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Emergent Contradiction with HulkaWoWagettingboringdon
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MasterEnt
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#41 - 2012-06-04 18:55:03 UTC
Weaselior wrote:
MasterEnt wrote:

Id appreciate it if you stop making assumptions about other peoples playing styles and motivations. Same difference.

I assure you, we can easily discuss the reams of data showing that highsec miners are incredibly risk-averse (an oddity, in a game all about dealing with risk) and its effect on the game without resorting to crude sexual imagery.


1) Please DO show me the numbers that PROVE HiSec miners are risk-adversed as opposed to doing it for some other reason. Linky with credible conclusions please.

2) Its wasn't sexual imagery, it was copy. You get off here killing people all day and are worried about sex? You must be American.
Makkal Hanaya
Revenent Defence Corperation
#42 - 2012-06-04 19:01:14 UTC
Spy 21 wrote:
I understand that... and when players allow themselves to become paralyzed with fear to the point of not being able function it is the sign of a player that should not be in this game.

They just need to be eased back into the proper mindset. It's easy to get caught up in unimportant thing. I think it happens to most of us at times.

Render unto Khanid the things which are Khanid's; and unto God the things that are God's.
Weaselior
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#43 - 2012-06-04 21:51:15 UTC
MasterEnt wrote:

1) Please DO show me the numbers that PROVE HiSec miners are risk-adversed as opposed to doing it for some other reason. Linky with credible conclusions please.


I have as little need to do this as I have a need to prove the sky is blue, to anyone who has been following the forums. Countless miners have posted threads verifying precisely what I have said. Moreover, mining shows an incredible drop that cannot be attributed merely to rational response to ganking, but can be attributed to a flight from mining as soon as risk increased that is utterly insensitive to the level of that risk.

Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Pubbie Management and Exploitation Division.
SmilingVagrant
Doomheim
#44 - 2012-06-04 21:52:47 UTC
Weaselior wrote:
MasterEnt wrote:

Goons like to jerk the jimmy a lot.
Im sure some of them have had their lower ribs removed so they suck their own wanks.


I'd appreciate it if you refrained from resorting to crude sexual imagery when discussing EVE Online on the EVE Online Forums with me. Thanks!


I'd like him to get more graphic.
Powers Sa
#45 - 2012-06-04 22:28:01 UTC
MasterEnt wrote:
The arguments for all this recent nonsense are beyond ******** and completely di-polar.

- "Hulks dont belong in Hisec" yet, "EVE is a sandbox" (yes we ALL use our ships according to "Show info"
- "Play the way you want to play" yet "we kill noob miners in order to give them something they didn't ask for"
- "Emergent and Dynamic" yet "Indefinite Hulkageddon"
- "Build empires" yet "Myopic focus on Hisec miners"

Meanwhile 0.0 is a vast wasteland.
Sorry kids, this whole thing is as cutting edge as a butterknife.

Can we get out of the mud?

Who are you direct quoting? Where are your sources?.

This is your chance to not be an idiot and formulate a well thought out post.

Do you like winning t2 frigs and dictors for Dirt Cheap?https://eveninggames.net/register/ref/dQddmNgyLhFBqNJk

Remeber: Gambling addiction is no laughing matter unless you've lost a vast space fortune on the internet.
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#46 - 2012-06-04 22:52:04 UTC
RAP ACTION HERO wrote:

why don't you just count your profits and be happy?


Because the markets of a 30k players market are much better than those of a 5k players market.

EvE Online portal | EvE markets tutorials
Kiteo Hatto
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#47 - 2012-06-04 23:02:01 UTC
damn, thats a lot of goons in this thread.
Skydell
Bad Girl Posse
#48 - 2012-06-04 23:03:15 UTC
Powers Sa wrote:
MasterEnt wrote:
The arguments for all this recent nonsense are beyond ******** and completely di-polar.

- "Hulks dont belong in Hisec" yet, "EVE is a sandbox" (yes we ALL use our ships according to "Show info"
- "Play the way you want to play" yet "we kill noob miners in order to give them something they didn't ask for"
- "Emergent and Dynamic" yet "Indefinite Hulkageddon"
- "Build empires" yet "Myopic focus on Hisec miners"

Meanwhile 0.0 is a vast wasteland.
Sorry kids, this whole thing is as cutting edge as a butterknife.

Can we get out of the mud?

Who are you direct quoting? Where are your sources?.

This is your chance to not be an idiot and formulate a well thought out post.


Mostly Goon trolls and propagandists here on the forums. I've seen every one of these claims as thread after thread calls this buffer exploit out and gets flamed down.
Bossy Lady
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#49 - 2012-06-04 23:05:33 UTC
MasterEnt wrote:
The arguments for all this recent nonsense are beyond ******** and completely di-polar.

- "Hulks dont belong in Hisec" yet, "EVE is a sandbox" (yes we ALL use our ships according to "Show info"
- "Play the way you want to play" yet "we kill noob miners in order to give them something they didn't ask for"
- "Emergent and Dynamic" yet "Indefinite Hulkageddon"
- "Build empires" yet "Myopic focus on Hisec miners"

Meanwhile 0.0 is a vast wasteland.
Sorry kids, this whole thing is as cutting edge as a butterknife.

Can we get out of the mud?



Thanks for starting a new thread with your thoughts.

Posting on this character because apparently some people get upset when they're asked difficult questions. M.
Lin-Young Borovskova
Doomheim
#50 - 2012-06-04 23:07:03 UTC
flakeys wrote:
Dragon Outlaw wrote:
Maybe its a reflection of what humanity is?

If aliens really are watching us, they must think we are all a bunch of retards.



Don't need to be an alien to notice that though Blink



So true

brb
No More Heroes
Boomer Humor
Snuffed Out
#51 - 2012-06-05 16:54:12 UTC
MasterEnt wrote:
The arguments for all this recent nonsense are beyond ******** and completely di-polar.

- "Hulks dont belong in Hisec" yet, "EVE is a sandbox" (yes we ALL use our ships according to "Show info"
- "Play the way you want to play" yet "we kill noob miners in order to give them something they didn't ask for"
- "Emergent and Dynamic" yet "Indefinite Hulkageddon"
- "Build empires" yet "Myopic focus on Hisec miners"

Meanwhile 0.0 is a vast wasteland.
Sorry kids, this whole thing is as cutting edge as a butterknife.

Can we get out of the mud?


No one is arguing except you, so basically no one.

.
Spineker
#52 - 2012-06-05 21:08:46 UTC
MasterEnt wrote:
The arguments for all this recent nonsense are beyond ******** and completely di-polar.

- "Hulks dont belong in Hisec" yet, "EVE is a sandbox" (yes we ALL use our ships according to "Show info"
- "Play the way you want to play" yet "we kill noob miners in order to give them something they didn't ask for"
- "Emergent and Dynamic" yet "Indefinite Hulkageddon"
- "Build empires" yet "Myopic focus on Hisec miners"

Meanwhile 0.0 is a vast wasteland.
Sorry kids, this whole thing is as cutting edge as a butterknife.

Can we get out of the mud?



Good post bro +1
Spineker
#53 - 2012-06-05 21:09:46 UTC
Dragon Outlaw wrote:
Maybe its a reflection of what humanity is?

If aliens really are watching us, they must think we are all a bunch of retards.



LOL no way they would make contact with us. Pirate
Dimitryy
Silent Knights.
LinkNet
#54 - 2012-06-05 21:15:29 UTC
MasterEnt wrote:
The arguments for all this recent nonsense are beyond ******** and completely di-polar.

- "Hulks dont belong in Hisec" yet, "EVE is a sandbox" (yes we ALL use our ships according to "Show info"
- "Play the way you want to play" yet "we kill noob miners in order to give them something they didn't ask for"
- "Emergent and Dynamic" yet "Indefinite Hulkageddon"
- "Build empires" yet "Myopic focus on Hisec miners"

Meanwhile 0.0 is a vast wasteland.
Sorry kids, this whole thing is as cutting edge as a butterknife.

Can we get out of the mud?


You seem to be forgetting that there are other people in your sandbox. The idea of sandbox gameplay is that rather than a defined narrative and defined goals, players make their own narrative and goals.

So lets look at a day in the life of our sandbox. A group of people create an event to hunt industry pilots in highsec. They have created an 'empire' so large and secure that they can focus and fund a highsec campaign. They are playing the game the way they want in the sandbox. Now comes the emergent and dynamic gameplay; Good players will learn how to avoid and mitigate their risk of being ganked, they will profit off the gankers and the price fluctuations on the market, and they will continue to play the game they way they want. This is how the sandbox works.

The idea that 'sandbox' means 'I can do whatever i want and no one should be able to stop me' is a terrible misconception.

-Dimi
Makkal Hanaya
Revenent Defence Corperation
#55 - 2012-06-05 22:04:25 UTC
Shooting at any non-blue in your territory is a risk averse action. You could argue that it's a rational action, but that's neither here nor there. There's lots of safe, rational actions.

Wearing a seatbelt? Risk averse. The average person is never in an accident, yet the majority of people wear safety belts just in case. Moreover, that doesn't mean that people who wear seat belts are risk averse; race car drivers wear seatbelts.

Render unto Khanid the things which are Khanid's; and unto God the things that are God's.
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#56 - 2012-06-05 22:10:46 UTC  |  Edited by: RubyPorto
Makkal Hanaya wrote:
Shooting at any non-blue in your territory is a risk averse action. You could argue that it's a rational action, but that's neither here nor there. There's lots of safe, rational actions.

Wearing a seatbelt? Risk averse. The average person is never in an accident, yet the majority of people wear safety belts just in case. Moreover, that doesn't mean that people who wear seat belts are risk averse; race car drivers wear seatbelts.


Never said it wasn't. Miners are saying "My car might crash therefore I CAN'T drive, and screw you for suggesting I wear a seatbelt." That's an irrational aversion to risk.

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
Makkal Hanaya
Revenent Defence Corperation
#57 - 2012-06-05 22:23:42 UTC
You seem to be under the impression that my post was a response to yours. It wasn't.

Likewise, I never suggested that you wear a seatbelt. I stated that the majority of people wear seatbelts and that's a risk averse action.

Render unto Khanid the things which are Khanid's; and unto God the things that are God's.
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#58 - 2012-06-05 22:26:27 UTC  |  Edited by: RubyPorto
Makkal Hanaya wrote:
You seem to be under the impression that my post was a response to yours. It wasn't.

Likewise, I never suggested that you wear a seatbelt. I stated that the majority of people wear seatbelts and that's a risk averse action.


Sorry, not quoting what you're responding to makes it much harder to tell.

I didn't say that you suggested that people wear seatbelts. I was adapting the miner's argument to the analogy.

EDIT: Again, nobody's saying miner's shouldn't be risk averse. Just that they shouldn't be irrationally so.

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
Makkal Hanaya
Revenent Defence Corperation
#59 - 2012-06-05 22:31:09 UTC
RubyPorto wrote:
Sorry, not quoting what you're responding to makes it much harder to tell.

Not a problem. I shall try to be clearer next time.

Quote:
I didn't say that you suggested that people wear seatbelts. I was adapting the miner's argument to the analogy.

I get it now. To some extent, I agree with what you're saying.

I also think there's a problem with lack of information. Hulkageddon is 'hyped' so many miners imagine that it's all out war where every one is in constant danger, as opposed to a relatively small increase in risk. Both PvPers and miners tend to overstate just how widespread the situation is.

Render unto Khanid the things which are Khanid's; and unto God the things that are God's.
Spikeflach
Perkone
Caldari State
#60 - 2012-06-05 22:45:37 UTC
I Believe its pretty rational for a miner to not mine when people are out looking to gank them.

It's been suggested by the same people that have been saying miners want to be risk free.