These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Missions & Complexes

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
12Next page
 

is it me, or are good ships actually rubbish??
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
wayz
Red Command
#1 - 2012-06-05 12:36:07 UTC
( possible rage rant but I need help )

So after doing level 4's in my sleipnir pretty much exclusively, I decided the DPS was appalling, and I could not increase it without losing my lol @ everything tank. So I go hang around in mission chat for awhile and ask some questions about what ships are the best for me.

I get told either vargur or mach.. So, I go for the vargur first.. i kit it up, and love the damage I was doing. The tank was pretty awesome also, apart from the setup I had used x-large booster and my cap died quite fast. The only thing I didn't like was the high slots, I didn't want to use the ship for salvage when I have a salvage alt, I figured it would be a waste of time so I go back to mission chat.

After even more asking around, I get convinced the mach is one bad ass ship, and I should get it as it does more dps. So off to jita I go, sell my vargur and mods losing like 200mil overall because I like quick sell.. Buy myself a mach, kit it up and get impressed by the numbers I'm seeing..

So I go to my first level 4 mission in my mach, 4 battleships, 6 bc's and some frigs all aggro me... I start shooting and well I do less damage per shot, that is expected due to rate of fire, but I seem to be killing things about twice as slow as the vargur even tho my dps is higher. ( yes I am using missions specific ammo ) This confuses me, and not only that after a min of being in this mission, I find that I'm almost on armor and I have to warp out...

Now, this is pretty much stupid seeing as I could lol @ these missions in my olden days of using a maelstrom...

Seriously, I have a bil isk ship with another bil isk in modules and they are absolute pants compared to a 200mil t1 battleship.. even my sleipnir was better than this. (then again there bad ass)

Can someone PLEASE tell me what I am doing wrong??? how do you fly this stupid mach ship, or should I just rage quit and sell it??? vargur outperformed it, I cannot justify the isk I wasted getting this mach tho :/

GRRR

Shatner19
X.S. Industries
#2 - 2012-06-05 12:55:53 UTC
Mach isnt a sit and tank/gank of ship - its more about gaining transversal and using its cruiser like speed to negate damage.

personally I prefer the vargur its easy mode. Just sit and tank type of tactics, mine is tech II fitted and use tech 1 ammo and i still destroy missions easily. The high slots are superfluous but three tractors and a noctis with 8 salvagers is quick work. my preferred pair is a Vargur and sentry/salvage domi, the extra dps helps and i have the cleanup crew along side - plus emergency RR in case poop hits the fan.
Daniel Plain
Doomheim
#3 - 2012-06-05 12:56:17 UTC
firstly and most importantly, you're doing it wrong.

i'm not quite sure what 'it' is yet so let me ask you some questions:
- which mission did you run?
- did you speed tank?
- what was your tank setup?
- what guns are you using?

I should buy an Ishtar.
Capri Sern
The Stand Alone Complex
#4 - 2012-06-05 12:58:07 UTC
Not sure what's going on. I've flown both the Mach and the Vargur and found them to be excellent ships though i stuck with the Mach after the changes to jamming NPC's as the Vargur just gets perma jammed too easily. Are you using arty or AC's? (hint you should be using 800mm AC's for most missions)
wayz
Red Command
#5 - 2012-06-05 13:00:57 UTC
Daniel Plain wrote:
firstly and most importantly, you're doing it wrong.

i'm not quite sure what 'it' is yet so let me ask you some questions:
- which mission did you run? the assault
- did you speed tank? AB running 500+m/s
- what was your tank setup? 2x invul 2's, CN shield boost amp, gist large shield booster.
- what guns are you using?800's
Bibosikus
Air
#6 - 2012-06-05 13:16:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Bibosikus
Drop the boost amp, switch the booster for a T2 XL version. You only need to pulse it. Gives you room for a Tracking Comp with tracking speed script which adds another 20% to tracking speed after stacking penalties from the TE's.
For rigs I use anti-EM, polycarbon and a T2 Ambit Extension.
With 800's, T1 ammo and 3% implants I get 980dps at 4.2+73 falloff. That's before using any drones.

Lows should be 4 faction gyros and 3 TE's. Yes the 4th Gyro is heavily penalised but it still gets you another 60dps before heat.

At the risk of sounding obvious, you are using Fusion vs. Angel rats etc, right? Because this setup wastes 99% of L4 missions in very short order.

Eagles may soar, but weasels don't get sucked into jet engines.
Daniel Plain
Doomheim
#7 - 2012-06-05 13:18:07 UTC
you do not need to shoot up everything in the assault. if you still want to, try fitting kinetic + invul (gurista) or kinetic + thermal (serpentis) hardeners. also, an xl booster + cap booster will give you more raw hps than a large booster + amp.

I should buy an Ishtar.
wayz
Red Command
#8 - 2012-06-05 13:19:00 UTC  |  Edited by: wayz
guristas I was using kinetic, I'm flying to jita now to sell it and rage quit level 4 missions ( or buy a vargur / sleipnir again )

lol

thanks for info guys, but I think my play style demands either sit there and shoot from range, or stupidly fast close range. anything in between I think i rage at.. I'm a pretty bad player tbh
Vientes Fenerre
Rokh Industries
#9 - 2012-06-05 13:22:05 UTC
drop the invus and the boost amplifier and use three mission specific hardeners. This should do it, if you still feel you tank too little, get an X-large booster. If you do, some long range NOS will help.

As mentioned before, keep speed up. The Mach usually goes through lvl 4s like a hot knife through butter: 1100 turret dps + drones, 600+m/s, and - taking guristas as an example - 88k EHP with 443 shield boost, or even 886 boost with an x-type x-large booster.
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#10 - 2012-06-05 13:32:43 UTC
wayz wrote:
guristas I was using kinetic, I'm flying to jita now to sell it and rage quit level 4 missions ( or buy a vargur / sleipnir again )

lol

thanks for info guys, but I think my play style demands either sit there and shoot from range, or stupidly fast close range. anything in between I think i rage at.. I'm a pretty bad player tbh


I highlighted your problem and underlined the obvious. You're doing it wrong and blaming one of the best ships eve ever had.

If you are using Kinetic ammo in a mach, that must mean you are shooting Titanium Sabot.....TS is a mid range ammo, not a close range one. Minmatar/Angels don't HAVE a close range kinetic ammo, which is why you use Phased Plasma (bunch of thermal Damage, some Kinetic) against Guristas.

You fly minmatar ships and can do lvl 4s (hell ,you can fly a command ship) and don't know this? Dios Mio.
stoicfaux
#11 - 2012-06-05 13:43:18 UTC
wayz wrote:

thanks for info guys, but I think my play style demands either sit there and shoot from range, or stupidly fast close range. anything in between I think i rage at.. I'm a pretty bad player tbh

Stupidly fast close range == MWD Mach. Here's what I prefer:
http://eve.battleclinic.com/loadout/58393-Machariel-Level-4-Blitzer-MWD-Web-EW-Drones-Minmatar-Space.html

Pon Farr Memorial: once every 7 years, all the carebears in high-sec must PvP or they will be temp-banned.
Flakey Foont
#12 - 2012-06-05 15:29:29 UTC
It's you.
Gambhira Eleanor
Midway Station Industries
#13 - 2012-06-05 15:48:11 UTC
[Machariel, pve]
Gyrostabilizer II
Gyrostabilizer II
Gyrostabilizer II
Tracking Enhancer II
Tracking Enhancer II
Tracking Enhancer II
Damage Control II

Gist A-Type X-Large Shield Booster
Caldari Navy EM Ward Field
Caldari Navy Adaptive Invulnerability Field
Tracking Computer II, Tracking Speed Script
Domination 100MN Afterburner

800mm Repeating Artillery II, Hail L
800mm Repeating Artillery II, Hail L
800mm Repeating Artillery II, Hail L
800mm Repeating Artillery II, Hail L
800mm Repeating Artillery II, Hail L
800mm Repeating Artillery II, Hail L
800mm Repeating Artillery II, Hail L
Auto Targeting System II

Large Anti-Thermal Screen Reinforcer I
Large Capacitor Control Circuit II
Large Capacitor Control Circuit II


Hobgoblin II x5
Vespa EC-600 x5
Warrior II x5


This is mine dusting somewhere when rats need kinetic - explosive on missions. em-therm rat missions choose Nightmare . Performs well. Then again for stupid rats that sensor you choose drone boats. Rattler works fine ,


[Rattlesnake, New Setup 1]
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Capacitor Power Relay II
Damage Control II

100MN MicroWarpdrive II
Caldari Navy EM Ward Field
Caldari Navy Adaptive Invulnerability Field
Gist A-Type X-Large Shield Booster
Omnidirectional Tracking Link II
Target Painter II
Target Painter II

Cruise Missile Launcher II, Nova Fury Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Nova Fury Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Nova Fury Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Nova Fury Cruise Missile
Drone Link Augmentor II
Drone Link Augmentor II

Large Capacitor Control Circuit II
Large Capacitor Control Circuit II
Large Anti-Thermal Screen Reinforcer I


Garde II x5
Bouncer II x5
Ogre II x5
Hobgoblin II x5



All pimped a bit . Cheaper versions also work .
Spineker
#14 - 2012-06-05 18:07:00 UTC
I tried the Mach I didn't like it, too much work really and tracking and moving and all that other stuff. I never understood the love of it but then I was never big on the Large Guns even though I have all of them at 5 besides couple support skills. Yeah it kills and kills well when you get the timing and targetting down.

I agree though with OP when I actually got out using the Mach I was not impressed. Could be me no doubt but whatever.


However I just love my Tengu.
Violet Giraffe
Space Giraffes
#15 - 2012-06-05 18:36:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Violet Giraffe
I am a low-skilled (look at my age and you'll get the idea) Mach pilot, and I'm loving it. In fact, I don't think there is any other ship that would let me run L4 missions as fast - or run L4s at all, for that matter. And I'm mostly fighting Angels for now, so I just sit still and shoot targets, I don't even have a propmod (which I'm not too proud of, I just can't squeeze it in), it is not really required.

Mach vs Vargur is higher DPS vs stronger tank, as far as I understand.
Gambhira Eleanor
Midway Station Industries
#16 - 2012-06-05 19:34:13 UTC
Violet Giraffe wrote:
I am a low-skilled (look at my age and you'll get the idea) Mach pilot, and I'm loving it. In fact, I don't think there is any other ship that would let me run L4 missions as fast - or run L4s at all, for that matter. And I'm mostly fighting Angels for now, so I just sit still and shoot targets, I don't even have a propmod (which I'm not too proud of, I just can't squeeze it in), it is not really required.

Mach vs Vargur is higher DPS vs stronger tank, as far as I understand.



no because with a prop mod the mach have more defence becuase its perma 500+ m/s. Ofc the signature is large but still it cuts a bit. As for angels the ratt will outperform it when it comes to dps. But it is skill intensive more than the mach. to be honest it all depend on what you need to shoot and what are the bonus of the ship. MAch is nice paper dps around 1000-1100 easy but it loose a lot to transversal , range etc. Rattle is around 700-800 on 100km , more closer. It just suck for level 4 as passive cause it cuts a lot from the dps potential
drdxie
#17 - 2012-06-05 20:36:34 UTC
I tried the mach, really didn't like it. For em weak rats the NM is much better, everything else my tengu does great. You don't have to chase down the rats in a tengu like you do in a mach, so it seems to work much better for me. With my skills and fit I can use fury's all the way to cruisers.

Caldari Loving needed.. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1608277&#post1608277
Gambhira Eleanor
Midway Station Industries
#18 - 2012-06-05 22:12:24 UTC
tengu is a nice ship ,good all arounder but limited dps compared to faction BS . Also weak against sensoring as is nightmare and mach ending up losing some time by waiting to be able to lock targets. It all depends on the space you are missioning . And the best excuse of course is .. how much money you willing to spend. At the end how you want to play really impacts the ship you use. Machariel is a ship that it doesnt tank. You roam and kill targets fast before they add to the dps
Nightmare is another approach. Fit tachyons with imp multi , then sit and kill everything , but there are missions you have to skip (heavy EM therm resistant rats) because you will lose on ISK / h . Rattlesnake is my choice because i play this days at gallente space . My nightmare is on ammar rats . Machariel on caldari. Fix your assets and then farm according the needs on market .
Chainsaw Plankton
FaDoyToy
#19 - 2012-06-05 23:34:58 UTC
it sounded like you said you were doing a guristas assault? imo fit arty skip the first room and just kill the last group bam mission done in like 5 mins, jamming is too annoying to do anything else (well except afk drone boat).

fit a t2 rof rig or gtfo! mach gets lulz speed and rofflecopter dps, where the varg gets loot + salvage and can pretty much just sit there and tank stuff as it gets awesome base resists. I like a cap booster on the mach, just in case, although a TC does sound like it would work too.

[Machariel, Angels Ex]
Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer
Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer
Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer
Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer
Tracking Enhancer II
Tracking Enhancer II
Tracking Enhancer II

Dread Guristas X-Large Shield Booster
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Gist X-Type 100MN Afterburner
Heavy Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 800

800mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet EMP L
800mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet EMP L
800mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet EMP L
800mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet EMP L
800mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet EMP L
800mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet EMP L
800mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet EMP L
[empty high slot]

Large Projectile Burst Aerator II
Large Low Friction Nozzle Joints I
[empty rig slot]


Warrior II x5
Bouncer II x4


[Vargur, Varg copy 1]
Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer
Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer
Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer
Tracking Enhancer II
Tracking Enhancer II

X-Large Shield Booster II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range Script
Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range Script
Republic Fleet 100MN Afterburner

800mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet Fusion L
800mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet Fusion L
800mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet Fusion L
800mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet Fusion L
Small Tractor Beam I
Small Tractor Beam I
Salvager II

Large Projectile Burst Aerator II
Large Core Defense Capacitor Safeguard II


Valkyrie II x5
Warrior II x5

@ChainsawPlankto on twitter
Kalli Brixzat
#20 - 2012-06-06 02:29:36 UTC
Violet Giraffe wrote:
I am a low-skilled (look at my age and you'll get the idea) Mach pilot, and I'm loving it. In fact, I don't think there is any other ship that would let me run L4 missions as fast - or run L4s at all, for that matter. And I'm mostly fighting Angels for now, so I just sit still and shoot targets, I don't even have a propmod (which I'm not too proud of, I just can't squeeze it in), it is not really required.


The Mach is VERY forgiving in that it provides excellent tank (mostly the stupid speed) and exceptional DPS. It is certainly one of the 2 or 3 best mission ships in game. Best part is that a PvE-fit Mach actually has a chance in a knife fight vs. gank-fit birds.

Quote:
Mach vs Vargur is higher DPS vs stronger tank, as far as I understand.


You are correct in that difference. But the REAL difference is:

DPS vs. Salvage/loot on the move
12Next page