empty high slot]

Large Ancillary Current Router I
Large Trimark Armor Pump I
Large Trimark Armor Pump I

Thats 600+ Dps with a Long range weapon, that is mad bro.

No its not in the top 20 on Eve Kill, but thats because Alpha Maels, Rail Rokhs and Tengus/Drakes are FOTM right now, its not "cus lazers are ****" its because everybody is sucking up to the big teat of the shield tank at this moment in time.

Now quit your bitching, Tachyons are awesome, there also hard as **** to fit, onoes.

\Thread
Reppyk
The Black Shell
#48 - 2012-06-08 14:57:03 UTC
Danny John-Peter wrote:
[Apocalypse, Sniperpoc]Tachyon Beam Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
[empty high slot]
This is a bad fit and you should be ashamed.

[Apocalypse, anti oracle]
Damage Control II
1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I
Heat Sink II
Heat Sink II
Heat Sink II
Adaptive Nano Plating II
Adaptive Nano Plating II

Prototype 100MN MicroWarpdrive I
Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range Script
Small Capacitor Booster II, Navy Cap Booster 400
Sensor Booster II, Scan Resolution Script

Mega Beam Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
Mega Beam Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
Mega Beam Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
Mega Beam Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
Mega Beam Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
Mega Beam Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
Mega Beam Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
Mega Beam Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L

Large Trimark Armor Pump I
Large Trimark Armor Pump I
Large Ancillary Current Router I

I AM SPACE CAPTAIN REPPYK. BEWARE.

Proud co-admin of frugu.net, a French fansite about EVE !
Danny John-Peter
Blue Canary
Watch This
#49 - 2012-06-08 14:58:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Danny John-Peter
Reppyk wrote:
Danny John-Peter wrote:
[Apocalypse, Sniperpoc]Tachyon Beam Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
[empty high slot]
This is a bad fit and you should be ashamed.

[Apocalypse, anti oracle]
Damage Control II
1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I
Heat Sink II
Heat Sink II
Heat Sink II
Adaptive Nano Plating II
Adaptive Nano Plating II

Prototype 100MN MicroWarpdrive I
Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range Script
Small Capacitor Booster II, Navy Cap Booster 400
Sensor Booster II, Scan Resolution Script

Mega Beam Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
Mega Beam Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
Mega Beam Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
Mega Beam Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
Mega Beam Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
Mega Beam Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
Mega Beam Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
Mega Beam Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L

Large Trimark Armor Pump I
Large Trimark Armor Pump I
Large Ancillary Current Router I


Onoes and empty high slot, lets post one with similar DPS, less Alpha and Range, but its better, because it doesnt have an empty high slot.
Reppyk
The Black Shell
#50 - 2012-06-08 15:03:48 UTC
Danny John-Peter wrote:
Onoes and empty high slot, lets post one with similar DPS, less Alpha and Range, but its better, because it doesnt have an empty high slot.
601dps vs 641 isnt that "similar".
But let's talk about range : 52+32 vs 47+26 (or with Aurora : 188+32 vs 171+26. Ah it's not similar, right ?
You're right about the alpha, but bewteen a low alpha fit and a low alpha fit... Yes It's not the point.

I AM SPACE CAPTAIN REPPYK. BEWARE.

Proud co-admin of frugu.net, a French fansite about EVE !
Danny John-Peter
Blue Canary
Watch This
#51 - 2012-06-08 15:08:04 UTC
I prefer the extra range tbh, and how are you getting 601, im getting 627.
Reppyk
The Black Shell
#52 - 2012-06-08 15:12:00 UTC
You forgot a drone maybe ?

I AM SPACE CAPTAIN REPPYK. BEWARE.

Proud co-admin of frugu.net, a French fansite about EVE !
Danny John-Peter
Blue Canary
Watch This
#53 - 2012-06-08 15:17:40 UTC
Reppyk wrote:
You forgot a drone maybe ?


Herp a derp a derp
Tobiaz
Spacerats
#54 - 2012-06-08 16:19:33 UTC
Cardano Firesnake wrote:
Well why creating a ship that cannot fit its natural weapons?
You can easily put 8 tachyon on an Oracle.


Exactly why he Tier3 BC are so horribly unbalanced. X

Operation WRITE DOWN ALL THE THINGS!!!  Check out the list at http://bit.ly/wdatt Collecting and compiling all fixes and ideas for EVE. Looking for more editors!
Lunkwill Khashour
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#55 - 2012-06-08 16:33:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Lunkwill Khashour
Veryez wrote:

I didn't realize you were trying to discuss the usefullness of the weapon, you asked why you have to fit an RCU to put them on an Apoc. The answer is they are the biggest Battleship guns in the game. They are bigger than 425's and 1400's. An Apoc has no issues fitting 8xMega Beams

The Apoc won't even fit 8 mega beams. The topic title may aswell be 'Apocalypse cannot fit T2 mega beams'

Veryez wrote:

the Apoc actually has 3 bonuses (look at the boosts it got over the years) and the Abaddon can field a great tank or DPS platform if it desires. Only since the advent of on-grid warping have 1400's become valuable in fleets, before that hybrids and lasers were king. Next time you siege a POS in a Battleship, try it with a laser ship, then come back here and tell us how they are.....

the Apoc with 3 boni still doesn't see any use except for the odd pos bash where a cap stable, ammoless gun platform might be needed and no caps are available.

I'ld say 1400's have become valuable since the Mael and that, apart from the 1400s, long range sniping has been dead since on grid probing/warping.

Danny John-Peter,
I didn't know apoc's were anti-tier3's now. It sounds actually interesting. Could you show me a fleet fight or battlereport where they were (succesfully) used in this way?
Veryez
Hidden Agenda
Deep Space Engineering
#56 - 2012-06-08 19:43:06 UTC
Lunkwill Khashour wrote:
the Apoc with 3 boni still doesn't see any use except for the odd pos bash where a cap stable, ammoless gun platform might be needed and no caps are available.


How exactly do you think we take down POS's in wormholes?
Karash Amerius
The Seven Shadows
Scotch And Tea.
#57 - 2012-06-08 21:35:11 UTC
Tachs are fine. No one really uses them anymore for their purpose, extreme sniping. While they work fine on glass cannons like geddons and baddons, I would prefer to out range everything.

[Apocalypse, Ex Sniper]
Reactor Control Unit II
Power Diagnostic System II
Tracking Enhancer II
Tracking Enhancer II
Heat Sink II
Heat Sink II
Heat Sink II

Sensor Booster II, Targeting Range Script
Sensor Booster II, Targeting Range Script
Sensor Booster II, Targeting Range Script
Sensor Booster II, Scan Resolution Script

Tachyon Beam Laser II, Aurora L
Tachyon Beam Laser II, Aurora L
Tachyon Beam Laser II, Aurora L
Tachyon Beam Laser II, Aurora L
Tachyon Beam Laser II, Aurora L
Tachyon Beam Laser II, Aurora L
Tachyon Beam Laser II, Aurora L
Tachyon Beam Laser II, Aurora L

Large Ancillary Current Router I
Large Energy Collision Accelerator I
Large Energy Locus Coordinator I

DPS: 413 VOL: 2841 (not awesome)

With this fit, you can sit 231km from target and be within optimal. Your targeting range is 249km (max). If you prep the battlefield with the right tacticals you can dance around a fleet with impunity.

Karash Amerius Operative, Sutoka
Ovo Mole
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#58 - 2012-08-08 12:59:25 UTC
Sorry for the noob questions, new guy here.

I've always considered aiming for a sniper progression in this game, in terms of skill planning, etc. However, the main usage of of a sniping ship for me would be, at first, to try to solo L4.

I've seen the proposed fits in this thread, each one giving different degrees of cap sustainability, DPS and HP. My question is: when considering using the tachys for sniping, and taking into account that according to this thread you need to make a "glass-cannon" to have them fitted, is this only viable for small-gang scenarios, or are you also able to use them for solo L4?
If yes, how would you maintain the 231km range from fast frigates/cruisers that often appear in missions, or how would you get away from them when the mission starts with you in the middle of enemy ships?

Thanks for reading
Takeshi Yamato
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#59 - 2012-08-08 13:38:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Takeshi Yamato
Danny John-Peter wrote:
No its not in the top 20 on Eve Kill, but thats because Alpha Maels, Rail Rokhs and Tengus/Drakes are FOTM right now, its not "cus lazers are ****" its because everybody is sucking up to the big teat of the shield tank at this moment in time.


Artillery has been the "flavor of the month" every month since their alpha was improved.

Railguns were improved 8 months ago and have a solid place in the top 20 since then. Should we chalk this up to "flavor of the month" 8 times in a row, too?

Beam lasers have been absent from the top 20 for a long time despite the overwhelming popularity of shield tanks which they are best against, and despite the top 20 showing that sniper weapons are in demand and getting kills.

But nevermind, let's not get reality in the way of your fantasy.
Airto TLA
Acorn's Wonder Bars
#60 - 2012-08-08 15:58:15 UTC
Tachs are cool, and are probaly the best overall gun, but nobody wants the best overall gun, they want the one that does the job they are currently trying to right now the best. For sniping, you want alpha so lg artillery is the best. If you want to hold a spot and slug pulse lasers (slight damage and large fitting/traking advantage over tachs), armor hacs pulse lasers, sheild swarms autocannons, drake blob heavey missles, and max gank Blasters

The amazing thing about the highest killing wep list is the number of repeats - where the tech 2 type of the wep is tops then its meta 3 and 4 variant or caliibre downgrade is also on the list.

So very few people use beam lasers, large autocannons, Cruise/Torpedoes, HAMS. That is about half the cruiser and up class armament.

I am still amazed no one has figured out away to make the Tach oracle work in vast numbers, it would seem to work similar to railguns, .