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Missioners v's Incursioners
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Captain Vampire
Perkone
Caldari State
#1 - 2012-06-06 21:34:46 UTC
Which of you is now making the most isk per hour now?

To know your Enemy, you must become your Enemy.

Yes we already have spies in your corp muwhahahaha
Suqq Madiq
#2 - 2012-06-06 21:51:54 UTC
Incursion runners still make significantly more ISK per hour than Mission runners. Incursion fleets didn't take long to get back to >100mil ISK / hour, whereas average Mission runners make less than half of that. However, those numbers are skewed in that Incursion runners have more logistical issues to deal with that inevitably reduces their actual income (travel time, fleet formation, etc).
FlinchingNinja Kishunuba
Crunchy Crunchy
#3 - 2012-06-06 22:45:49 UTC
I would personally suggest that if you take in to account the travel time for Incursion runners and organisation requirements, the difference between the 2 is not that much.

Blitzing vs salvaging for mission runners can skew this depending on agent mission pool. Also when you get that juicy mining foreman link storyline all bets are off ;)
sabre906
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#4 - 2012-06-07 00:37:58 UTC  |  Edited by: sabre906
Suqq Madiq wrote:
Incursion runners still make significantly more ISK per hour than Mission runners. Incursion fleets didn't take long to get back to >100mil ISK / hour, whereas average Mission runners make less than half of that. However, those numbers are skewed in that Incursion runners have more logistical issues to deal with that inevitably reduces their actual income (travel time, fleet formation, etc).


Did you average in the first 3 hours where you wait for a fleet? What's the average for people with 3 hours of free time?
Cedo Nulli
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#5 - 2012-06-07 03:38:22 UTC
Over 100mil/h you say .... riiiiiiight.
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor
#6 - 2012-06-07 06:14:24 UTC
sabre906 wrote:
Did you average in the first 3 hours where you wait for a fleet? What's the average for people with 3 hours of free time?


In some circles you merely have to log in and a fleet will find you, not to mention wait patiently for you to travel 22 jumps to join them.

Day 0 Advice for New Players
Tasiv Deka
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#7 - 2012-06-07 06:24:41 UTC
so wait you all figured out how to get over the "incursion-breaking" nerf already... damn i had another month before i won the pot

Oh, Do go on... no seriously ive got nothing better to do then listen to all the petty arguments and feeble trolling attempts... 

The sad thing is i'm not sure if i'm telling the truth.
Nuela
WoT Misfits
#8 - 2012-06-07 15:20:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Nuela
All things considered and considering EVERYTHING, I made more isk in lvl 4's BEFORE the Incursion nerf. I haven't bothered to try it post-nerf because I assume I would make even less.

Lvl 4's seems to be where it's at. I make more Isk in lvl 4's then everything else I tried...plexing in Null sec, exploration, Incursions, Lvl 5's, etc etc etc. I've pretty much tried everything except Faction Warfare. Doing Plexes in Null with a capital ship holds promise and will likely pay more than lvl 4's which is also something I also haven't tried yet

One thing to know is that this toon has pretty much exclusively skilled up to run lvl 4's for quite some time so she is a missioning goddess at this time.
Daniel Plain
Doomheim
#9 - 2012-06-07 15:25:21 UTC
Mara Rinn wrote:
sabre906 wrote:
Did you average in the first 3 hours where you wait for a fleet? What's the average for people with 3 hours of free time?


In some circles you merely have to log in and a fleet will find you, not to mention wait patiently for you to travel 22 jumps to join them.

guess how many jumps a missioner has to travel?

I should buy an Ishtar.
Derath Ellecon
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#10 - 2012-06-07 15:43:01 UTC
Nuela wrote:
All things considered and considering EVERYTHING, I made more isk in lvl 4's BEFORE the Incursion nerf. I haven't bothered to try it post-nerf because I assume I would make even less.

Lvl 4's seems to be where it's at. I make more Isk in lvl 4's then everything else I tried...plexing in Null sec, exploration, Incursions, Lvl 5's, etc etc etc. I've pretty much tried everything except Faction Warfare. Doing Plexes in Null with a capital ship holds promise and will likely pay more than lvl 4's which is also something I also haven't tried yet

One thing to know is that this toon has pretty much exclusively skilled up to run lvl 4's for quite some time so she is a missioning goddess at this time.


Wormholes...
Nuela
WoT Misfits
#11 - 2012-06-07 15:46:08 UTC
Derath Ellecon wrote:
Nuela wrote:
All things considered and considering EVERYTHING, I made more isk in lvl 4's BEFORE the Incursion nerf. I haven't bothered to try it post-nerf because I assume I would make even less.

Lvl 4's seems to be where it's at. I make more Isk in lvl 4's then everything else I tried...plexing in Null sec, exploration, Incursions, Lvl 5's, etc etc etc. I've pretty much tried everything except Faction Warfare. Doing Plexes in Null with a capital ship holds promise and will likely pay more than lvl 4's which is also something I also haven't tried yet

One thing to know is that this toon has pretty much exclusively skilled up to run lvl 4's for quite some time so she is a missioning goddess at this time.


Wormholes...


I did the wormhole thing. Remember, I said ALL things considered :). Yes, you can make tons of Isk at certain times...but if you log in and not many are on, you don't make the Isk...and THAT COUNTS...meaning your isk/hour is hurt.
Daniel Plain
Doomheim
#12 - 2012-06-07 15:54:49 UTC
Nuela wrote:
Derath Ellecon wrote:
Nuela wrote:
All things considered and considering EVERYTHING, I made more isk in lvl 4's BEFORE the Incursion nerf. I haven't bothered to try it post-nerf because I assume I would make even less.

Lvl 4's seems to be where it's at. I make more Isk in lvl 4's then everything else I tried...plexing in Null sec, exploration, Incursions, Lvl 5's, etc etc etc. I've pretty much tried everything except Faction Warfare. Doing Plexes in Null with a capital ship holds promise and will likely pay more than lvl 4's which is also something I also haven't tried yet

One thing to know is that this toon has pretty much exclusively skilled up to run lvl 4's for quite some time so she is a missioning goddess at this time.


Wormholes...


I did the wormhole thing. Remember, I said ALL things considered :). Yes, you can make tons of Isk at certain times...but if you log in and not many are on, you don't make the Isk...and THAT COUNTS...meaning your isk/hour is hurt.

this. many people do not understand that the main advantage of lvl4s is 0 ramp-up time. you log in, decline missions until you get a good one, run it, get paid, log of again. that's ~20 mil in 15min without even counting the LP and you can do this ANY TIME without any opportunity costs or risk of losing assets.

I should buy an Ishtar.
Derath Ellecon
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#13 - 2012-06-07 18:55:37 UTC
Nuela wrote:
I did the wormhole thing. Remember, I said ALL things considered :). Yes, you can make tons of Isk at certain times...but if you log in and not many are on, you don't make the Isk...and THAT COUNTS...meaning your isk/hour is hurt.


Yes you did say all things considered. But then you rattled off specifics, which seemed to indicate things you have already tried, and WH's were not there. So you did not indicate you had actually tried wormholes.


Daniel Plain wrote:
this. many people do not understand that the main advantage of lvl4s is 0 ramp-up time. you log in, decline missions until you get a good one, run it, get paid, log of again. that's ~20 mil in 15min without even counting the LP and you can do this ANY TIME without any opportunity costs or risk of losing assets.


This argument is only partially accurate. If the only thing you do when playing eve is making isk, then you are correct that running missions is the easiest, no ramp up time, consistent revenue stream.

As an example, On monday night the WH I am in had spawned a bunch of sites. I ran them, and salvaged them. It took about 2 hours total, which is a bit slow. Right now I only have one of my toons in the WH, otherwise I usually dual box sites for greater speed. My other toons are having fun in FW.

I made about 400mil, in about 2 hours. Or 200mil/hr.

Now when I run missions, I'd say I do maybe 50mil an hour, if I am really working at it. so that same 400mil would have taken me 8 hours of game time. to make the same amount. Now yes I could make 400mil every 8 hours without worrying about site spawns, and I could do it every day.

But I don't want to spend that kind of time every day just grinding missions. I spent 2 hours this week making my isk, and the remaining 6 hours doing other stuff that i find fun (pew pewing and so forth).

Now I know one argument that might come up is I did not factor the time taking the sleeper loot to market. Sure but I also am not including time to haul mission salvage to market, or LP items to market (and LP item researching).
Violet Giraffe
Space Giraffes
#14 - 2012-06-07 19:45:58 UTC
Nuela wrote:
All things considered and considering EVERYTHING, I made more isk in lvl 4's BEFORE the Incursion nerf.

Would you give an estimation of ISK/hr you're getting? Care to share highlights of your technique with less experienced players? :)
Tasiv Deka
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#15 - 2012-06-07 19:55:44 UTC
Derath Ellecon wrote:
Nuela wrote:
I did the wormhole thing. Remember, I said ALL things considered :). Yes, you can make tons of Isk at certain times...but if you log in and not many are on, you don't make the Isk...and THAT COUNTS...meaning your isk/hour is hurt.


Yes you did say all things considered. But then you rattled off specifics, which seemed to indicate things you have already tried, and WH's were not there. So you did not indicate you had actually tried wormholes.


Daniel Plain wrote:
this. many people do not understand that the main advantage of lvl4s is 0 ramp-up time. you log in, decline missions until you get a good one, run it, get paid, log of again. that's ~20 mil in 15min without even counting the LP and you can do this ANY TIME without any opportunity costs or risk of losing assets.


This argument is only partially accurate. If the only thing you do when playing eve is making isk, then you are correct that running missions is the easiest, no ramp up time, consistent revenue stream.

As an example, On monday night the WH I am in had spawned a bunch of sites. I ran them, and salvaged them. It took about 2 hours total, which is a bit slow. Right now I only have one of my toons in the WH, otherwise I usually dual box sites for greater speed. My other toons are having fun in FW.

I made about 400mil, in about 2 hours. Or 200mil/hr.

Now when I run missions, I'd say I do maybe 50mil an hour, if I am really working at it. so that same 400mil would have taken me 8 hours of game time. to make the same amount. Now yes I could make 400mil every 8 hours without worrying about site spawns, and I could do it every day.

But I don't want to spend that kind of time every day just grinding missions. I spent 2 hours this week making my isk, and the remaining 6 hours doing other stuff that i find fun (pew pewing and so forth).

Now I know one argument that might come up is I did not factor the time taking the sleeper loot to market. Sure but I also am not including time to haul mission salvage to market, or LP items to market (and LP item researching).


Exactly this... running missons may be instant isk so to speak but i would much rather have more spare time to spend that isk

Oh, Do go on... no seriously ive got nothing better to do then listen to all the petty arguments and feeble trolling attempts... 

The sad thing is i'm not sure if i'm telling the truth.
Mazzy Star
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#16 - 2012-06-07 20:48:57 UTC
Derath Ellecon wrote:
Nuela wrote:
I did the wormhole thing. Remember, I said ALL things considered :). Yes, you can make tons of Isk at certain times...but if you log in and not many are on, you don't make the Isk...and THAT COUNTS...meaning your isk/hour is hurt.


Yes you did say all things considered. But then you rattled off specifics, which seemed to indicate things you have already tried, and WH's were not there. So you did not indicate you had actually tried wormholes.


Daniel Plain wrote:
this. many people do not understand that the main advantage of lvl4s is 0 ramp-up time. you log in, decline missions until you get a good one, run it, get paid, log of again. that's ~20 mil in 15min without even counting the LP and you can do this ANY TIME without any opportunity costs or risk of losing assets.


This argument is only partially accurate. If the only thing you do when playing eve is making isk, then you are correct that running missions is the easiest, no ramp up time, consistent revenue stream.

As an example, On monday night the WH I am in had spawned a bunch of sites. I ran them, and salvaged them. It took about 2 hours total, which is a bit slow. Right now I only have one of my toons in the WH, otherwise I usually dual box sites for greater speed. My other toons are having fun in FW.

I made about 400mil, in about 2 hours. Or 200mil/hr.

Now when I run missions, I'd say I do maybe 50mil an hour, if I am really working at it. so that same 400mil would have taken me 8 hours of game time. to make the same amount. Now yes I could make 400mil every 8 hours without worrying about site spawns, and I could do it every day.

But I don't want to spend that kind of time every day just grinding missions. I spent 2 hours this week making my isk, and the remaining 6 hours doing other stuff that i find fun (pew pewing and so forth).

Now I know one argument that might come up is I did not factor the time taking the sleeper loot to market. Sure but I also am not including time to haul mission salvage to market, or LP items to market (and LP item researching).


If you're capping out at 50 million/hour including LP conversions doing missions, you're doing missions wrong. You can earn quite a bit more than that with the right ships and planning.
Nuela
WoT Misfits
#17 - 2012-06-07 21:16:55 UTC
Violet Giraffe wrote:
Nuela wrote:
All things considered and considering EVERYTHING, I made more isk in lvl 4's BEFORE the Incursion nerf.

Would you give an estimation of ISK/hr you're getting? Care to share highlights of your technique with less experienced players? :)



I am probably not the best to answer this for all serious mission runners in that I mission to 'relax' most of the time. After work, having a drink and running some missions while dealing with kids etc. Therefore, I don't get real anal about soem things...like declining bad missions, getting top notch LP to isk conversion, blitzing etc. I also do 'wall clock' time...no stop watches and extraplating to get insane isk/hr.

AND NO DUALBOXING!

I have, however, done this just to see what I could get it I went all out at it...

If I am in relax/casual mode...I would say 50 Mill an hour.

If I am in a more motivated mode - declining the real bad missions, working a bit for better LP conversion etc...60-65 mill an hour.

A couple times I went all out (I was on vacation) and pushed it to see what I could do. Dual Box...hunt for best LP and my guesstimate was over 100 mill an hour.

WWAAAYYYY too much work though.

Despite what everyone says...if you can get 60 mill an hour missioning including everything...you are doing fine and don't sweat it.
Derath Ellecon
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#18 - 2012-06-07 21:42:50 UTC
Mazzy Star wrote:
If you're capping out at 50 million/hour including LP conversions doing missions, you're doing missions wrong. You can earn quite a bit more than that with the right ships and planning.


These replies are always fun. I'm basing that number off my current skills and so forth. And it is probably a very rough estimate. I don't actually do much with my LP (not worth the effort, I just use it to buy stuff for myself).

I'm still relatively new-ish in EVE time, having only played around a year. So I don't have the skills to fly all of the fastest mission running ships.

So I wouldn't say I'm doing it "wrong". Im just probably not as uber as you.

The bottom line though is that I can make far more per hour in a WH. and I don't have to do any planning, or LP research.


Nuela wrote:
I am probably not the best to answer this for all serious mission runners in that I mission to 'relax' most of the time.


Now see, THIS is a valid argument. I've been known to run some missions just because it is very low key. I can semi afk run missions while working from home. But missions haven't been my primary isk source for probably the last 9 months.
Captain Vampire
Perkone
Caldari State
#19 - 2012-06-08 14:02:55 UTC
Nice replies guys and well done for not flaming each other :)

It would seem it's all swings and roundabouts. Each has it's pro's and con's. Thanks again for the replies guys!

Much Love

CV

To know your Enemy, you must become your Enemy.

Yes we already have spies in your corp muwhahahaha
Mazzy Star
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#20 - 2012-06-08 14:36:06 UTC
Quote:
These replies are always fun. I'm basing that number off my current skills and so forth. And it is probably a very rough estimate. I don't actually do much with my LP (not worth the effort, I just use it to buy stuff for myself).

I'm still relatively new-ish in EVE time, having only played around a year. So I don't have the skills to fly all of the fastest mission running ships.

So I wouldn't say I'm doing it "wrong". Im just probably not as uber as you.

The bottom line though is that I can make far more per hour in a WH. and I don't have to do any planning, or LP research.


As a first matter, the planning and LP research is more of a one time thing and doesn't require that much effort. There's little point considering most LP store items like ships and charters because they almost never have a good conversion rate. Once you find a good item or several good items, you can just keep churning them out with LP until the market changes. I cash out the same way today with the same items as I did four years ago. Also, you say that you don't do any planning or research, but I would disagree with that. WH's operate a bit differently than other areas of EVE and there are things you need to learn to run wormhole content safely and efficiently. Were I to venture a guess, I would say you have done more work to get your WH running setup than most people do to begin missioning.

Also, I'm not disputing WH's are good for income - they generally are much better ISK/hr than mission running and they should be. They're also high risk though and they aren't a sure thing. What I have a problem with is people comparing the "average" mission runner who can only make 40-50 mil/h against the incursion fleets like ISN who are getting 100m+ an hour, while ignoring the travel time and wait time that accompanies incursion running. It's a matter of comparing apples to apples.
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