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EVE New Citizens Q&A

 
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IS CCP interested in feedback from new players?

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MotherMoon
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#21 - 2012-06-01 08:25:21 UTC
Django Returns wrote:
I just saw few days ago some trailers about eve and all the new stuff. Someone said they just keep on making new fee addons and adding new content to the game.

Is CCP interested to hear what new players think about the first 15 minutes or the first hour in EVE?


I suggested the animation for the autocannons be graphical lots of little bullets. and then they did it! : D

http://dl.eve-files.com/media/1206/scimi.jpg
MotherMoon
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#22 - 2012-06-01 08:37:17 UTC  |  Edited by: MotherMoon
Django Returns wrote:
There is nothing wrong with reading if it suites a situation or a purpose. All adventure games from 1980 til 1996 were only playable if you read. The point here is that you got, what you expected a adventure game to be.

My 3 friends told me that they expected something else with playing EVE. You see some trialers, hear stories about huge posibilities and freedom in EVE, about players forming corperations and flying in fancy spaceships. Decisons matter in EVE.
Sorry, but what decisions? Do you mean my bad standing with the minmatar? To buy a laser with 9000m or 11250m range?

Tell me the big decision a player has to make within the first 2 weeks? The area of space where someone is going to fly with his/her ship. Amarr Homeworlds or maybe JITA? The big impact of choosing one npc corp over the other to get LP? Help a mining ship while it is beeing attacked? Sorry, i have not seen other ships flown by human beeings in my firist 2 weeks in EVE online. Taking and fullfilling a mission or canceling it? I already can her some ppl thinking: but you can go pvp, mine, missionrunning, trading, etc...

But never forget one thing: I am talking about very early game and since this game is about freedom and sandbox, i should not be forced to join immediately a player corp to experience all the beauty within EVE.


Once you started drinking the cool aid in EVE all the stuff i am talking here about will not concern you. Players in "midgame" or "lategame" will of course have their concerns about things that they have to deal every day. I just saw all that rageposts about new invenotry. But I LOVE the new inventory and i absolutly can not understand what they are talking about. But i would support them because they are not without reason raging.

I just assume, based on observation, that many players quit their trial phase VERY VERY early and do not get the chance to see the beauty of EVE. But who knows, maybe some of the new players just do not get EVE. They do not understand how Eve is supposed to be played ;)


It's true a lot of bitter vets are all like "blah blah blah, eve is hard you have to join a corp" and honestly they ARE half right. but there really is nothing to do in eve when you 1st join that makes a dent in the world. Unless you have friends who allready play. That said you get 1-2 months into eve and it's awesome. *used to be 8 months :P* The sandbox really ins't IN high sec, it's in low sec and 0.0, wormhole space, and so on.

You can join FW now from day 1 now, which imo is one the best changes ever made. every shot changes the market prices and systems in space.

I think the big change to eve to give new new players something to do to have an impact will be to add something to WiS that anyone can do. like become a pro poker player or such. i don't know it's tricky. Think about it from this point of view.

Your friends quit in an hour because they read all of the possibility eve had to offer, and were upset they couldn't access that content in the 1st hour. Eve is a social game, who will you make an impact solo? I mean you can play solo, but even then if you run FW missons solo, or go on solo roams into low sec and find that miner to save, you're still interacting with other players.

So like in real life, if you want to stay in highsec *in doors* for months you won't see the sandbox. because the sandbox is at the playground down the street. But be careful , the playground is full of bullies that want to knock down your sandcastle.

oh, and how could i forget, join RvB. That's fun, and if you really want you can just be a shutin and solo roam all day in frigates. it's fun : ) ninja salvage, make eve videos, have fun with it.

http://dl.eve-files.com/media/1206/scimi.jpg
CCP Sisyphus
C C P
C C P Alliance
#23 - 2012-06-01 08:49:43 UTC  |  Edited by: CCP Sisyphus
I am especially interested in the first 15 min- hour of gameplay!!!
Right now I'll be digging into whats been said in this thread, but keep that feedback flowing!!

We are very aware of the issues in the first minutes, and looking at ways to fix the "first impressions".

CCP Sisyphus | Team TriLambda | Team Klang | @CCP_Sisyphus
Rek Seven
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#24 - 2012-06-01 09:14:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Rek Seven
Django Returns wrote:

I assume i have warpdrive in my ships but do i really have to read sooo many pages of manual to do anything? I am talking here about the first 90 seconds. I understand that EVE can get complex, but why not present that complexity in a better way?


What could be better than requiring players to exit the game, type "how the **** do i play eve" into google and then have them spend 15 minutes reading a wiki? Blink

The wishlist is pretty much complete...
Rek Seven
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#25 - 2012-06-01 09:14:35 UTC
DeBingJos
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#26 - 2012-06-01 09:39:20 UTC
CCP Sisyphus wrote:
I am especially interested in the first 15 min- hour of gameplay!!!
Right now I'll be digging into whats been said in this thread, but keep that feedback flowing!!

We are very aware of the issues in the first minutes, and looking at ways to fix the "first impressions".


The tutorial, they are still bad.

I redid the new tuturials on a new char last year. They were better than when I started to play eve, but there were still huge problems.

Sometimes they required me to buy stuff from the market without stating that this was intentional or even possible. Some confusing objectives in space. (Even for an experienced player like me)

And maybe the biggest problem: After you have done the turorials you should get better directions to player corps, and how to find them. Also try to give some directions after the tutorials what the new player can do ingame and how to find other like-minded people. Nothing is worse then a new player finishing the tutorials and asking the question: "now what?". I think this is the point where a lot of people move on to other games.

Ungi maðurinn þekkir reglurnar, en gamli maðurinn þekkir undantekningarnar. The young man knows the rules, but the old man knows the exceptions.

Django Returns
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#27 - 2012-06-01 13:11:45 UTC
Quote:
What could be better than requiring players to exit the game, type "how the **** do i play eve" into google and then have them spend 15 minutes reading a wiki?


One does not simple stop a game after 90 seconds, go read manuals how to do the simple things, and come back to enjoy the game. YOU just want to play a GAME with SPACESHIPS.
Do not make trivial things complicated.. Do not get me wrong: CHANGE NOTHING in lategame. I assume that is the core gameplay.
But in beginning you need a specific task, a specific motivation which results in determination to solve it. This is still a game and new players want to enjoy it and not focus their lives on it. Only if you know what your goal or destination are, you can walk or fly your way.

Get rid of the "lost in space" feeling and bring all the best things from eve to the a player in his very early stage of gameplaytime.
This Sister of EVE epic arc is a nice try, but i did not get the feeling, that any of my actions had any impact and all the missions could have been done in 1 single system. Why am i flying around? What is the motivation? To see the differenct shades of spacebackground colours (nebulas), get new ship or more ISK?
Hargrim Motsu
Causa Ignota
#28 - 2012-06-01 15:40:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Hargrim Motsu
I'm about a week in and I thought I'd add my impressions.

First off...I just finished all the tutorial missions last night, and the only one I really had problems with was the scanning one. Read the mission, tried it, reread the mission, tried again, reread again, tried. I ended up declining that mission; the only one I declined. I can learn how to scan later on my own.

Also, at the very beginning, it wasn't clear regarding the possible locations for items. But I only needed to leave the mission item in my item hanger once (what do you mean I can't complete the mission? Where are the documents? Arg!). I'm trainable. :)

But...I am hooked. Seriously hooked. I'm looking forward to starting the Sisters of Eve arc, discovering more systems. I'm doing a little mining on the side for income supplementation. Last night I ran a full Badger load of Trit into a .5 system to sell. Nothing too dangerous, but for my skill level, plenty exciting indeed. And I have my next two weeks of training planned out with evemon so I can be Cruiser ready.

I needed to edit to add this -- do not get rid of the "lost in space" feeling. That's the beauty of it. So much to learn. So much to explore. So much to discover. Midgame? Endgame? What's that? The beauty I see in EVE is that all of is the game.
MotherMoon
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#29 - 2012-06-01 15:51:04 UTC
Django Returns wrote:
Quote:
What could be better than requiring players to exit the game, type "how the **** do i play eve" into google and then have them spend 15 minutes reading a wiki?


One does not simple stop a game after 90 seconds, go read manuals how to do the simple things, and come back to enjoy the game. YOU just want to play a GAME with SPACESHIPS.
Do not make trivial things complicated.. Do not get me wrong: CHANGE NOTHING in lategame. I assume that is the core gameplay.
But in beginning you need a specific task, a specific motivation which results in determination to solve it. This is still a game and new players want to enjoy it and not focus their lives on it. Only if you know what your goal or destination are, you can walk or fly your way.

Get rid of the "lost in space" feeling and bring all the best things from eve to the a player in his very early stage of gameplaytime.
This Sister of EVE epic arc is a nice try, but i did not get the feeling, that any of my actions had any impact and all the missions could have been done in 1 single system. Why am i flying around? What is the motivation? To see the differenct shades of spacebackground colours (nebulas), get new ship or more ISK?


Is a very good point... I will ponder a bit

How to let a new player have a impact that lasts forever, in the 1st 5 hours... Do you have any ideas? Maybe... Eve needs missions to be like gw2 and other mmos have been doing. Where they don't even have quests or quest givers anymore. Throw missions into space, let muliple players come across large areas of space in each starting area that only let in frigates and complete as a group over time ? I mean I know its fake persistent, but it would feel more like a sandbox than the repeating missions of today.

That and comets , expolration being tied to mining as mentioned years ago, and npc corps getting thier own baby conflicts with wars that invovle npcs.... Hmmmmmmmm

Like incursions, but for rookie ships

http://dl.eve-files.com/media/1206/scimi.jpg
Rek Seven
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#30 - 2012-06-01 15:57:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Rek Seven
Django Returns wrote:
Quote:
What could be better than requiring players to exit the game, type "how the **** do i play eve" into google and then have them spend 15 minutes reading a wiki?


One does not simple stop a game after 90 seconds, go read manuals how to do the simple things, and come back to enjoy the game. YOU just want to play a GAME with SPACESHIPS.
Do not make trivial things complicated.. Do not get me wrong: CHANGE NOTHING in lategame. I assume that is the core gameplay.
But in beginning you need a specific task, a specific motivation which results in determination to solve it. This is still a game and new players want to enjoy it and not focus their lives on it. Only if you know what your goal or destination are, you can walk or fly your way.

Get rid of the "lost in space" feeling and bring all the best things from eve to the a player in his very early stage of gameplaytime.
This Sister of EVE epic arc is a nice try, but i did not get the feeling, that any of my actions had any impact and all the missions could have been done in 1 single system. Why am i flying around? What is the motivation? To see the differenct shades of spacebackground colours (nebulas), get new ship or more ISK?


I completely agree with you. I was just being sarcastic.

The tutorial isn't really fit for purpose in my opinion. It look me months before i started fitting me ships right. I was flying around with shield and armour tanked ships because the tutorial led me to believe that was what i was supposed to do.

They need to treat new players as if they have no previous knowledge of the EVE or any MMO for that matter. Give them a brief history of EVE > Explain what it means to be a Capsuleer > teach players how to fit a ship > teach them how to control a ship > teach them how to set up the overview and what it all means. Then the current tutorials should be renamed "career paths", which players choose once they have learned the basics.

The wishlist is pretty much complete...
Khanh'rhh
Sparkle Motion.
#31 - 2012-06-01 16:53:33 UTC
Django Returns wrote:
Tell me the big decision a player has to make within the first 2 weeks?

In my case it was whether to stand and fight a group who wardecced us, or dock and hide.

I chose option C.

I defected to the other side and took with me all the intel needed to destroy my previous corp. I got about 350mil for doing this (enough to PLEX, back then) and I joined their alt corp and learned PVP alongside them.

The choices aren't about what to put on your ship (if you'd have watched the trailers, that should be obvious) but what you do to the people you meet.

Had I have not done what I did nothing I would have done up till now would be the same, and the 100bil or so of damages I have caused either wouldn't have happened, or happened to someone else.

That's the butterfly effect in action. The thing is, you can't observe chaos theory by looking forwards, we can only see it looking back.

"Do not touch anything unnecessarily. Beware of pretty girls in dance halls and parks who may be spies, as well as bicycles, revolvers, uniforms, arms, dead horses, and men lying on roads -- they are not there accidentally." -Soviet infantry manual,

Khanh'rhh
Sparkle Motion.
#32 - 2012-06-01 16:57:53 UTC
Also, EvE is a sandbox. It will never give you motivation to do anything, just a lot of sand. If you can't motivate yourself then you won't it in, that's the honest truth of it.

So I scan down a WH. Why? I enter it, why? Do I want to make ISK? Kill someone? What is my motivation for either?

EvE will never tell you that, ever. If you need the game to say "go here, do X" then EvE is just not for you.

Not necessarily a bad thing

"Do not touch anything unnecessarily. Beware of pretty girls in dance halls and parks who may be spies, as well as bicycles, revolvers, uniforms, arms, dead horses, and men lying on roads -- they are not there accidentally." -Soviet infantry manual,

CCP Punkturis
C C P
C C P Alliance
#33 - 2012-06-01 17:00:35 UTC
Celeste Taylor wrote:
CCP Punkturis wrote:


yay! I love it when someone acknowledges my work! thank you space bro!

I spend quite a lot of time reading the forums, twitter, /r/eve and various other places to gather valuable feedback to put into my work Big smile

Edit: btw I pointed your thread towards relevant peopleBlink


I also love it when you say hello in the Help Channel. It is that extra personal touch that makes us feel connected to CCP! As someone also commented on chat you have a great avatar.


ThanksBig smile I love popping by there and see how my space friends are doing!

♥ EVE Brogrammer ♥ Team Five 0 ♥ @CCP_Punkturis ♥
Vir Gnarus
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#34 - 2012-06-01 17:36:34 UTC
Hargrim Motsu wrote:

I needed to edit to add this -- do not get rid of the "lost in space" feeling. That's the beauty of it. So much to learn. So much to explore. So much to discover. Midgame? Endgame? What's that? The beauty I see in EVE is that all of is the game.


The first thing that 'wow'ed me when I started playing EVE around 3+ years ago was when I clicked the Map button the very first time and watched as it zoomed out from my little frigate to the solar system and then to the full universe. I was completely bewildered, and that kinda was much of the bait that I sunk my teeth into that led me to enjoy the game further on.

Btw, I am still utterly and completely baffled why CCP decided to remove that feature of the Map. There was even an option to turn if off but then they decided to remove it entirely? I can't understand the logic behind that, especially when it's a very captivating experience for a newbro.
Django Returns
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#35 - 2012-06-01 17:40:26 UTC
Khanh'rhh wrote:
Django Returns wrote:
Tell me the big decision a player has to make within the first 2 weeks?

In my case it was whether to stand and fight a group who wardecced us, or dock and hide.

I chose option C.

I defected to the other side and took with me all the intel needed to destroy my previous corp. I got about 350mil for doing this (enough to PLEX, back then) and I joined their alt corp and learned PVP alongside them.

The choices aren't about what to put on your ship (if you'd have watched the trailers, that should be obvious) but what you do to the people you meet.

Had I have not done what I did nothing I would have done up till now would be the same, and the 100bil or so of damages I have caused either wouldn't have happened, or happened to someone else.

That's the butterfly effect in action. The thing is, you can't observe chaos theory by looking forwards, we can only see it looking back.


I think this is a very good exemplary point of view how some players overestimate the power and fun of the sandbox concept.
One very specific case which is not suiteable for the thousends of new players who try EVE. Furthermore i was talking about choices which are proposed from the game and the environment itself, since i got 10 SCANNING missions from the game/npc and i am sent all over the place and given missions from the game/npc. In the early game you deal 99% of time with NPC and for that part of the gameplaytime, they represent EVE and its fun or the many WTF-moments.

And that part should be drastically improved.
J'Poll
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#36 - 2012-06-01 18:27:36 UTC
CCP Punkturis wrote:
Celeste Taylor wrote:
CCP Punkturis wrote:


yay! I love it when someone acknowledges my work! thank you space bro!

I spend quite a lot of time reading the forums, twitter, /r/eve and various other places to gather valuable feedback to put into my work Big smile

Edit: btw I pointed your thread towards relevant peopleBlink


I also love it when you say hello in the Help Channel. It is that extra personal touch that makes us feel connected to CCP! As someone also commented on chat you have a great avatar.


ThanksBig smile I love popping by there and see how my space friends are doing!


Just checking up this thread. And lol'ed about the pink text of CCP Punkturis.

IMO CCP can never ever do something that is contact new players enough. There are plenty of new players, each with their own motivation to continue playing or not, the more contacted the more info CCP gets to make EVE better.

Personal channel: Crazy Dutch Guy

Help channel: Help chat - Reloaded

Public roams channels: RvB Ganked / Redemption Road / Spectre Fleet / Bombers bar / The Content Club
Khanh'rhh
Sparkle Motion.
#37 - 2012-06-01 20:57:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Khanh'rhh
Django Returns wrote:
One very specific case which is not suiteable for the thousends of new players who try EVE

Of course. Yet, everyone has their own specific cases. Isn't that the point?
Quote:
Furthermore i was talking about choices which are proposed from the game

That's your problem. As I just said, if you're waiting for the game to give you structure and purpose (and worse, motivation) then it's not for you. You can tell us you don't like that, and I will agree you don't like it, but don't tell us why the game should be changed to suit you, because we like it just fine that way. Furthermore, stop trying to talk for "new players" when you actually mean yourself, since there are other new players in this very subforum expelling the virtues of the do anything nature of EvE.

In fact, they outnumber you on the first page by 4 to 1 - have a look.
Quote:
In the early game you deal 99% of time with NPC and for that part of the gameplaytime, they represent EVE and its fun or the many WTF-moments

This is only true if you avoid other people. Look at my corp history, I joined a corp on day 2. I was speaking and making friends with those guys on day one.

"Do not touch anything unnecessarily. Beware of pretty girls in dance halls and parks who may be spies, as well as bicycles, revolvers, uniforms, arms, dead horses, and men lying on roads -- they are not there accidentally." -Soviet infantry manual,

Django Returns
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#38 - 2012-06-01 21:56:21 UTC
Yeah... i am sure Khanh'rhh does not like changes ^^. I guess its hisway or highway.

So, according to Khanh'rhh we have understood that his way of playing is very well suited for EVE. Players like him will enjoy this game anyway, so lets not focus on them. Lets try to tune some parts of EVE to become more accessebly to other players, like me and my friends, and their ways of playing a videogame with spaceships too.

Trialaccounts can not post to the forums. So if a player dislikes what he sees in the first hours of EVE, he just quits. U will never hear why...
Khanh'rhh
Sparkle Motion.
#39 - 2012-06-01 22:33:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Khanh'rhh
I'm going to ignore your trollbait and ask you for a concrete suggestion. You're playing a game which is designed to be a sandbox and yet saying you don't like a sandbox and it should change.

So, given this, make a suggestion which leaves it a sandbox game yet also adds in the structure you seem to want.

"Do not touch anything unnecessarily. Beware of pretty girls in dance halls and parks who may be spies, as well as bicycles, revolvers, uniforms, arms, dead horses, and men lying on roads -- they are not there accidentally." -Soviet infantry manual,

gfldex
#40 - 2012-06-01 23:49:01 UTC  |  Edited by: gfldex
Django Returns wrote:
My 3 friends told me that they expected something else with playing EVE. You see some trialers, hear stories about huge posibilities and freedom in EVE, about players forming corperations and flying in fancy spaceships.


Many human beings like to think of themselves as free individuals. When they are faced with the freedom to do whatever they want, they ask for the TV program instead. Freedom is hard and I would not expect halve of my friends to be able to deal with it.

There are problems with the tutorial for sure and most of them can be solved by joining a proper (bloodthirsty) corp. If you don't want to be forced to join a corp EVE wont give you any problems. But don't expect anybody to trust someone who is not member of their tribe. We are all just tribals in EVE after all.

If you take all the sand out of the box, only the cat poo will remain.