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What's with all this new mention of "Incursion Communities"?
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Khanh'rhh
Sparkle Motion.
#81 - 2012-06-07 11:14:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Khanh'rhh
Mara Rinn wrote:
If the target isn't valuable enough, no action is taken. The "community" obviously doesn't exist because they're not blowing up things.

I've seen strawman arguments before, but this is just all levels of special. There's no community around a single target, the players get together in order to FIND targets and gank them. They come back the next day whether they lost ISK or made 3billion in loot. There's no splitting up of people when a gank doesn't happen. Have you even looked at your argument? It's beyond stupid. A community is a group of people with a common interest who do things together. None of this changes when target X becomes target Y instead. The incursion community simply stopped existing when Vanguards got nerf batted and instead of doing other things together (WH sites, L5 missions .... different incursion sites) they're simply off solo.

Again, you admit this yourself
Quote:
The ISK farmers have moved on to other ISK farming activities (anomalies in null sec, L4 missions in hisec, mining, etc).

As for
Quote:
The Incursions grievers gave up after a couple of weeks of shutting down Incursions

First, you can't spell griefers. Second, no, they didn't. They were there griefing on day one and are still there doing it now. You again are looking at one particular example (the complete lockout) and drawing complete nonsense from it.

Please, keep coming back with these arguments, they're endlessly amusing. One target opportunity is a community, heh.

"Do not touch anything unnecessarily. Beware of pretty girls in dance halls and parks who may be spies, as well as bicycles, revolvers, uniforms, arms, dead horses, and men lying on roads -- they are not there accidentally." -Soviet infantry manual,

Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor
#82 - 2012-06-07 13:31:13 UTC
Khanh'rhh wrote:
Please, keep coming back with these arguments, they're endlessly amusing. One target opportunity is a community, heh.


You're the one claiming that the "Incursion community" is dead, even though they are still going strong. Please recognise the nonsense arguments you are attempting to refute as examples of your argument applied to your play style.

Griefers still grief. Incursion runners still run Incursions. Your claim that there is no Incursion "community" is easily falsifiable.

And congratulations for having so little strength in your arguments that you have to pick on an autocorrect spelling error to make yourself feel good.

Day 0 Advice for New Players
Jake Warbird
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#83 - 2012-06-07 14:39:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Jake Warbird
Khanh'rhh wrote:
channels......wallet screenshots.....epeen swinging.....theorycrafted nonsense


Well,isn't this what goes on in most of Eve?

Sugar Von MurdererTits : Jake Warbird gets my vote for most intriguing and attractive male character in Eve.
Psychotic Monk
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#84 - 2012-06-07 14:56:51 UTC
Mara Rinn wrote:


The Incursions grievers gave up after a couple of weeks of shutting down Incursions. The people remaining are griefing incursions as a solo game. The griefing "community" doesn't exist, by your standards.



We're not griefing *incursions*. I'm happy to report that not only am I still flying and killing with most of the people that I griefed incursions with, but also we've created bonds with similarly minded folks in other organizations.

We brag, share tears, and give each other tips and advice about forms of griefing that range from simple can flipping to long term infiltrations. Me, personally, I've got an especially soft spot for people new to the life and love giving guidance to newbros. I've even written up the odd guide for them.

We're not a community based around griefing incursions, we're a community based around griefing (and war deccing, and also griefing DayZ.)

Belligerent Undesirables Selling Griefer Immunity
Nicolo da'Vicenza
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#85 - 2012-06-07 15:07:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Nicolo da'Vicenza
Marlona Sky wrote:
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:
Marlona Sky wrote:
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:
after time has passed and memory faded a bit, players who loved their broken isk printer are trying to revise history by adding a chapter of an 'incursion community'


Does your alliance control any high end moons?

detorid is the land of milk and honey, ask anyone


That a yes or no?

Cascade Imminent was an Incursion-running alliance that happened to hold sov space for like 6 months.
So no.

heh
ian papabear
No Regard.
#86 - 2012-06-07 17:06:50 UTC
TheBreadMuncher wrote:
Recently, I've been seeing posts by various people claiming that Inferno ruined "communities" created by Incursions. I'm sorry, but the main thing that sticks in my mind when talking about incursions is elitist free-for-all carebears pushing each other back down the stairs in order to be the person at the top with the biggest bucket while it rained ISK. Not got a blingfit officer navy mega for the Incursion? Sorry, pally, you're not allowed in.

Are people seeing these incursions through rosy-tinted spectacles now, or are those who relied on the ISK faucet just becoming a lot more vocal?


yeah there were private and public communites created soley for incursions such as btl armor, btl pub, ditanium fleet, summer incursions, isn, etc

these communities have either disbanded or seen a dramatic drop in numbers since the incursion patch. The reason behind this is that the people who were apart of these communities were high secers who only ran incursions as a means of isk making and now that that cant efficently make 100-150 mill an hour they moved on to more profiitable things and/or to null

.
Khanh'rhh
Sparkle Motion.
#87 - 2012-06-07 17:14:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Khanh'rhh
Mara Rinn wrote:
Khanh'rhh wrote:
Please, keep coming back with these arguments, they're endlessly amusing. One target opportunity is a community, heh.


You're the one claiming that the "Incursion community" is dead, even though they are still going strong.


If by "going strong" you mean down to about 40% (at best) of what it was before, with most "leaders" having quit, and endlessly complaining about the nerf, yeah, it's a pillar.

Also, I really can't make this point enough seemingly, Incursion runners themselves are telling me/you that no one is doing them and the community is "devastated". The channels are an endless stream of whine that there's no fleets up. I tried to go grief some last week but there was literally NO ONE DOING THEM TO ANNOY.

My claim the Incursion community is dead is self evident by their own incessant bleating and casual observations. But again, do keep on going. I really want to see how many words you can write without actually making a solid point.

My favourite one of your completely random argument toss-ins was when you claimed supercaps were an issue with lowsec PVP because of industry.

I nearly fell of a chair. Actually, carry on and I may be the first literal casualty of a bad argument.

"Do not touch anything unnecessarily. Beware of pretty girls in dance halls and parks who may be spies, as well as bicycles, revolvers, uniforms, arms, dead horses, and men lying on roads -- they are not there accidentally." -Soviet infantry manual,

Khanh'rhh
Sparkle Motion.
#88 - 2012-06-07 17:16:25 UTC
Psychotic Monk wrote:
Mara Rinn wrote:


The Incursions grievers gave up after a couple of weeks of shutting down Incursions. The people remaining are griefing incursions as a solo game. The griefing "community" doesn't exist, by your standards.



We're not griefing *incursions*. I'm happy to report that not only am I still flying and killing with most of the people that I griefed incursions with, but also we've created bonds with similarly minded folks in other organizations.

We brag, share tears, and give each other tips and advice about forms of griefing that range from simple can flipping to long term infiltrations. Me, personally, I've got an especially soft spot for people new to the life and love giving guidance to newbros. I've even written up the odd guide for them.

We're not a community based around griefing incursions, we're a community based around griefing (and war deccing, and also griefing DayZ.)


See, Mara, this is a community. It's not about what you do but the people you do it with.

If the incursion super-tard-bears ever had a community they'd still be doing things together instead of moving on to the next-best risk free ISK/hr activity. Solo.

"Do not touch anything unnecessarily. Beware of pretty girls in dance halls and parks who may be spies, as well as bicycles, revolvers, uniforms, arms, dead horses, and men lying on roads -- they are not there accidentally." -Soviet infantry manual,

DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
#89 - 2012-06-07 17:41:47 UTC  |  Edited by: DarthNefarius
delete
An' then Chicken@little.com, he come scramblin outta the    Terminal room screaming "The system's crashing! The system's    crashing!" -Uncle RAMus, 'Tales for Cyberpsychotic Children'
Nicolo da'Vicenza
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#90 - 2012-06-07 17:43:35 UTC
lol we've just entered a new level of debate gentlemen
DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
#91 - 2012-06-13 06:04:18 UTC  |  Edited by: DarthNefarius
Hanuman Li Tosh wrote:
Khanh'rhh wrote:
There's also a self evident paradox here.

If there WAS a community, then it would survive a nerf to ONE small part of the game and those people would be doing something else together instead of splitting up and returning to solo-EvE.

The fact that a 10% income nerf completely broke up the "community" says a lot about it's validity.

A group of players sucking on an ISK-faucet that badly, badly needed to be fixed is not a community, its a large group of opportunists doing it at the same time.


The fact that you think that you think the nerf was 10% illustrates your ignorance brilliantly.


The NERF was closer to 70% ( probably greater but the stats are 'inaccessable' ) The NULL/lo communites can not put a dent in any lo or NULL SEC Incursion ever since the Escalation nerf almost 2 months ago CCP has dragged its high heels until now and the current 'solution' is a bunch of bullocks which will see no results IMHO and feedback is being ignored like it was a UI change or FW balance.
An' then Chicken@little.com, he come scramblin outta the    Terminal room screaming "The system's crashing! The system's    crashing!" -Uncle RAMus, 'Tales for Cyberpsychotic Children'
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor
#92 - 2012-06-13 06:20:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Mara Rinn
Khanh'rhh wrote:
See, Mara, this is a community. It's not about what you do but the people you do it with.


Exactly. You are, perhaps, not beyond education.

Khanh'rhh wrote:
If the incursion super-tard-bears ever had a community they'd still be doing things together instead of moving on to the next-best risk free ISK/hr activity. Solo.


Nope. I take that back.

The folks that I am aware of were in these general sets:

  • w-space folks coming to hisec to give Incursions a try (because 100M ISK/hr in hisec is easier money than 200M ISK/hr in w-space)
  • mission bears trying out the social thing
  • raiding guilds from other MMOs trying out the EVE thing
  • EVE players just looking for cool groups to hang out with


The people that are no longer running incursions are mostly:

  • w-space folks who went back to w-space (200M ISK/hr in w-space is easier money than 70M ISK/hr in hisec Incursions)
  • mission bears going back to missions
  • raiding guilds from other MMOs who decided that the time spent on Incursions was better spent raiding in their home MMO, or playing Diablo III


The folks who are left are the ones who are looking for the cool group to hang out with, still keen on running Incursions. There are still communities there: they just aren't all running Incursions. Some of the folks who were previously running Incursions are from communities outside incursions, just like the griefer community. They are still in their communities, just not doing Incursions anymore because they have better things to do with their time.

The hardcore Incursion community is still there, running Incursion(s). They're limited to just one Incursion due to the impact of the vanguard changes and the changes to influence.

Before wandering into a random incursion, seeing a lack of spam in the Incursion channel and determining that stuff just isn't happening, look around for the incursion community. They're still out there, it's just that you can't see them because you have your eyes closed.

(check out Maddam constellation today if you want to see where the diehard Incursion community is currently operating)

Day 0 Advice for New Players
Herr Hammer Draken
#93 - 2012-06-13 07:08:55 UTC
The hard core group that runs incursions got that way because of the incursion itself and how it works.
Their is an ideal number of ships to run each incursion type.
Therefore the best chance to run it without loss is to have the best of each type of ship that they need represented.
If you take up a BB spot with a FF well you can see why they would turn you down.

Also the pay out reward was competetive and went to the group that could finish the incursion first.
So the whole event lent itself to exclusivity. They did not want a noob in the group to slow them down and or fail.
Fail in this case meant slowed down to the point where a competitor finished ahead of them and won.
If you did not fit a role they wanted you did not get in.
And that bar was quite high for the hard core group.

So yes they really are not open to the general EVE player.
It required quite an extensive investment in skill points and ship modules to meet that standard.

Herr Hammer Draken "The Amarr Prophet"
Ammzi
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#94 - 2012-06-13 07:38:03 UTC
FloppieTheBanjoClown wrote:
EnslaverOfMinmatar wrote:
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=55792

That was so much fun.


*grins*
Good show though Floppie on your previous comments in this thread +1
seany1212
M Y S T
#95 - 2012-06-13 08:21:38 UTC
Marlona Sky wrote:
Richard Desturned wrote:
Marlona Sky wrote:
I love how you are constantly contradicting yourself all over the place. Blink


i see no contradictions in that post, sorry


Talking about previous posts on previous days. I should have specified.

Anyways, continue telling the rest of the player base about how they are playing in the sandbox wrong. Big smile


I thought that was the point of the entire forums.. (wrong iskmaker, wrong fit, wrong corp/alliance, wrong way to grief, etc.) Roll

The real incursion communities still exist, they run incursions for the fun of doing it with other players who enjoy the same topic of eve gameplay as them. The incursion community didnt die, it just got filtered of all the dead weight that was only in it to gain high amounts of isk then split.
DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
#96 - 2012-06-13 20:04:35 UTC
" But the fact remains that CCP essentially murdered what was previously a growing, vibrant player community. "
http://jestertrek.blogspot.com/2012/06/rollback.html
An' then Chicken@little.com, he come scramblin outta the    Terminal room screaming "The system's crashing! The system's    crashing!" -Uncle RAMus, 'Tales for Cyberpsychotic Children'
Morganta
The Greater Goon
#97 - 2012-06-13 20:16:29 UTC
Richard Desturned wrote:
TheBreadMuncher wrote:
My question is, what communities? I can't recall them ever actually existing in the sense of a proper community.


Apparently they'll call a chat channel where you link your ship fitting and get fleet invites a "community"


bout sums it up
Russell Casey
Doomheim
#98 - 2012-06-13 20:35:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Russell Casey
Anya Ohaya wrote:
TheBreadMuncher wrote:
elitist free-for-all carebears pushing each other back down the stairs in order to be the person at the top with the biggest bucket while it rained ISK. Not got a blingfit officer navy mega for the Incursion? Sorry, pally, you're not allowed in.


Sounds like a community to me.

In fact it sounds like most Western countries. Every tried to get into the "Land of the Free" lately?


Those poor people.
DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
#99 - 2012-06-14 04:37:21 UTC
com·mu·ni·ty   /kəˈmyunɪti/ Show Spelled[kuh-myoo-ni-tee] Show IPA
noun, plural com·mu·ni·ties.
1. a social group of any size whose members reside in a specific locality, share government, and often have a common cultural and historical heritage.
2. a locality inhabited by such a group.
3. a social, religious, occupational, or other group sharing common characteristics or interests and perceived or perceiving itself as distinct in some respect from the larger society within which it exists (usually preceded by the ): the business community; the community of scholars.
4. a group of associated nations sharing common interests or a common heritage: the community of Western Europe.
5. Ecclesiastical . a group of men or women leading a common life according to a rule. 

An' then Chicken@little.com, he come scramblin outta the    Terminal room screaming "The system's crashing! The system's    crashing!" -Uncle RAMus, 'Tales for Cyberpsychotic Children'
Simi Kusoni
HelloKittyFanclub
#100 - 2012-06-14 04:44:50 UTC
DarthNefarius wrote:
com·mu·ni·ty   /kəˈmyunɪti/ Show Spelled[kuh-myoo-ni-tee] Show IPA
noun, plural com·mu·ni·ties.
1. a social group of any size whose members reside in a specific locality, share government, and often have a common cultural and historical heritage.
2. a locality inhabited by such a group.
3. a social, religious, occupational, or other group sharing common characteristics or interests and perceived or perceiving itself as distinct in some respect from the larger society within which it exists (usually preceded by the ): the business community; the community of scholars.
4. a group of associated nations sharing common interests or a common heritage: the community of Western Europe.
5. Ecclesiastical . a group of men or women leading a common life according to a rule.


6. Some random chat channel used to x up for fleets?

[center]"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings"  -MXZF[/center]