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A carebear by any other name...
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Ditra Vorthran
Caldari Imports and Exports
#1 - 2012-05-31 19:41:10 UTC
There has been some great (and not so great) discussions in the last couple of days regarding the nature of the game, carebearism vs. griefers, what is 'real' PvP, and so on. However much of this discourse suffers from broad generalization that are, for the most part, unfair. These generalizations tend to polarize and isolate the varying groups within the game and limit the breath and depth of commentary.

In the spirit of these discussions that are occuring on the forums lately, I'd like to propose the following definitions in order to refine and refocus the dialog.

Carebear - the true 'I want to play eve single player, don't grief me bro,' player. With terribad fits, who never learns their lesson, and walks around with a continental sized sense of entitlement. Owns every vessel known to man, but never flys any of them, and even owns his very own custom Waaaahmbulance with pink tassles. Also includes self entitled missioners, incursioners, plexers, etc.

Grizzlybears - likes to mine, likes to mission, not terribly interested in Low and/or Null. Makes the best fits they can with what Eve gives them. Is a student of the game, but really has no interest in PvP. When they do have a gripe (and lets face it there are a lot of things that need fixing, on all sides), their gripe is rightous, but respectful to the game as a whole. All things being equal, they HTFU and carry on.

Griefer - the 'lollerskates, nublet,' crowd who thinks mining in any way shape or form shouldn't exsit. Someone who is just as happing wacking new players as they are Hulks, just for lols. Thinks that everyone not doing what they're doing is 'playing Eve wrong!' Also carries around a strong sense of entitlement and immediately opposes anything that resembles a nerf to PvP, regardless as to its merit to the game as a whole.

PvPer - from the cap pilot in a 1000 man fleet, to the solo pvper roaming Low Sec, to the High sec mercenary, these are the warriors. Whatever their morals, the live for the thrill of combat. Tactics, rules, and equipment changes with every patch, but they fight good fights, regardless of the odds. When **** happens, it happens, and they move on.

"Miners mine so I don't have to." ~Metal Icarus
Kiteo Hatto
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#2 - 2012-05-31 19:44:26 UTC
Whats the word for those who do solo everything with their alts ?
What's the word for bears that live in null under the protection of blues ?
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#3 - 2012-05-31 19:48:59 UTC
pvp = any player vs player activity.

Griefer = someone constanty harrassing another player.
FloppieTheBanjoClown
Arcana Imperii Ltd.
#4 - 2012-05-31 19:49:19 UTC
Kiteo Hatto wrote:
Whats the word for those who do solo everything with their alts ?

Foreveralone?
Kiteo Hatto wrote:
What's the word for bears that live in null under the protection of blues ?

Team players?

(and no, I'm not a null resident and have no desire for the life. But seriously...making a pocket of null any semblance of secure so that people can bear it up requires a lot of effort and teamwork.)

Founding member of the Belligerent Undesirables movement.
Surfin's PlunderBunny
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#5 - 2012-05-31 19:49:58 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
pvp = any player vs player activity.

Griefer = someone constanty harrassing another player.


There is no griefing in Eve

"Little ginger moron" ~David Hasselhoff 

Want to see what Surf is training or how little isk Surf has?  http://eveboard.com/pilot/Surfin%27s_PlunderBunny
Ginseng Jita
PAN-EVE TRADING COMPANY
#6 - 2012-05-31 19:50:22 UTC
I drink to this thread!

By the end of the day I'll need a new liver.
Chunicha
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#7 - 2012-05-31 19:51:20 UTC
Ditra Vorthran wrote:
There has been some great (and not so great) discussions in the last couple of days regarding the nature of the game, carebearism vs. griefers, what is 'real' PvP, and so on. However much of this discourse suffers from broad generalization that are, for the most part, unfair. These generalizations tend to polarize and isolate the varying groups within the game and limit the breath and depth of commentary.

In the spirit of these discussions that are occuring on the forums lately, I'd like to propose the following definitions in order to refine and refocus the dialog.

Carebear , definition 1- the true 'I want to play eve single player, don't grief me bro,' player. With terribad fits, who never learns their lesson, and walks around with a continental sized sense of entitlement. Owns every vessel known to man, but never flys any of them, and even owns his very own custom Waaaahmbulance with pink tassles. Also includes self entitled missioners, incursioners, plexers, etc.

Carebear, definition 2 - likes to mine, likes to mission, not terribly interested in Low and/or Null. Makes the best fits they can with what Eve gives them. Is a student of the game, but really has no interest in PvP. When they do have a gripe (and lets face it there are a lot of things that need fixing, on all sides), their gripe is rightous, but respectful to the game as a whole. All things being equal, they HTFU and carry on.

Griefer - the 'lollerskates, nublet,' crowd who thinks mining in any way shape or form shouldn't exsit. Someone who is just as happing wacking new players as they are Hulks, just for lols. Thinks that everyone not doing what they're doing is 'playing Eve wrong!' Also carries around a strong sense of entitlement and immediately opposes anything that resembles a nerf to PvP, regardless as to its merit to the game as a whole.

PvPer - from the cap pilot in a 1000 man fleet, to the solo pvper roaming Low Sec, to the High sec mercenary, these are the warriors. Whatever their morals, the live for the thrill of combat. Tactics, rules, and equipment changes with every patch, but they fight good fights, regardless of the odds. When **** happens, it happens, and they move on.



Fixed that error for ya
flakeys
Doomheim
#8 - 2012-05-31 19:52:38 UTC
Ditra Vorthran wrote:
PvPer - from the cap pilot in a 1000 man fleet, to the solo pvper roaming Low Sec, to the High sec mercenary, these are the warriors. Whatever their morals, the live for the thrill of combat. Tactics, rules, and equipment changes with every patch, but they fight good fights, regardless of the odds. When **** happens, it happens, and they move on.



Bolded/underlined : That leaves out a huge part of the null sec ''we be bad pvpers bro's'' you do realise.There's a reason we got blobs and things like CFC .. they don't like to fight regardless of odds.

We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid.
FloppieTheBanjoClown
Arcana Imperii Ltd.
#9 - 2012-05-31 19:53:33 UTC
Ditra Vorthran wrote:
Griefer - the 'lollerskates, nublet,' crowd who thinks mining in any way shape or form shouldn't exsit. Someone who is just as happing wacking new players as they are Hulks, just for lols. Thinks that everyone not doing what they're doing is 'playing Eve wrong!' Also carries around a strong sense of entitlement and immediately opposes anything that resembles a nerf to PvP, regardless as to its merit to the game as a whole.

I disagree. I'm frequently labelled a griefer and I have no desire to force people to play my way. If you don't like PVP, that's fine by me. I have no problem with mining, but I do have a problem who want to be invulnerable while doing so. You're welcome to spend your entire Eve experience being a carebear...just know that I'm equally welcome to make every effort to make a profit from blowing up your ship. That's the nature of Eve, and of COURSE I'm going to oppose efforts to change that.

Founding member of the Belligerent Undesirables movement.
Ravan Hekki
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#10 - 2012-05-31 20:58:28 UTC
Oh bless we have labels. I think the main problem isnt a need for labels is a need to get over yourselves.

Lets be honest, there are two types of ganker. The ones who know they are pushing up the profits of the large alliances and the ones who dont.

As for the various types of bear....well they are the ones who belive their way of playing eve is right, be it the miner who says 'dont shoot me im nice' to the guy in null ranting that everything not null is pointless. 'Bears' indulge in whiny self indulgent noise.

Did you know 80% of eves population dosnt actually go on the forums. This means about 80% of Eve's population are happy with the game, dont constantly b**** about 'bears' 'griefers' 'goons' or 'testies'. They generaly dont give a s***.

Feel free to come at me, but please dont whine, whinge and label me. Why do some people most people seem to think they are somehow entitled to get what ever they want just because damn it 'xxxx' has it to easy. Get in the damn game and fly a spaceship.
ModeratedToSilence
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#11 - 2012-05-31 21:03:42 UTC
Any activity that has potential impact on other players is PVP.

Selling items from missions on market/contracts is PVP
Selling ores or minerals on markets/contracts that you have mined is PVP
Selling datacores on the market is PVP
Selling PI materials is PVP
Selling items you have produced is PVP

The only market activity that is not PVP is buying NPC orders and selling to other NPC orders.
sabre906
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#12 - 2012-05-31 21:33:44 UTC
FloppieTheBanjoClown wrote:
Kiteo Hatto wrote:
Whats the word for those who do solo everything with their alts ?

Foreveralone?
Kiteo Hatto wrote:
What's the word for bears that live in null under the protection of blues ?

Team players?

(and no, I'm not a null resident and have no desire for the life. But seriously...making a pocket of null any semblance of secure so that people can bear it up requires a lot of effort and teamwork.)


Indeed. One afk cloaker can shut it down. It's a fragile thing.Big smile
Ptraci
3 R Corporation
#13 - 2012-06-01 00:18:47 UTC
Ditra Vorthran wrote:


from the cap pilot in a 1000 man fleet ...live for the thrill of combat.


Fly a lot of capital ships do you? lol, the "thrill" of killing a pos/killing an SBU/killing a TCU/killing an ihub/repping a POS/repping a station. Yeah, capital ship ops are thrilling...

Yeah ONCE IN A WHILE you get to gank something, but most of the "thrilling" stuff is as above :)
Ravan Hekki
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#14 - 2012-06-01 11:31:08 UTC
Nobody likes pos bashing. Not one person. If they tell you they do, they lie. Pos bashing sucks. Null however dosn't. But this sint about that.

This is about bears of all sorts who belive thier way oif playing the game is best. Please tell me that trade hub campers are exposed to risk, lol. Null blobs outnumbering their opponents, no danger there....I know i fly in them from time to time. Small gang roams? when was the last time you did it and went against bigger numbers and had a really gf? (I know beyond divinity does).

The point is no one gives a S***. Do you really think people arent risk adverse? Get in the ship, play the game the way you want to and fight for your coner of new eden in your own way. Dont come onto the forums to moan about miners or goons, do it in game. Get allies go do stuff.

That is all.
DeMichael Crimson
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#15 - 2012-06-01 13:14:14 UTC
ModeratedToSilence wrote:
Any activity that has potential impact on other players is PVP.

Selling items from missions on market/contracts is PVP
Selling ores or minerals on markets/contracts that you have mined is PVP
Selling datacores on the market is PVP
Selling PI materials is PVP
Selling items you have produced is PVP

The only market activity that is not PVP is buying NPC orders and selling to other NPC orders.



Gawd

That meme is so full of holes, it really needs to be sanctified.


Market sell orders only become PvP if the player does the advanced sell option with 0.01 or lower ISK pricing. Quick sell isn't PvP. Now the players who are placing the 'Buy' orders are doing PvP.

Public Contracts to sell items is PvP. Also placing 'WTB' contracts is PvP. However, players who fill those 'WTB' contracts aren't doing PvP.


Now that those holes are pluged, I'll open up another one. Buying NPC orders and selling to NPC orders could be viewed as PvP considering another player may also be doing it as well, then it becomes competition which then makes it PvP.

Anyway, I'm really getting tired of seeing players use that as an excuse to justify their actions when what they're really doing is griefing other players in high sec due to the exploitation of unbalanced game mechanics.


'The Plan' | California Eve Players | Proposal - The Endless Battle