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Noob impressions

First post
Author
Quartzlight Evenstar Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Operations
#21 - 2012-05-31 13:49:41 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
Quartzlight Evenstar Icefluxor wrote:
Akiyo XI wrote:

hopefully the new generation of EVE players will be able to adapt, survive and be the next conquers instead of whining about goons or little inventory boxes on forums and holding there subs hostage to try and force CCPs hand like children.



No, they are tired of CCP, a Company, not providing a Quality Experience for ALL players in thier 'so-called' (and that's where it is right now) sandbox.

If they take the word 'sandbox' out of their ads, then things might be more accurate and UNCONTESTABLE.

In the meantime, Real Life ISK shall flow elsewhere.


The highlighted part is what THEMe PARK mmos do.

This poster is the perfect example of what I just said lol.



Not sure what you are trying to say here. Give it another shot.

What I'M saying is I do not want to play in utter safety, nor under constant, useless, 'for lulz' threat. The balance is gone from this particular dynamic system. The balance is also disappearing from CCP's bank as well. But a small part of that is my doing.

Have fun playing, I guess.

***

Thorn Galen
Bene Gesserit ChapterHouse
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
#22 - 2012-05-31 13:49:58 UTC
Jakob Anedalle - Thank you Sir, a very good write-up without suffering from being clouded by emotion.
I agree very much with your sentiments.
Indahmawar Fazmarai
#23 - 2012-05-31 13:50:14 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
(...)People like that are simply not worthy of respect, in game or out.


I think you've been metagaming a tad too much. Roll
Quartzlight Evenstar Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Operations
#24 - 2012-05-31 14:01:12 UTC
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
(...)People like that are simply not worthy of respect, in game or out.


I think you've been metagaming a tad too much. Roll


Her ? Wow. My fingers are pointing at a lot of others, that's for sure.

I'm just not gonna pay $60 a month anymore to fund the Goon's Playground.

***

Reverend Cletis
Synister Mynisters
#25 - 2012-05-31 14:08:20 UTC
Excellent post. May I suggest that you now leave the forums forever. You'll probably enjoy your game experience more if you do. The trolls will eventually drag you down to their level. We'll all be living under bridges.....

Great ideas!
Jenn aSide
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#26 - 2012-05-31 15:13:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Jenn aSide
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
(...)People like that are simply not worthy of respect, in game or out.


I think you've been metagaming a tad too much. Roll


Not at all. i'm saying I know the type.

For instance, on my job, there are people who like the job (like me) and who stay with it, and people who didn't like it and left.

THEN there are those in-between people who hate the job but won't (or can't) leave and who refuse to adapt to the situation to make it at least more bearable for themselves, but would rather grumble TO ME/everyone else about it, which has the affect of lowering morale for everyone.

That's a big part of what we're seeing on these forums here. It's painfully simple to figure out counters to what Goons are doing/paying for and there are other things to do other than mining, and if all else fails, other games to play. But these people feel entitled to mine in max yeild paper thin ships even though CCP damn near tells you at loggin that "no space is safe".

It's mind boggling.
Quartzlight Evenstar Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Operations
#27 - 2012-05-31 15:17:47 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:


It's mind boggling.


A LINE is crossed by the goons and your mind is boggled ? God help us.

***

Reverend Cletis
Synister Mynisters
#28 - 2012-05-31 15:24:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Reverend Cletis
Jenn aSide wrote:
Not at all. i'm saying I know the type.

For instance, on my job, there are people who like the job (like me) and who stay with it, and people who didn't like it and left.

THEN there are those in-between people who hate the job but won't (or can't) leave and who refuse to adapt to the situation to make it at least more bearable for themselves, but would rather grumble TO ME/everyone else about it, which has the affect of lowering morale for everyone.

That's a big part of what we're seeing on these forums here. It's painfully simple to figure out counters to what Goons are doing/paying for and there are other things to do other than mining, and if all else fails, other games to play. But these people feel entitled to mine in max yeild paper thin ships even though CCP damn near tells you at loggin that "no space is safe".



Oh so very much this. I would like to highlight the words feel entitled. IF you dont like the product that is being produced, please leave.

Please.
Visian Yagami Valaris
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#29 - 2012-05-31 15:45:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Visian Yagami Valaris
Jakob Anedalle wrote:


Does death have consequence?
I thought I read in the ad copy for Eve that death had consequences but I must have been wrong, because clearly it doesn’t. Yeah, sure you lose a ship, and that could really hurt. As a newbie I sure know that. But the idea that suicide gank is a standard practice proves the point. The idea that someone would do a dozen suicide ganks in a row just adds unrealistic insult to the gameworld. You get to be a bully and never face consequences for it. If you’re on the Concord “most wanted” list you should get podded, and getting podded should cause a loss that matters - presumably skill points as if your clone could only handle 95% of your SP or something. This might be harsh for first time - maybe the first death in 24 hours is no loss, then it starts accelerating from there. The realistic alternative would be that Concord arrests the characters, but taking someone out of the game (even for just 24 hours) seems problematic.

Do factions matter?
Right now factions seem pretty passive and impotent. Seriously - we just had a huge blow to Caldari sovereignty in Burn Jita and where are the consequences? Are faction forces retaliating against the attacking corps? Are there now huge bounties on the heads of the directors of those corps, and longterm kill-on-sight orders issued to Concord? What, nothing? Seriously?
I think in an ideal Eve universe for me there might be no NPC-run factions. Everywhere would be run by players. The problem solved by having highsec and Concord is presumably that there aren’t players who would want to be policeman in sufficient quantities to match what would be needed in a “realistic” world, so that part might not be worth trying to abolish. To take a page from some old school MUDs I used to play, what if players did run the factions? Gallente might elect officers yearly by one-person=one-vote. Others might vote with dollars, have a more feudal system, or have an annual tournament of 5-man gangs to establish a ruling quintumvirate (or however you’d spell that). The winners would be able to direct faction NPC forces, which might include fighting wars at the command of players. This would also make them be able to respond “realistically” to attack.
I’d love it if a player corp could kick the Caldari out of Jita - that’s why I mentioned earlier that I don’t think Concord ships should be all-powerful. But for the supposed great powers world to carry on like nothing happened just makes no sense.


Alright. Uhm. I'm supposed to be writing my mid term right now; but hey. I need a break So this'll be in mah uber epic sauce paper format of arguing! Huzzah.

First; to your consequence. I'm a player of approximately four months, with plenty of time to make (and lose) money. I have 4.7 million SP, 4.5 of which are crammed into fighting like a boss. I can say with utmost certainty that the death penalty for pirates, is no where near good enough BUT. This is only to rookie players. Two frigates can take down a poorly armed and poorly witted battleship captain, and bite a pretty huge chunk into a player's wallet. But, those same pirates in say; T2 frigates running 150m each, against... a 150m Raven (What I fly for missions.) Is usually what I face out in low or null (And even high, when I flip cans for ***** and giggles.) The system is perfectly fair when you consider that in reality - a better armed, better skilled ship could (Not that we have them in real life.) take down a slower, less skilled, less armed ship. The ONLY PEOPLE who complain about pirates are the ones who've lost a crap ton of ISK; or are newbs who know literally nothing about the game. I understood it was a PVP game from the moment I entered, and treated it as such.

Pirates can be killed by players. *Big ohh from the crowd.*

This is their penalty. Concord is there to make boom the ships of pirates who pick on little people (Of which there could be an altered response, sure.) But EVE is turning into a game of veterans, fighting a war of attrition against other veterans. I've been ganked. I've been popped and re-cloned. But that doesn't matter, because I've killed more pirate players than I have lost ISK to. That's the element people are missing when they complain about pirates - other people CAN KILL THEM. Why complain, why say that NPC elements need to be changed, when this is a player run, sandbox game? Stop complaining, figure out how you can beat them, and send them running back to their mothers begging for mama's milk again. Can't beat them yourself? Team up. Like a boss.

Do factions matter? Yes. Player run factions, are important. NPC factions, are there to try and take care of what players can't. We can take care of pirates. NPC's can't, obviously. And that's my take on it. There's flaws to be sure, and I'm new myself and still learning about the game. So I can imagine that to others this idea of players actually taking on their aggressors seems pretty weird. But like I said. If you can't do it online - join a faction that can.

Play EVE. Love it. Grief pirates. Live life. Enjoy.

(Edit.) On the matter of running people (Caldari.) Out of Jita, I think you missed it. We can. Did you see goonswarm? They did it. Local economies crashed and the wave hit as far as Amarr. Caldari space, dead, owing to the goons. 'Gratz them - they understand it's the players who make the decisions and the players who are the driving force, in hordes, that can make the differences in the game. (I still KOS when I see a Goon ;D )
The VC's
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#30 - 2012-05-31 16:18:04 UTC  |  Edited by: The VC's
Quote:
You will find that most of those yelling about their playstyle and hostilities are only from a few certain Alliances, and they are also below a certain age.

They fall for dictator-styled Charismatic Leaders as they are of the overly self-entitled generation and thrive behind this wall of anonymity we call the Internet, have not had proper educations in their economically failing home countries. Yes, I include America in that.


I wish I could disagree with this statement but it seems to be the trend. One of the things I like about Eve is that, compared to other games it attracts an older crowd. I'm pushing 40 and by now I've had some life of triumph and disaster. The passion with which some players defend and insist on their playstyle as the embodiment of the game suggests RL under-stimulation. To me anyway.

In the past, from prehistory until now, consciousness was formed by conversation and environmental experience. Today it is formed from the media. 'Parenting', social, familial and personal, has been overshadowed by a system that won't provide 'ego' with the important balances that real life transactions do.

I believe strongly that the internet should be kept free and would die to defend that principle, no joke. It puts power in the hands of the people like nothing ever has before. It allows good things to emerge very efficiently and by the end of this century will have done a lot to render state powers meaningless. By the end of the century.

The First world war could be characterized as a war fought with the current century's technology, but with the previous century's moral framework. It took us some time to finally work that through.

We started this century with new, consciousness changing technologies. We can't expect to be dealing with it any diferently than we did a hundred years ago.




Fun fact. Robotic warfare is not covered by the Geneva Conventions.



Edit. Sorry Op, I was trying to make a point before i got into the Post-electronic diatribe. What I wanted to say is, the players that are the most vocal on forums and seek to dominate all other values in-game can be the people that need the most personally from playing. For a lot of us Eve is an interesting distraction from the really important things in life, and when you meet your crowd the chat's excellent. We are out there, just not saying 'look at me' much.
Yonis Kador
KADORCORP
#31 - 2012-05-31 16:42:40 UTC
OP, as someone who's been here for a while and who was only brought to the forums pretty recently due to issues with the Inferno expansion, I can assure you that what you're seeing in these forums isn't representative of my EVE experience. I've met wonderful people from places that I'll never travel to in my lifetime, made real-life friendships, and like everyone, am still working to investigate unexplored aspects of gameplay.

There have been many days where I've had voice conversations with other charismatic adults in at least a dozen different countries while flying my internet spaceship. The most-prolific posters here seem to have cultivated some kind of unmoderated tit for tat mentality (that is representative of very real, long-standing debates over in-game mechanics,) but I don't think that they are necessarily the best representatives of the playerbase as a whole. This isn't meant to be insulting to anyone - I don't dislike anyone or any group per se - it's just an observation based on "my" personal experiences and what I've read.

There's a million different reasons why I'm passionate about this game, one of which is how dynamic the system is (you never know what's going to happen on any given day,) the player-driven economy, and of course EVE's multicultural aspect. Some days (not every day) I run Eve Radio in the background just to hear music selections from people in other countries that I otherwise would've never been exposed to. Like all things I guess, you're going to get out of the game what you want to.

What I've observed is a tendency for people to settle into a single profession and to train unbalanced characters because they want them functioning well in that profession as quickly as possible. This instant-gratification mentality leads to an inability to handle some situations that will invariably arise. Usually this will be industrialists who don't bother to train any defensive skills. I'm just as guilty as anyone of making the same mistakes. I recently decided to kill off a character I've trained for years just to start over again. In my game, a fresh start has been rewarding. And each time I've started a new character has been a completely different experience.

The point is - don't give up. A great many people come and go in this game and they leave for a variety of reasons. The people who tend to outlast their peers are those whose games are social, who train balanced characters, and who have a healthy sense of humor.

Yonis Kador
Jakob Anedalle
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#32 - 2012-05-31 16:58:29 UTC
Thanks folks. I'll make a quick clarification and step away. :)

A friend of mine recently said he liked Eve because: "I'm a weirdo who likes my PvE mixed with PvP." It's like peanut butter and chocolate. (Okay, tastes vary there Smile)

I think my buddy and I trying to scan down sites is much more fun because I've got a paranoid eye stuck on the Dscan and local the whole time. Nice to get the heartrate going when you see someone with a huge bounty on them step into local. I have been disappointed with missions because in my Catalyst or Tristan I can knock down level 1 missions without really having to think, and the one time I tried a level 2 mission I was quick to find that I'll need to earn my way up to a cruiser with decent fits (and thus more ISK) before I can even start there.

But scanning down a site in lowsec, chasing off the rats, and then trying to extract value before someone spots me sounds like more fun. I'm looking forward to that next time I get a decent chunk of time to play again.

Trying out all the things to do here in Eve - it's quite a checklist. So I made a blog Jakob's Eve Checklist

Peta Michalek
Doomheim
#33 - 2012-05-31 17:17:06 UTC
Obnoxious Fly wrote:
Bounties are exploytable, we need a new kind of 'consequence'.


That's actually quite simple and easy to do and I'm sure I'm not the first to say this:

Jail.

When CONCORD blows you up they don't only destroy your ship, they also capture your pod and put you in jail for 3/5/7 days - acutal number is up to debate(it might even depend on the sec level of the system you've been caught in/caused trouble in). The catch here is, the jail inhibits your cerebral augmentation. For the less lore-versed: you don't gain any skill points when in jail. Other abilities could be limited too - like using the market for example.

Of course there's one problem with this, and here is what I'd like to add to OP's post myself, as this is the thing that surprised me them most when I played EVE for the first time: Alts.

Generally speaking, it's normal for a MMO to allow several characters per account. But it's also normal for an MMO to have classes, and that's the main reason for several possible characters - when you get bored with being a heal slave you might change a character and gank some people as a thief/assassin. But the thing is, EVE doesn't have classes - if you want to do something you just do it, and if you want to learn a new skill set you can just do so with no penalty. You can specialize yourself to a certain extent with neural remaps, but only one of all your characters can gain SP at any time so creating several with different min/maxed attributes is still far from optimal and you're better off using jump clones with different implants... which can all be operated on a single character.

Bottom line is, the three characters per account is completely unnecessary in EVE and is mainly grounds for abuse/exploits/grief and avoiding personal responsibility(yes I know, personal responsibility in internet spaceships sounds laughable, but so does shooting at some NPC station in protest so you're as guilty as me). One character per account is more risk & reward for everybody, better immersion, potentially better gameplay(no more "Throwaway" characters) and more cash for CCP - because there will always be people who want more characters... and they'll pay for extra accounts.
Medarr
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#34 - 2012-05-31 17:25:47 UTC
95% of 100mil SP is quite a lot, in both training time and money invested and once you hit 0.0 you will definitely get podded. Nothing much you can do if you jump into a well prepared and bubbled gate camp.
Marlona Sky
State War Academy
Caldari State
#35 - 2012-05-31 17:30:37 UTC
One issue is those suicide gankers get to go back to the safety of null sec and do some ratting to fix their sec status. The question you need to ask is:

If Concord does not care about the bad things you do in null, why do they care about the good things?
Ana Vyr
Vyral Technologies
#36 - 2012-05-31 17:36:59 UTC
Well said, OP.
Jenn aSide
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#37 - 2012-05-31 17:37:01 UTC
Marlona Sky wrote:
One issue is those suicide gankers get to go back to the safety of null sec and do some ratting to fix their sec status. The question you need to ask is:

If Concord does not care about the bad things you do in null, why do they care about the good things?


Because criminals are still criminals, even when they are outside of your jurisdiction. In theory, the bounty you get for killing a null sec rat is CONCORD saying "thank you for doing that before he could come in to empire and commit crimes".

Of course, if CONDORD really cared, they put bounties on empire mission runners (because accepting a mission is a lot like inviting a crook to your house so you can gank him :) ). In other word,s -F- the police.


Indahmawar Fazmarai
#38 - 2012-05-31 19:47:32 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
(...)People like that are simply not worthy of respect, in game or out.


I think you've been metagaming a tad too much. Roll


Not at all. i'm saying I know the type.

For instance, on my job, there are people who like the job (like me) and who stay with it, and people who didn't like it and left.

THEN there are those in-between people who hate the job but won't (or can't) leave and who refuse to adapt to the situation to make it at least more bearable for themselves, but would rather grumble TO ME/everyone else about it, which has the affect of lowering morale for everyone.

That's a big part of what we're seeing on these forums here. It's painfully simple to figure out counters to what Goons are doing/paying for and there are other things to do other than mining, and if all else fails, other games to play. But these people feel entitled to mine in max yeild paper thin ships even though CCP damn near tells you at loggin that "no space is safe".

It's mind boggling.


It comes to a very simple point:

EVE is burning out the only demographic that could ensure its long term survival.

EVE is enjoying a monopoly on a certain niche, and is burning out the population of that niche faster than it refills because EVE belongs to a smaller niche. EVE is a 25,000 subs game enjoying 400,000 subs on the base of being the only one in the market. That's a nice trick, but it won't last forever, and will die once everybody interested has tried EVE, has found it's a 25,000 subs freak show, and has gone elsewhere.
Shea Valerien
House of Valerien
#39 - 2012-05-31 21:01:10 UTC
Marlona Sky wrote:
One issue is those suicide gankers get to go back to the safety of null sec and do some ratting to fix their sec status. The question you need to ask is:

If Concord does not care about the bad things you do in null, why do they care about the good things?


^^^ This.

My two big problems with suicide ganking (which I'm not strictly against):

1. Too easy to get your sec status back. No long term ramifications of being a ganker.

2. Concord should be killing/podding criminals who come into hi-sec empire space.
Ravan Hekki
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#40 - 2012-05-31 21:01:26 UTC
I want CONCORD to add people to a watch list and then strike at random, that would be much funnier.

We could have empire incursions into null that go after alliances that annoy the empires (Excatly the same as sansha, but mnore fun for them.)