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High Security Miner Survival Guide
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Little Brat
Provincia Septim Reborn
#1 - 2012-06-03 05:02:20 UTC
HIGH SECURITY MINER SURVIVAL GUIDE

The guide published here is in response to the Goonswarm Federation (curse be upon them lol) announcing on 2012.5.29 that Hulkageddon would be a permanent and continuous threat, and that they would pay ANY pilot in Eve 100mil for killing 10 exhumers. The compiler of this information is ready to advise and coordinate with hisec players who wish to give gankers a run for their money and defend their part of the universe. In the big picture mining in hisec has declined almost by half. This creates opportunities and challenges. Embrace it or not, your choice.

.Based on solo play or with one other, there are THINGS YOU CAN DO IMMEDIATELY.

.Your Hulk and Mackinaw have a 7.5% buff to shield resists use it! There are exotic fits that could bump your Hulk to 20-30k EHP. Go to eve.battleclinic.com for suggestions and ideas on fits. Admittedly, there are very few fits there that I would classify as “emergent” game capable. So I will share fits with those who ask. The longer you can delay your destruction is your goal.
.Stop mining in a Hulk or Mackinaw. Park them in a hanger. When you lose one DO NOT replace it. When you buy or build a T2 exhumer and their mods, you make it profitable for the very alliances and federations that support your destruction! They produce technetium (moon goo) which is used extensively in Hulk manufacturing and which profits pay the gankers bounties. This is the economic side of the issue and is a very important aspect of the assault on hisec miners. I stress again, do not economically support nullsec megacorps and STOP BUYING Hulks and Mackinaws. Will this have an impact? Who is to know? That is one of many very cool things about Eve. You…yes YOU have the capability to influence outcomes! And if someone somewhere wakes up the silent majority, this could be epic. CCP loves the social experiment, something for the journals, definitely historic, and now cross platform playing? Wicked good times!

.Mine asteroids in a Coveter or Retriever using T1 mods. Mine ice in a Procurer or Retriever also with T1 mods. When you purchase an exhumer, you need to be aware of the ROI (return on investment). If a ship can yield 6mil per hour and it cost 159mil (a battleship fit) it will take you 26.5 hours of continuous production before the ship becomes profitable. If a Coveter costs 150 mil and can earn 20mil per hour it takes 7.5 hours to be profitable. If a Hulk costs 250mil and mods conservatively another 150mil and you can earn 30mil per hour…it will take you 13 hours of continuous production to break even. If you can’t stay alive long enough to break even you are losing on another level. Examine the ROI and the cost benefit and you may find in many cases that the biggest and most bad ass may not be the most cost effective. Ore and ice prices are expected to go up. With fewer miners willing to confront the threat means more for those who do. So man up.

.No ORE ship is safer than another; it is the replacement cost that matters. YOU WILL LOSE YOUR SHIP at some point just expect it and move on. How much and how often you lose is entirely up to you! The gankers want you to b**ch and moan and cry about losing your ship. They live for the “tears” as well as the 100mil bounties. There are also deeply felt philosophical issues that a player should not be able to earn isk while afk (akin to botting). Or that the miner is a mindless boring cyborg willing to sit for hours on end staring into space and is therefore unworthy of existence in Eve (also akin to botting). There are some who HATE hisec miners so purely as to be a religious calling. Jesus! No pun intended. In their passion to kill you they are sophisticated. They may have a cloaked spotter…they may use probes…they will squad warp to targets (this would be you btw)…they will have weapons grouped, overloaded, and hot keyed. They may have a nearby Orca that will jettison ships for their pods. They will attack you in Thrashers, Catalysts, and Tornados (other ships too) and strive for DPS of 600 to 700 at minimum. They may use drones, they may warp scramble you. If you are just starting to align…it is too late…you have been caught with your pants down.

.Or have an alt shoot at you in a noob ship to attract CONCORD to your belt where they will hang around for a bit. Your alt will take a security hit and lose his ship…but that is what alts are for. In this case the gankers may try to ‘draw off’ CONCORD by creating a diversion elsewhere if they are intent on your destruction.

.Or mine in a battleship. A tricked out Dom including large rigs is about 160 mil though its hourly yield is about one third of a Coveter. The cost of doing business is reflected in the cost of goods, so sell accordingly…duh! Immediately, sell trit for 10 and nothing less…and if you can afford to last, you will get that price.

.Keep watch on the directional scanner (dscan) for threatening ships (mentioned above) and align when in doubt. If you don’t know how to do this ask for help!

.Know your enemy. Watch this video on youtube: Eve Online: A gentleman’s Guide to Ganking Exhumers

.Read the Eve General Discussion forums at least every other day. There is often good intelligence posted there. Occasionally, you will find a gem in the rough that makes the forums not completely useless. It is data mining lol!

second page to follow

Our corporate symbol is a blue Egyptian Ankh representing pure eternal life, surrounded by 8 gold stars representing The Eightfold Path on a red background representing sacrifice and committment to the everliving, beloved of Ptah...
Little Brat
Provincia Septim Reborn
#2 - 2012-06-03 05:04:19 UTC
Continued from page 1

.If you are in a 2-10 member corp or an npc corp, you can kiss your ass good bye...you are a prime target. Professional gankers will know everything about you, your corp, your CEO and your alliance (if any). How they may investigate you (or you them) is outlined several paragraphs below. Professional gankers are in the business for profit…hobby gankers could care less about profit and gank for the thrill. The attacking of unarmed defenseless exhumers and if this is true PvP is hotly debated.
.Set up hot keys (having nothing to do with debates) and safes, know about overloading. Ask if you don’t to understand.
.A quote from the forums (that you should be reading) “It is time for miners to give the gankers what they want: supertanked hulks with logistics support supplying tritanium to the market at 10ISK/unit, requiring a fleet of alpha tornadoes to single-shot them.” Mara Rinn, Cosmic Industrial Complex, 2012.05.31. I have seen Coveters shield tanked with their hauler shield repping…effective? A hobby ganker will probably pass and look for something easier while a professional ganker may like the challenge. You don’t know until you are attacked. I would love to hear your stories!

.Be situationally aware. Know what is going on around you. There is some corps you should set your contact to red. They are: Bondage Goat Zombies; Dead Terrorists; Dreddit; Goonswarm Federation; GoonSwarm; Test Alliance Please Ignore and The Three Six Mafia. There are others for sure. There may be individuals that need to be set red. If a corp allows one of its members to gank, the corp is suspect and set it rather than the individual red. Obviously, when a corp is set red, all of its members will be red to you. Local is your friend…use it. If you are going to mine in a system, you need to know who is in that system. ‘Show Info” on every character in local. Mark those you deem a threat red or orange and everybody else neutral so it is easier to see new or transiting characters. You can investigate characters further by the four steps below found on Evelopedia:
• Google search: eve online + Character Name. The most amazing stuff comes up.
• evewho.com This is very useful for info on corps and characters.
• Check their kill boards for ships flown etc.
• crime and punishment forums -- Do a search for that character's name (although a Google search should cover it).
.Understand that CCP will not interfere as they consider ganking a legitimate style of play. If a play style or process doesn’t break the TOS (terms of service) or EULA (end users license agreement), then it is fair game.

THINGS TO DO IN THE SHORT TERM.

.Another quote from the forums.

“…killing hulkageddon would be farcically easy between creating an information resource for hisec miners detailing fits, preparation, tactics, etc; an updated watchlist of known gankers with km proof; and moderated regional intel channels…” (I would like to attribute this quote but I didn’t think about it at the time, sincerely sorry)

Please substitute the word universe whenever you see the word sandbox so that the actual dimension of this game and the characters role therein, becomes better appreciated, less hateful maybe.

I am woefully behind in many Eve experiences. Reminds me of a story. There were two bulls on a hill overlooking a valley full of cows, an old bull and a young bull. The young bull turns to the elder and says “let’s run down there and get one or two of em!” The old bull responded “Why don’t we walk down and git em all? And so it is how I play Eve.

Lastly, when all else fails and your enjoyment of Eve diminishes to the point that you can no longer justify paying to play, unsub. CCP understands this very well. Please don’t lament on the forums about quitting. When you unsub, CCP will ask you why...to them you may rant. Fly smart.

Our corporate symbol is a blue Egyptian Ankh representing pure eternal life, surrounded by 8 gold stars representing The Eightfold Path on a red background representing sacrifice and committment to the everliving, beloved of Ptah...
Alara IonStorm
#3 - 2012-06-03 05:09:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Alara IonStorm
All that work for a low paying AFK job... just run Missions in a big ol Battleship.

More ISK and even more AFK then gankers think you should be in an Exhumer.
Makkal Hanaya
Revenent Defence Corperation
#4 - 2012-06-03 05:21:31 UTC
Little Brat wrote:
In the big picture mining in hisec has declined almost by half.

May I ask for your source for this statement?

Render unto Khanid the things which are Khanid's; and unto God the things that are God's.
Little Brat
Provincia Septim Reborn
#5 - 2012-06-03 05:32:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Little Brat
Makkal Hanaya wrote:
Little Brat wrote:
In the big picture mining in hisec has declined almost by half.

May I ask for your source for this statement?


Indeed, you may ask. It was something I gleened from the forums, I recall something specific though I did not know exactly.

was porbablly a goon post anyway lol

Our corporate symbol is a blue Egyptian Ankh representing pure eternal life, surrounded by 8 gold stars representing The Eightfold Path on a red background representing sacrifice and committment to the everliving, beloved of Ptah...
Alara IonStorm
#6 - 2012-06-03 05:41:33 UTC
Makkal Hanaya wrote:
Little Brat wrote:
In the big picture mining in hisec has declined almost by half.

May I ask for your source for this statement?

Here.
Virgil Travis
Non Constructive Self Management
#7 - 2012-06-03 05:42:33 UTC
Makkal Hanaya wrote:
Little Brat wrote:
In the big picture mining in hisec has declined almost by half.

May I ask for your source for this statement?


I would imagine it is based on posts reporting this statistic from CCP Diagoras on Twitter.

John Turbefield ‏ @CCP_Diagoras wrote:
Compared to the 7 day average before Escalation, the last 7 days have seen a 45.53% decrease in average m3 of ore mined within high sec.

Unified Church of the Unobligated - madness in the method Mamma didn't raise no victims.
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#8 - 2012-06-03 05:44:16 UTC
Little Brat wrote:
Makkal Hanaya wrote:
Little Brat wrote:
In the big picture mining in hisec has declined almost by half.

May I ask for your source for this statement?


Indeed, you may ask. It was something I gleened from the forums, I recall something specific though I did not know exactly.

was porbablly a goon post anyway lol



CCP Diagoras tweeted that Had mining had decreased by about 40% a week or so into HAG.

In the meantime, here are some options you might try during this trying time.

1. Continue Mining like normal and Accept the losses
2. Continue Mining as normal but in a Covetor and Accept the losses
3. Mine in a Rokh, comfortably immune* to Suicide Ganks
4. Tank your Hulk and Accept a lower number of Losses from edge case profit based ganks.
5. Tank your Hulk with RR and be comfortable immune to Suicide Ganks
6. Mine in a Normally Fit Hulk but use a short range D-Scan to escape ganks
7. Set up safespots such that you can maintain a rough orbit in range of a roid by aligning to each BM in turn
8. Set up Hulks to Web each other, mine aligned to 1 SS at 7m/s (warpable speed) (can be done @ max yield)
9. Watch local for known gankers, accept the occasional gank from unknown ganks
10. Mine in Mission pockets
11. Mine in Grav Sites, occasionally scanning D-Scan
12. Tank your Hulk and have friends in BLAP AC Nados ready to shoot (one should kill a Cat before you die, failing the gank)
13. Tank your Hulk and have friends with ECM
14. Tank your Hulk and run 5x Med ECM drones and accept that you'll die if they fail
15. Mine in Lowsec (can be done solo in a quiet system)
16. Mine in Null (can be done solo in a quiet NPC sov system)
17. Mine in WH space

*all cases of immunity from Suicide Ganks assume profit-based ganks. Non-Profit based ganks are rare and are not something that can be negated by game mechanics changes besides eliminating ganks, thus can be ignored.

All of these options have advantages and disadvantages. All of them will work. Not all of them are perfect.

If ALL of these options do not work for you, please describe your very special situation, and I'll come up with a custom solution or call you names. You know, depending...

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
Little Brat
Provincia Septim Reborn
#9 - 2012-06-03 05:55:02 UTC
RubyPorto wrote:
Little Brat wrote:
Makkal Hanaya wrote:
Little Brat wrote:
In the big picture mining in hisec has declined almost by half.

May I ask for your source for this statement?


Indeed, you may ask. It was something I gleened from the forums, I recall something specific though I did not know exactly.

was porbablly a goon post anyway lol



CCP Diagoras tweeted that Had mining had decreased by about 40% a week or so into HAG.

In the meantime, here are some options you might try during this trying time.

1. Continue Mining like normal and Accept the losses
2. Continue Mining as normal but in a Covetor and Accept the losses
3. Mine in a Rokh, comfortably immune* to Suicide Ganks
4. Tank your Hulk and Accept a lower number of Losses from edge case profit based ganks.
5. Tank your Hulk with RR and be comfortable immune to Suicide Ganks
6. Mine in a Normally Fit Hulk but use a short range D-Scan to escape ganks
7. Set up safespots such that you can maintain a rough orbit in range of a roid by aligning to each BM in turn
8. Set up Hulks to Web each other, mine aligned to 1 SS at 7m/s (warpable speed) (can be done @ max yield)
9. Watch local for known gankers, accept the occasional gank from unknown ganks
10. Mine in Mission pockets
11. Mine in Grav Sites, occasionally scanning D-Scan
12. Tank your Hulk and have friends in BLAP AC Nados ready to shoot (one should kill a Cat before you die, failing the gank)
13. Tank your Hulk and have friends with ECM
14. Tank your Hulk and run 5x Med ECM drones and accept that you'll die if they fail
15. Mine in Lowsec (can be done solo in a quiet system)
16. Mine in Null (can be done solo in a quiet NPC sov system)
17. Mine in WH space

*all cases of immunity from Suicide Ganks assume profit-based ganks. Non-Profit based ganks are rare and are not something that can be negated by game mechanics changes besides eliminating ganks, thus can be ignored.

All of these options have advantages and disadvantages. All of them will work. Not all of them are perfect.

If ALL of these options do not work for you, please describe your very special situation, and I'll come up with a custom solution or call you names. You know, depending...


You are freaking awesome...I mean that!

Our corporate symbol is a blue Egyptian Ankh representing pure eternal life, surrounded by 8 gold stars representing The Eightfold Path on a red background representing sacrifice and committment to the everliving, beloved of Ptah...
malcovas Henderson
THoF
#10 - 2012-06-03 06:03:15 UTC


Arrow MOVE out of Caldari space.

Caldari space appears to have the biggest concentration of kills. If you are not there, you are not on the Gankers list of hits.

Arrow Be atleast six jumps from any Trade Hub

Again like Caldari space. Trade Hubs are also a magnet for Gankers. Distancing yourself from where Gankers roam, increases your safety.

Arrow Use only Systems with less than 15 players in them

Being able to use local, is important to seeing who is in system. It becomes more apparent a Gank is incomming, if you can see the spike in local. Generally Dscanning, once someone jumps in, can tell you what ship they're flying. Dessie's and Nado's should press alarm bells. 4 dessies = GTFO

Arrow Chat to locals, Make friends with other players in your system.

This allows you to form intel and opinions, of the players in that system. You get to learn what ships they fly, and what career they follow. As a rule locals do not gank other locals.

Arrow Create a Chat Room with said locals. Use this Chat room for keeping Intel, and socialising.

A chat room is a good tool to have. Use the MOTD, to display potential Gankers and other useful infomation. Invite those that you are comfortable with. Use this chat, to remain in contact, without having to reveal any Intel into local chat. Those travelling to Trade Hubs can send back Intel back via this Chat room. Although not a given rule, But those in the chat room would not be potential gankers.

Arrow Use this new community to helping each other.

Cooperation is possibly the one tool, to beat all tools. Fleeting up and boosting other miners is appreciated, and forms good will. When you Haul to a Trade hub, try to take everyones stuff as well. This reduces the amount of Hauling being done. A simple courier contract, and job is done. Sharing knowledge and experiences help make the community stronger.

Arrow TANK YOUR HULK!!!!!!

Tanking your Hulk, reduces the window of oppotunity of the ganker. 1 dessie on Dscan, becomes irrevelent. It would take a fleet of dessies, to take you out. Being situated where you are. you'd see this coming a mile off.

Arrow DONT mine, when potential threats are in system.

Goes without saying. If you are unsure of the safety of the system. Dont undock in an Indy.

Arrow Don't mine continously.

Take a break once in a while. Break up your routine. Do some scanning. Missions, or Ratting. A gang of Gankers could arrive at your system, while you are doing anyone of these. If you offer them no target, they soon leave.

Arrow DON'T AFK mine.

The ultimate no brainer. If you are not there, you cannot see danger incomming. This one act invalidates all of the above. You DESERVE to lose your ship.
Price Check Aisle3
#11 - 2012-06-03 06:08:24 UTC
I feel like you should have posted this on your "Slow P Oke" alt because this information has literally been bukkaked all over this forum.
  • Karl Hobb IATS
Aramatheia
Tiffany and Co.
#12 - 2012-06-03 06:08:28 UTC
mine in a covetor with an orca, you can cover the cost of the barge hull in a couple of hours (thanks in part to inflated ore value currently).

Mining pays less than missions cause when mining aside from ganking there is no threat. If RL comes knocking (literally) you can get up answer the door come back and find your ship still alive. No longer cycling beams though obviously (unless one is botting then dammit wheres a ganker when you need em). Something ppl seem to overlook with mining, they think a person can go to bed and wake up the next day with a million ore mysteriously squeezed through hyperspace from thier barge into the station. Doesnt work like that (again unless they are botting).

If i get up from my game im not all the sudden cheating cause my beams still stop cycling when my hold caps out, Just saying is all, so the anti barge'ers can perhaps differentiate
Makkal Hanaya
Revenent Defence Corperation
#13 - 2012-06-03 06:15:24 UTC
Alara IonStorm wrote:
Makkal Hanaya wrote:
Little Brat wrote:
In the big picture mining in hisec has declined almost by half.

May I ask for your source for this statement?

Here.

Virgil Travis wrote:
I would imagine it is based on posts reporting this statistic from CCP Diagoras on Twitter.

John Turbefield ‏ @CCP_Diagoras wrote:
Compared to the 7 day average before Escalation, the last 7 days have seen a 45.53% decrease in average m3 of ore mined within high sec.

Thank you both. I was unaware CCP had a Twitter feed.

Render unto Khanid the things which are Khanid's; and unto God the things that are God's.
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#14 - 2012-06-03 06:53:50 UTC
Makkal Hanaya wrote:

Thank you both. I was unaware CCP had a Twitter feed.


Not only does CCP Have a Twitterfeed
@CCP_Games

But several Devs do as well.

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
DeMichael Crimson
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#15 - 2012-06-03 07:17:36 UTC
Too much time involved to start quoting and debating. Nice thread title though, basically the intention behind this thread is to keep Industrial players mining.

Remember, we're not talking about a few players going around ganking ships every once in a while. This is a coordinated effort being done by a few very large Alliances and their allies. If a gank can't be done solo, they will just call in the rest of the pack.

These so called guidelines outlined in this thread might protect Industrial ships belonging to a large corporation but that's very doubtful considering WarDec will eliminate the Gankers losing their ships to Concord. What this thread is trying to do is give gankers richer targets all grouped together. This thread and other so called 'helpful' threads being posted are designed and created specifically to give the illusion that Industrial ships can be made relatively safer and encourage players to continue mining.

The reason for that is so gankers can continue enjoying unrestricted griefing and harassment towards players who actively engage in a specific aspect of gameplay content.

The best thing for Industrialists to do right now is STOP mining. Plain and simple.

It may seem like the griefing tards have won but actually it hurts them a lot, especially since they will no longer have any easy targets available. Some of them may say they'll enjoy warping around from belt to belt for hours on end looking for targets but the reality is they won't have anything to show for it, no lol's, no killmail and definitely no ISK.

As for the Industrialists, definitely submit complaints to CCP and think about engaging in another type of gameplay activity. If no other aspect of gameplay interests you, then unsub. Contrary to what these gankers say, you have the right to voice your opinion about this game, it's playerbase and CCP as long as it abides by the Forum Rules. Just keep it short, sweet and to the point, don't rage or give any details about why you're quitting and after posting it, don't reply to it.

As been demonstrated in the past, if an issue is constantly being brought to CCP's attention, they will eventually take action which usually involves swinging the nerf and buff bats.

DMC

'The Plan' | California Eve Players | Proposal - The Endless Battle
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#16 - 2012-06-03 08:05:00 UTC  |  Edited by: RubyPorto
DeMichael Crimson wrote:

As been demonstrated in the past, if an issue is constantly being brought to CCP's attention, they will eventually take action which usually involves swinging the nerf and buff bats.

DMC


1) What rules are Gankers breaking?

2) Where has CCP said anywhere in EvE should be safe (let alone HS)?

3) Why do you play a game that doesn't offer the content you prefer?

4) If you believe in something, why do you suggest that it's wrong to stand up and argue for it?

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
Alara IonStorm
#17 - 2012-06-03 08:14:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Alara IonStorm
RubyPorto wrote:

1) What rules are Gankers breaking?

No rules need be broken for a change to be made.
RubyPorto wrote:

2) Where has CCP said anywhere in EvE should be safe (let alone HS)?

Depends on if you want safe.

DMC never used the word safe at all. T1 Mining Barges are woefully undertanked in all things, Industrials never got the HP Boosts Combats Ships got and Exhumers tend to have terrible fitting as shown by the 2 PG Mods you need to even fit a T2 Medium Shield Extender and T2 Strips.

Their are steps to be taken that can cushion people who take precaution while giving nothing to the empty midslot brigade. A lot of in space Industry tools are antiquated balance wise while Combat capability goes up. That is a pretty legit grievance.
RubyPorto wrote:

3) Why do you play a game that doesn't offer the content you prefer?

EVE has a lot more to offer then just Industry but that doesn't mean you should not campaign for a change to other mechanics that are in poor shape.
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#18 - 2012-06-03 08:42:57 UTC
Alara IonStorm wrote:
RubyPorto wrote:

1) What rules are Gankers breaking?

No rules need be broken for a change to be made.
RubyPorto wrote:

2) Where has CCP said anywhere in EvE should be safe (let alone HS)?

Depends on if you want safe.

DMC never used the word safe at all. T1 Mining Barges are woefully undertanked in all things, Industrials never got the HP Boosts Combats Ships got and Exhumers tend to have terrible fitting as shown by the 2 PG Mods you need to even fit a T2 Medium Shield Extender and T2 Strips.

Their are steps to be taken that can cushion people who take precaution while giving nothing to the empty midslot brigade. A lot of in space Industry tools are antiquated balance wise while Combat capability goes up. That is a pretty legit grievance.
RubyPorto wrote:

3) Why do you play a game that doesn't offer the content you prefer?

EVE has a lot more to offer then just Industry but that doesn't mean you should not campaign for a change to other mechanics that are in poor shape.


I'd love to see industrial mechanics change. Active mining, moon goo changes (ring mining), manufacture/research changes, etc would be fantastic. But that's not what we're talking about in these threads. Miners are calling for safety. They're calling for safety with some of the worst thought out, bad ideas I've ever seen.

A tank buff to Hulks is not an industrial mechanics change.

I see plenty of calls for new mining ships. When it's pointed out that CCP has explicity said the Hulk is the be-all-end-all in yield and a new ship with extra tank (Rokh) or cloakiness (Hulk w/ Cloak, Rokh w/Cloak) would have a lower yield than the Hulk and thus never be used, there's no answer.

A Hulk can be tanked to survive 0.0 rats. It can also be tanked such that it is unprofitable to gank even with the newly buffed Catalysts. What more tank does it need? If miners choose to give up an effective tank in order to increase their yield, that's their CHOICE.

As for the ridiculous idea that a fit requiring fitting mods is bad,
The Scimitar (with Logi 5) needs to fit 7 fitting mods/rigs (out of 15 total slots) to do its job with any degree of efficiency
The 100mn Tengu (absurdly OP) needs an Officer Reactor Control and a T2 ACR to fit its tank, does it need a buff?
The AHAC Zealot needs a fitting mod to fit its tank, do Zealots need a buff?
Alpha Maelstrom: ACR to fit
The only ship classes that don't regularly need fitting mods are the close range BCs and BSes.

The hulk needs fitting mods to fit its maximum tank so that there's an actual choice to be made between tanking it and going for yield (if you can have both, not having both is stupid, not a choice).

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
Alara IonStorm
#19 - 2012-06-03 09:44:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Alara IonStorm
RubyPorto wrote:

I see plenty of calls for new mining ships. When it's pointed out that CCP has explicity said the Hulk is the be-all-end-all in yield and a new ship with extra tank (Rokh) or cloakiness (Hulk w/ Cloak, Rokh w/Cloak) would have a lower yield than the Hulk and thus never be used, there's no answer.

That is because those idea's are terrible and should be ignored.
RubyPorto wrote:

A Hulk can be tanked to survive 0.0 rats. It can also be tanked such that it is unprofitable to gank even with the newly buffed Catalysts. What more tank does it need? If miners choose to give up an effective tank in order to increase their yield, that's their CHOICE.

Well now that I know it can be tanked to take on the absolutely Uber 0.0 Rats well...

If Miners choose to give up every bit of utility on their ship they can survive a Destroyer in Highsec. Good thing every ship doesn't need to give up all utility or Mining isn't the only thing that would drop by half.
RubyPorto wrote:

As for the ridiculous idea that a fit requiring fitting mods is bad,
The Scimitar (with Logi 5) needs to fit 7 fitting mods/rigs (out of 15 total slots) to do its job with any degree of efficiency
The 100mn Tengu (absurdly OP) needs an Officer Reactor Control and a T2 ACR to fit its tank, does it need a buff?
The AHAC Zealot needs a fitting mod to fit its tank, do Zealots need a buff?
Alpha Maelstrom: ACR to fit

Scimatar needs 7 Fitting Mods... Sure with its 2 Rig Slots and 4 Lows.
A Cruiser with a Battleship AB needs extra fitting...
Some AHAC Zealots use a fitting mod with a Battleship sized Plate and the largest Guns. Give the Hulk the ability to use a 1600mm Plate and you can make that argument.

Truth is the Hulk has 2 Low Slots and 2 Rig Slots so if you fit a tank that is all you are fitting unlike combat ships that are rutinely fit with other stuff like Damage Mods and DCU's. What is more it is a tiny Medium Shield Extender it is trying to fit.
RubyPorto wrote:

The hulk needs fitting mods to fit its maximum tank so that there's an actual choice to be made between tanking it and going for yield (if you can have both, not having both is stupid, not a choice).

All ships should follow your fitting theory. No Damage Mods if you fit a tank, one or the other. The Hurricane wants a Large Shield Extender and Damage Mods... Not if RubyPorto has anything to say about it.

Gankers seem to literally freak out at the concept of a MSE fitted easily to a Hulk like it can be to Destroyer like the world will end if it could be. Choice of no utility should not even be an argument in this.
Nomad I
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#20 - 2012-06-03 09:49:54 UTC
Even Hulks with 30k EHP can be popped with only 4 catalysts. HighSec will never be save.
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