Player Features and Ideas Discussion

I think its fair to say that currently, there are insufficient incentives encouraging players to defend FW complexes.
To be clear, it is known that this was done intentionally to abate players from farming the Factional LP store. This has resulted in a clear imbalance for all who are familiar with the gameplay, however I have concluded on a rather simple solution
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Completing a FW complex defensively should be rewarded by having that complex's LP value placed BACK into the local system hub (bunker). This LP amount would be equivalent to the amount which would have been removed had the complex been completed offensively.
However, these loyalty points would only refund back to the system hub up to the amount which was originally placed there by the controlling faction.

The result, is that defending a complex on it's own will have a worthwhile result which is in-keeping with the game's established mechanics. This would also serve to bring defensive gameplay more into line with offensive gameplay.
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I encourage the FW community to please post any comments or criticism, I also encourage praise and pledges of servitude.

So just spawn LP from nowhere to buffer up the system at no cost? IE either waste a good chunk of isk on your system or let trial alts spin a button for 10 minutes?

No thanks.

Not sure you read what I wrote there Sekh, It doesn't buffer the system.

LP would only be regained back up to the point where it was before it was removed by offensive plexing.

I.e If a system is level IV, and plexers downgrade the system to level III, defensive plexing would only bring the system back up to level IV and no further.

I see what you're getting at, however what I'm suggesting is a little different than that,

The LP would be a reward from your faction for defending, similar to what you would earn for attacking, except the LP wouldn't go to individual characters. Instead, the LP earned from defending would be deposited directly into the system hub where the plex was defended.

As a side note,
The cap I suggested for how much LP gets placed back into the hub is intended to help retain the original mechanic of having to place LP into the hub in the first place.

You mean when the system is counted as stable, as opposed to contested?

I think that could make sense. So what you're saying is that the LP earned for the system hub from defending would not be paid back into the hub until it's decontested?

On another note, the LP earned from offensive plexing also counts as being "spawned from nowhere." If you run offensive complexes in a system with 0 LP in the system hub, you still earn LP.

So if I'm understanding your proposal correctly, the militia can upgrade a system to level V once- then as long as they hold the system - any alt in a condor can restore that system to level V again. That is essentially awarding LP for defensive plexing (albeit with strings attached), and I have to say that the idea of earning LP (or restoring earned and invested LP) which has an enormous impact on warzone control and LP store metrics, by spinning a button with a condor surrounded by friendly rats is a bit too much to ask for. Besides, killing enemy militia earns LP now - guess where you can find them.

As for incentives and fixes, let's slow down - It's only been a week. The cal/gal militias each got to tier II then slid back. My guess is that the initial investment in upgrading systems hasn't been replaced because not enough players defended those upgrades. Our response should be "Challenge Accepted" , not "Please make this easier" The incentive for defending upgraded systems involves enlightened self-interest and requires coordination. We share in the rewards of warzone control, so we should share in the costs of maintaining it. Welcome to the new FW. It will take awhile for enough people to get on board with that but let's not ask for help in week 1

A better short term solution:
If coordinated across a militia, held systems could be ninja upgraded in the quiet hours, and everyone could cash in their LP at favorable rates for awhile. It wouldn't cost anyone that much if the cost is shared, just a bit of planning. When they get plexed down, we go earn LP in offensive systems for a bit, restore the coffers, rinse and repeat.

Another:
Roll an alt and put it and its condor on a defensive button while you play your main. Sorry, but mechanics are mechanics.

The long term solution, however, involves realizing that sov has come to FW and developing the means to control and defend systems effectively - not just generally ignoring them until they get heavily contested and grinding them down then. This probably means living in low sec, not just dipping in to grab some LP. This probably means erecting POS's and fighting from them. This probably means a division of labor inside the militia - an assignment of systems to protect. There will be free-riders, there always are - boo hoo. But let's not ask CCP to dumb down our new gameplay just because we didn't stroll into tier 5 and make 100 billion isk in week 1.

Better Idea eliminate LP for plexing completely.

Significantly boost LP for actually flipping the system.

Boost LP for kills.

You want to encourage pvp & significant and meaningful conflicts, not alts spinning buttons in backwater systems for hoardes of LP.

Why reward people for spinning buttons in quiet or empty systems with no intention of actually capturing the system.

How does it make sense to have alts in t1 frigs spin a few empty systems at god awful times and effect an entire empire's market prices, doubling, tripling or even quadrupling prices.

Surely this is not the type of game that was intended or should be encouraged.

This is a FANTASTIC suggestion. Yogsoloth, Zurtan and Killbot also made very valid points.

There have been a lot of good ideas mentioned here so far, and I appreciate everyone's correspondence. I think we all agree that the new system requires some modification, and think that we should take this opportunity to hash out what exactly needs to happen.

I'll take some time to write up a proper breakdown of what people have pointed to as being the problem, and try to work together a new proposal based off of some of the ideas that have been suggested here.

Whatever the solution something does need to be done to encourage defensive plexing. I don't think you could just sit there with an alt because any system that is being contested likely has elements for each side in it therefore your alt would just get popped while you are not paying attention. I am a fan of a system where LP would go straight into the hub as there are quite a few pilots out there who just use LP for personal reward.

Doing LP payouts only when the system is not contested is a ver bad idea. FW pilots rely on LP to generate the money or ships they need to fight. It is much easier to "contest" a system than actively attempt to take it, so all you would have to do to cripple both sides is just do enough to keep their systems from going stable. It would cripple both sides.

My concern is, that by making the LP go straight to system maintenance that it's not going to encourage defensive plexing at all, as too many people will be too fixated on making LP for themselves, though it will make it easier for those who do actively participate in upgrading systems.

I'm not sure what to think of this suggestion. Essentially this would make defence a matter of hunting down WT while the do offensive plexes. Which kind of makes sense. It would make it much harder for attackers since they would have to be more organised and ready to repel incursions into their plex. The further a faction extends throughout the systems it would make it harder to interfere in offensive plexes. As a game balance idea this is actually quite good. Perhaps they could have a mod where when they are in an offensive plex in your system on top of what you gain for killing a war target that system gains an increase to structure LP based off a % of what the WT is worth. As a balance mechanic I can get behind this.

As a Minmatar not so much, our lines are already over extended~