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Indefinite Hulkageddon now including T1 Barges?
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Mr Sato
Bubbles Bubbles Bubbles
#1 - 2012-06-08 08:18:25 UTC
The 100 Mill handouts, currently rewarded for killing Exhumers, could be incorporating also T1 Barges thought for a lesser reward:

Surce: https://twitter.com/#TheMittani

"The Mittani ‏@TheMittani
I'm thinking about adding a junior-league #hulkageddon tier for t1 barges, something like 25-50m per 10. Thoughts? #tweetfleet #eveonline"

If it turns out to become a reality, it could affect the demand for Covetors (which actually have increased in price slightly where I reside). So my fellow indy players, new opportunities ahead =)
Kara Books
Deal with IT.
#2 - 2012-06-08 09:21:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Kara Books
Mr Sato wrote:
The 100 Mill handouts, currently rewarded for killing Exhumers, could be incorporating also T1 Barges thought for a lesser reward:

Surce: https://twitter.com/#TheMittani

"The Mittani ‏@TheMittani
I'm thinking about adding a junior-league #hulkageddon tier for t1 barges, something like 25-50m per 10. Thoughts? #tweetfleet #eveonline"

If it turns out to become a reality, it could affect the demand for Covetors (which actually have increased in price slightly where I reside). So my fellow indy players, new opportunities ahead =)


Starting to sound desperate, just saying that's what it sounds like.


(edit part:)
forgot to write edit the first edit, 2nd edit was to edit my edit, you see what I did here right?
Take this advice.

Take a break until some major event happens, Tripple the payout and limit your offensive on hisec astroids for short bursts of time.
shar'ra matcevsovski
Doomheim
#3 - 2012-06-08 09:46:46 UTC  |  Edited by: shar'ra matcevsovski
Mr Sato wrote:

If it turns out to become a reality, it could affect the demand for Covetors (which actually have increased in price slightly where I reside). So my fellow indy players, new opportunities ahead =)


I dont want to kill your illusion but you do know that any build hulk requires at least one covetor aswell, right? So it rly doesnt matter if people build 10.000 Covetors or 10.000 Hulks, the volume will still be the same. So it CANNOT affect the demand on Covetors at all.

good luck with thatTwisted

shar'ra phone home
Bugsy VanHalen
Society of lost Souls
#4 - 2012-06-08 13:21:53 UTC
shar'ra matcevsovski wrote:
Mr Sato wrote:

If it turns out to become a reality, it could affect the demand for Covetors (which actually have increased in price slightly where I reside). So my fellow indy players, new opportunities ahead =)


I dont want to kill your illusion but you do know that any build hulk requires at least one covetor aswell, right? So it rly doesnt matter if people build 10.000 Covetors or 10.000 Hulks, the volume will still be the same. So it CANNOT affect the demand on Covetors at all.

good luck with thatTwisted

Except the many miners are now buying covetors right now to avoid losing hulks. if covetors are added to hulkagedon rewards then the number of overall ship losses will go up, resulting in higher demand. The demand right now is one covetor for every hulk + the covetors sold. If the demand for covetors increases due to increased covetor ganking than the demand will go up, regardless of whether it is hulks or covetors selling.

This may atually cause some to switch bak to using hulks as they are harder to gank than covetors. It makes me wonder how many failed ganks there are compared to each successful gank? Even hulks are very easy to gank but there are a lot of fail gankers out there.
shar'ra matcevsovski
Doomheim
#5 - 2012-06-08 14:22:39 UTC  |  Edited by: shar'ra matcevsovski
Bugsy VanHalen wrote:

If the demand for covetors increases due to increased covetor ganking than the demand will go up, regardless of whether it is hulks or covetors selling.
.


that makes no sense, sorry.


IF Miners buy Covetors instead of Hulks now, producers there for will sell less hulks (and require less covetors), so the total number stays the same.

what your eventually implying is that just because there is one more ship type on the ganklist, the number of overall shipganks will increase too, wich is not the case imho.

BTW. according to the ingame charts the number of purchased covetors (Jita) kept going down for the last 3 month.

shar'ra phone home
Dave stark
#6 - 2012-06-08 14:29:15 UTC
shar'ra matcevsovski wrote:
Bugsy VanHalen wrote:

If the demand for covetors increases due to increased covetor ganking than the demand will go up, regardless of whether it is hulks or covetors selling.
.


that makes no sense, sorry.


IF Miners buy Covetors instead of Hulks now, producers there for will sell less hulks (and require less covetors), so the total number stays the same.

what your eventually implying is that just because there is one more ship type on the ganklist, the number of overall shipganks will increase too, wich is not the case imho.

BTW. according to the ingame charts the number of purchased covetors (Jita) kept going down for the last 3 month.



actually, it does make sense that the amount of covetors will go up.

if rewards are given for ganking covetors people will be more likely to target them. more of them being blown up means more needs to be replaced. it doesn't matter that if you fly a covetor or a hulk a covetor went in to the mix to make it. more being blown up means more need to be replaced.

over all if more ships are destroyed more will be replaced, meaning more will have to be produced.
Pinstar Colton
Sweet Asteroid Acres
#7 - 2012-06-08 14:35:47 UTC
The argument about Hulk vs. Covetor prices is there, but misses the point of hulkageddon.

While it may be true that the goons hold one or more hulk/mack BPOs and it is true that they hold a great deal of the tech, which goes into hulks/macks... increasing prices on them is not the real reason for permageddon.

Look at what is happening to mineral prices. It is becoming less and less safe to mine in high sec. If they add T1 barges to the list, that will serve to only push them higher.

The goons are unlikely to directly benefit from the increased price/volume of covetors/retrievers since those are easily available as BPOs and anyone can manufacture them...and they don't use tech.

No what this is about is the mineral prices. The goons control vast swaths of null space. Space that can be used by their own hulks quite safely. They have the numbers, skills and organization to devour asteroids in null and the logistics to ship it to high sec.

Why are they doing this? They've stated that they know their cartel on Tech will eventually end when ring mining comes out. They are merely diversifying their income streams in anticipation of that. They earn more from selling minerals at inflated prices than they pay out in hulkageddon bounties, so making it permanent is a logical business decision.


Granted, this is all just theory. I have no access to the goon's finances in any form, nor do I have any contacts in the swarm or any other source of inside info to confirm or deny this. I'm also neither praising nor raging about the goons (Please don't turn this thread into a Goons rock/Goons suck thread!). This is merely my personal observation of their activities and possible motives behind hulkageddon.

In the cat-and-mouse game that is low sec, there is no shame in learning to be a better mouse.

Victoria Sin
Doomheim
#8 - 2012-06-08 15:02:12 UTC
Pinstar Colton wrote:
The argument about Hulk vs. Covetor prices is there, but misses the point of hulkageddon.

While it may be true that the goons hold one or more hulk/mack BPOs and it is true that they hold a great deal of the tech, which goes into hulks/macks... increasing prices on them is not the real reason for permageddon.

Look at what is happening to mineral prices. It is becoming less and less safe to mine in high sec. If they add T1 barges to the list, that will serve to only push them higher.

The goons are unlikely to directly benefit from the increased price/volume of covetors/retrievers since those are easily available as BPOs and anyone can manufacture them...and they don't use tech.

No what this is about is the mineral prices. The goons control vast swaths of null space. Space that can be used by their own hulks quite safely. They have the numbers, skills and organization to devour asteroids in null and the logistics to ship it to high sec.

Why are they doing this? They've stated that they know their cartel on Tech will eventually end when ring mining comes out. They are merely diversifying their income streams in anticipation of that. They earn more from selling minerals at inflated prices than they pay out in hulkageddon bounties, so making it permanent is a logical business decision.


Granted, this is all just theory. I have no access to the goon's finances in any form, nor do I have any contacts in the swarm or any other source of inside info to confirm or deny this. I'm also neither praising nor raging about the goons (Please don't turn this thread into a Goons rock/Goons suck thread!). This is merely my personal observation of their activities and possible motives behind hulkageddon.


I can't believe you actually bothered to spend time trying to work it all out. Get a job!!!
shar'ra matcevsovski
Doomheim
#9 - 2012-06-08 15:18:09 UTC  |  Edited by: shar'ra matcevsovski
Dave stark wrote:

if rewards are given for ganking covetors people will be more likely to target them. more of them being blown up means more needs to be replaced.


yea and for each Covetor there is one less hulk getting purchased (on a long run at least)


Dave stark wrote:

it doesn't matter that if you fly a covetor or a hulk a covetor went in to the mix to make it.


of course it matters when the item that you are replacing is also the reason why covetors are needed at all.

Dave stark wrote:

over all if more ships are destroyed more will be replaced, meaning more will have to be produced.


would be true, if adding one more ship type to the list, would mean that more ganks would happen, wich is not the case, or not a logical assumption in this case at least. It only means that now Covetors and hlks getting blown up, not that there will be more people ganking than before.

and besides the theoretical aspect, there are not more covetors getting purchased than before, rather less (3 month chart).

shar'ra phone home
Skorpynekomimi
#10 - 2012-06-08 15:51:03 UTC
Pinstar Colton wrote:
The argument about Hulk vs. Covetor prices is there, but misses the point of hulkageddon.

While it may be true that the goons hold one or more hulk/mack BPOs and it is true that they hold a great deal of the tech, which goes into hulks/macks... increasing prices on them is not the real reason for permageddon.

Look at what is happening to mineral prices. It is becoming less and less safe to mine in high sec. If they add T1 barges to the list, that will serve to only push them higher.

The goons are unlikely to directly benefit from the increased price/volume of covetors/retrievers since those are easily available as BPOs and anyone can manufacture them...and they don't use tech.

No what this is about is the mineral prices. The goons control vast swaths of null space. Space that can be used by their own hulks quite safely. They have the numbers, skills and organization to devour asteroids in null and the logistics to ship it to high sec.

Why are they doing this? They've stated that they know their cartel on Tech will eventually end when ring mining comes out. They are merely diversifying their income streams in anticipation of that. They earn more from selling minerals at inflated prices than they pay out in hulkageddon bounties, so making it permanent is a logical business decision.


Granted, this is all just theory. I have no access to the goon's finances in any form, nor do I have any contacts in the swarm or any other source of inside info to confirm or deny this. I'm also neither praising nor raging about the goons (Please don't turn this thread into a Goons rock/Goons suck thread!). This is merely my personal observation of their activities and possible motives behind hulkageddon.


Actually. What was the last thing like this the goons pulled? Ice interdiction.
What do you REALLY need T2 barges for? Ice.

What does ice mean? PoS fuel blocks. And where do you need PoSes? NULLSEC, THAT'S WHERE! They're trying to consolidate their power bloc by pricing lesser opponents out the market.

Economic PVP
Katja Faith
Doomheim
#11 - 2012-06-08 15:53:16 UTC
Kara Books wrote:
Mr Sato wrote:
The 100 Mill handouts, currently rewarded for killing Exhumers, could be incorporating also T1 Barges thought for a lesser reward:

Surce: https://twitter.com/#TheMittani

"The Mittani ‏@TheMittani
I'm thinking about adding a junior-league #hulkageddon tier for t1 barges, something like 25-50m per 10. Thoughts? #tweetfleet #eveonline"

If it turns out to become a reality, it could affect the demand for Covetors (which actually have increased in price slightly where I reside). So my fellow indy players, new opportunities ahead =)


Starting to sound desperate, just saying that's what it sounds like.



Sounds to me like the disgraced lawyer is trying to buy some good will
Toroup
Prometheus Deep Core Mining and Salvage
#12 - 2012-06-09 03:17:11 UTC
This is all about minerals. Think about it - what makes more sense, destroying ships so that people replace them - ok maybe - but it's the minerals that is where the money is. With decreased mining, mineral prices go up b/c of supply side shortage. With increased production demand (to replace the lost ships) mineral demand goes up. End of the day, this "war on miners" is all about a 2 prong attacked - one to reduce the source of supply and two (a much weaker attack) to increase the demand for products. It would be genius if they weren't such evil bastards.

End of the day, what is going to stop this is only if miners (who are mostly recluses by nature) form a powerhouse Corp and keep all the minerals and production internal. That would stop their plans dead in their tracks - but they would still be the only supplier of minerals at that point for all the non-miners so it's still a win endgame for them.
Trollin
Perkone
Caldari State
#13 - 2012-06-09 03:26:03 UTC
Mittens becomes more and more like Molle every day

We are our own worst enemy.
Dave stark
#14 - 2012-06-09 11:36:39 UTC
shar'ra matcevsovski wrote:

would be true, if adding one more ship type to the list, would mean that more ganks would happen, wich is not the case, or not a logical assumption in this case at least. It only means that now Covetors and hlks getting blown up, not that there will be more people ganking than before.

and besides the theoretical aspect, there are not more covetors getting purchased than before, rather less (3 month chart).



but it will be the case. i doubt people were ganking covetors before this announcement because there was no hulkageddon rewards for it (as far as i understand). now there's more reason to gank a covetor, in addition more pilots can fit a cheap destroyer to solo gank a covetor than can fit [or would be willing to sacrifice] some thing like a hurricane or a tornado to solo gank a hulk.

in addition, 3 month moving average isn't really trustworthy here. hulkageddon was announced at christmas time, then pushed back repeatedly if my memory serves, miners who were insistent upon mining would have purchased replacements for their potential losses months ago, and hence haven't had to buy new ships in the last 3 months as they've had them in their hangar for the last 5-6 months.
shar'ra matcevsovski
Doomheim
#15 - 2012-06-09 12:44:30 UTC
Dave stark wrote:

but it will be the case. i doubt people were ganking covetors before this announcement because there was no hulkageddon rewards for it (as far as i understand). now there's more reason to gank a covetor, in addition more pilots can fit a cheap destroyer to solo gank a covetor than can fit [or would be willing to sacrifice] some thing like a hurricane or a tornado to solo gank a hulk.


there will be defently more covetors getting blown up, no doubt. But it is still just a shift from Hulks to Covetors (wich will not touch the covetor demand at all) because the ganking itself wont become more rewarding. covetors might be slightly easier to gank, but the reward is therefor lower with the same security hit even.

Dave stark wrote:

in addition, 3 month moving average isn't really trustworthy here. hulkageddon was announced at christmas time, then pushed back repeatedly if my memory serves, miners who were insistent upon mining would have purchased replacements for their potential losses months ago, and hence haven't had to buy new ships in the last 3 months as they've had them in their hangar for the last 5-6 months.


the op mentioned the price is already increasing due a higher demand wich, if you look at the sheet, is just not the case . if you compare the quantitiy chart of hulk and covetor, you will see that both have very similar events (wich basicly means that covetors are mostly used for hulk production, and not so much as a ship itself). So far the numbers ingame just dont support your /op`s theory.


shar'ra phone home
Dave stark
#16 - 2012-06-09 13:01:55 UTC
shar'ra matcevsovski wrote:
Dave stark wrote:

but it will be the case. i doubt people were ganking covetors before this announcement because there was no hulkageddon rewards for it (as far as i understand). now there's more reason to gank a covetor, in addition more pilots can fit a cheap destroyer to solo gank a covetor than can fit [or would be willing to sacrifice] some thing like a hurricane or a tornado to solo gank a hulk.


there will be defently more covetors getting blown up, no doubt. But it is still just a shift from Hulks to Covetors (wich will not touch the covetor demand at all) because the ganking itself wont become more rewarding. covetors might be slightly easier to gank, but the reward is therefor lower with the same security hit even.

Dave stark wrote:

in addition, 3 month moving average isn't really trustworthy here. hulkageddon was announced at christmas time, then pushed back repeatedly if my memory serves, miners who were insistent upon mining would have purchased replacements for their potential losses months ago, and hence haven't had to buy new ships in the last 3 months as they've had them in their hangar for the last 5-6 months.


the op mentioned the price is already increasing due a higher demand wich, if you look at the sheet, is just not the case . if you compare the quantitiy chart of hulk and covetor, you will see that both have very similar events (wich basicly means that covetors are mostly used for hulk production, and not so much as a ship itself). So far the numbers ingame just dont support your /op`s theory.




care to actually reply to my post, rather than just copying and pasting what i've already responded to?
Volar Kang
Kang Industrial
#17 - 2012-06-09 13:06:37 UTC
I can only imagine the many billions of isk that the Goon high command is making from all this. As an industrialist, think how much cash you could make by safely moon mining and roid stripping in null while you have 3000 mindless idiots driving prices up for you, killing off the competition and keeping sellers away from trade hubs. It is an industrialists dream come true!
qDoctor Strangelove
Doomheim
#18 - 2012-06-09 16:43:47 UTC
Volar Kang wrote:
I can only imagine the many billions of isk that the Goon high command is making from all this. As an industrialist, think how much cash you could make by safely moon mining and roid stripping in null while you have 3000 mindless idiots driving prices up for you, killing off the competition and keeping sellers away from trade hubs. It is an industrialists dream come true!


Problem is... goons do not mine in NULL sec.
Goons do not mine at all.

Some of their pubbies do mine, but that is just a few multiboxing bots.
Barbara Nichole
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#19 - 2012-06-09 18:24:13 UTC
Volar Kang wrote:
I can only imagine the many billions of isk that the Goon high command is making from all this. As an industrialist, think how much cash you could make by safely moon mining and roid stripping in null while you have 3000 mindless idiots driving prices up for you, killing off the competition and keeping sellers away from trade hubs. It is an industrialists dream come true!


I can't imagine it. It would make them hypocrits..I don't think you'll ever see goon mining in a big way.. oh don't be fooled by their protests that they have no mining in their space.... some of their associated corps do have mining listed on their recruitment ads.

  - remove the cloaked from local; free intel is the real problem, not  "afk" cloaking -

[IMG]http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a208/DawnFrostbringer/consultsig.jpg[/IMG]
Zetaomega333
High Flyers
#20 - 2012-06-10 03:55:54 UTC
qDoctor Strangelove wrote:
Volar Kang wrote:
I can only imagine the many billions of isk that the Goon high command is making from all this. As an industrialist, think how much cash you could make by safely moon mining and roid stripping in null while you have 3000 mindless idiots driving prices up for you, killing off the competition and keeping sellers away from trade hubs. It is an industrialists dream come true!


Problem is... goons do not mine in NULL sec.
Goons do not mine at all.

Some of their pubbies do mine, but that is just a few multiboxing bots.



Plenty of them mine, check the index's of thier region. The miners that mine are goonies and a good portion of them are bots.
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