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Battleship mining making a "comeback"?
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Hannibal Ord
Fer-De-Lance
#21 - 2012-05-30 11:32:54 UTC
Mining with Battleships has been common practice before. This really isn't anything new. Until you get the coveter or the hulk, the Apoc was the best mining ship and then came the Rokh.
warzonetemp
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#22 - 2012-05-30 12:06:49 UTC  |  Edited by: warzonetemp
Hannibal Ord wrote:
Mining with Battleships has been common practice before. This really isn't anything new. Until you get the coveter or the hulk, the Apoc was the best mining ship and then came the Rokh.



Bring back the mining domi with extra drones Big smile

Actually domi used to have a viable mining fit before drone nerf to limit them.

As for convoys, unless you can insta lock every destroyer in a gank fleet you won't do damage fast enough before a hulk blows.

A shield buff is unlikely, so another option is needed. Maybe something as simple as giving 8 mid to a hulk or simply mine in the passive rokh.
Riven Aleem
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#23 - 2012-05-30 12:30:39 UTC
warzonetemp wrote:

A shield buff is unlikely, so another option is needed. Maybe something as simple as giving 8 mid to a hulk or simply mine in the passive rokh.

There's no point in giving 8 mid slots to a Hulk to fix a survive-ability issue, and not just give it more shield. There's only so many useful things you can fit in the mids of a Hulk. When you are no longer making a choice between utility and survival, then you might as well just boost its base survival.

When it has enough survival to mine in Hi-sec w/o fear of gankers, then you get to chose between buffing its tank for solo low-null or buffing output for defended fleet operations.

Same can be said of providing a mining specific gang module for rorqual/orca to let people decide between giving their hulks the defense they need, or boost their productivity. The only problem right now, is that there is no defense for a Hulk, either in a fleet or solo, that protects them from a suicide ganker in a <10 mil destroyer.

If the most reliable way to mine is not in an exhumer, but in a battleship, then CCP has failed in providing the sandbox players with the correct tools to play their chosen form of game.

I'm all for a burning Jita Event, as there's fun to be had on all sides (opt out is available) but when you can make profit by suicide ganking in Hi-sec either in asteroid fields or at gates, then there is an issue.

When you are able to load up a Indy with >200mil isk of materials and have it destroyed in 'protected' space by someone in a 50mil ship then there's a problem, same for a <10 mil ship earning money by destroying a 250+mil ship.

The issue really isn't that high-sec should be perfectly safe, but just as many people have said, it's not economically proportionate. If you are flying a 50mil ship and scanning gates, you can fail 4 times before you stop profiting by ganking 200mil haulers, and this is something that should be addressed.

I can't think of any scenario whereby CCP intended for people to be able to make profit while killing people in hi-sec. I would be very interested to hear their thoughts on it.
smokess
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#24 - 2012-05-30 12:57:43 UTC
warzonetemp wrote:
sabre906 wrote:
warzonetemp wrote:
I don't know if that makes a difference, how many people actually check the turrets of the ships before they attack it?

It's not common practice, so it's not really something old eve players ever think about.


When seeing a Rokh, most people assume it would have turrets as opposed to miners, unless mining beams are coming out of it.

What you meant was which type of guns. In the age of Winmatards, Rokhs are AC fit, so those blasters may surprise some people.


Well Ganking fits aren't known for their tanks, so blaster fit is a good option especially with tracking enhancers and mag stabs, AC fits are fine as well, but Damage still belongs to Blasters.

As for the turrets layout, it's why I have one miner II in the set up, if they think it's a mining ship and see a jet can with ore, it's a tempting target. Blaster fits are now much more manageable on cap and with overheat can deal more damage with good skills.

Honestly however, I haven't seen any miners ever pull a bait game on a ganker, which is sort of weird to me. Hulkageddon has been going on for years, so why haven't miners ever gotten the note, study some weapons and fitting skills for next years Hulkageddon to turn the tables, change from a carebear into a grizzly, you can still mine, but no one knows if you're coming out with guns blazing or a rainbow chest piece of mining lasers with crystals P


You've clearly never heard of a jetcan mining battlehulk...
Katja Faith
Doomheim
#25 - 2012-05-30 15:49:16 UTC
[quote=Cyc Lilith]...for whoring the KM/quote]

That says it all, right there.
Rroff
Antagonistic Tendencies
#26 - 2012-05-30 16:00:29 UTC
I briefly used something like:

Quote:

[Dominix, Mining]
Expanded Cargohold II
Expanded Cargohold II
Expanded Cargohold II
Expanded Cargohold II
Expanded Cargohold II
Expanded Cargohold II
Expanded Cargohold II

Large Shield Extender II
Large Shield Extender II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
EM Ward Field II
Prototype 100MN MicroWarpdrive I

Miner II
Miner II
Miner II
Miner II
Miner II
Miner II

Large Cargohold Optimization I
Large Cargohold Optimization I
Large Cargohold Optimization I


Mining Drone II x5
Mining Drone II x5
Hammerhead II x10
Hobgoblin II x10


Might not be quite as good as the rokh for the amount it pulls in (not far behind including drones) but it had a nice cargo bay size/mining rate that meant it was mostly hands free for a decent period at a time - enough to do other stuff between a few clicks to empty the cargo bay to a waiting alt who'd haul it to station. If your worried about tank it can be tanked up more fairly easily.
Cirage
Ventus
#27 - 2012-05-30 16:08:41 UTC
Where is the ORE corporation in all this? I think from a sandbox and l(ore) point of view they should react. Here is my preferred reaction:

"In response to the increased amount of terrorist attacks in Empire space, the ORE corporation decided to take the cheap and available Dominix and refit it as a mining vessel. The changes included a bonus to mining yield for turrets and drones."

That and an introduction of "ice crystals" which would make modulated deep core miners able to mine ice.
stoicfaux
#28 - 2012-05-30 17:22:05 UTC
Cirage wrote:
Where is the ORE corporation in all this? I think from a sandbox and l(ore) point of view they should react. Here is my preferred reaction:

"In response to the increased amount of terrorist attacks in Empire space, the O

Unfortunately, ship design isn't part of the player driven sandbox.

Pon Farr Memorial: once every 7 years, all the carebears in high-sec must PvP or they will be temp-banned.
Salo Aldeland
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#29 - 2012-05-30 19:13:48 UTC
The ongoing bounties are only for Hulks and Macks, according this post. Get out ye ole Coveter!
Skorpynekomimi
#30 - 2012-05-30 19:39:42 UTC
**** trying to find and fit a BS. Seriously. **** it. I can acquire covetors easily, there's not a lot of loss in the yield, and I can always pull out the hulk for higher yield when I'm not mining in a belt.

Don't need an absurd shield-boost deadspace module tank in highsec. Just some strip miners and a survey scanner. And if it DOES get popped, all I've lost is a hold full of ore and a 25mil ship.
That's only a mission's worth of income. Maybe two.

But this isn't sustainable. Goons will change their plans when trit hits 10 ISK a unit, and fuel blocks are astronomically expensive.

Economic PVP
Mira Lynne
State War Academy
Caldari State
#31 - 2012-05-30 19:40:32 UTC
EFT Isnt availible to me ATM, been wondering what sort of Yield A Rokh would get with 3x Processor Overclocking units, meaning that less lows need to be used for Co-Processors and more can be used for Mining Laser Upgrades.
These new CPU Rigs may be the Death of the Hulk.

[u]I, too, horse frogs.[/u] Support the Return of Realistic Module Icons! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=114818&find=unread
Salo Aldeland
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#32 - 2012-05-30 19:46:05 UTC
Skorpynekomimi wrote:
But this isn't sustainable. Goons will change their plans when trit hits 10 ISK a unit, and fuel blocks are astronomically expensive.


Is it really ice and ore they're trying to drive up, or tech?
Kasutra
No Vacancies
No Vacancies.
#33 - 2012-05-30 21:10:03 UTC
Mira Lynne wrote:
EFT Isnt availible to me ATM, been wondering what sort of Yield A Rokh would get with 3x Processor Overclocking units, meaning that less lows need to be used for Co-Processors and more can be used for Mining Laser Upgrades.
These new CPU Rigs may be the Death of the Hulk.

The T1 Processor Overclocking Units demand 150 calibration, you're not fitting three of them.

Could get four mining laser upgrades on, I think. But that's going to affect your tank.
Wacktopia
Fleet-Up.com
Keep It Simple Software Group
#34 - 2012-05-30 21:10:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Wacktopia
Riven Aleem wrote:
[quote=Maeltstome]
No, I really think that only the Hi-sec gate and belt gankers have anything to fear from this. No true PvPer will be worried about changes to protect people in Empire space.


EVE is a pvp game. Just look at every video CCP ever made; it shows people killing each other. I would say no true EvE player would think that PVP is optional.

Kitchen sink? Seriousy, get your ship together -  Fleet-Up.com
Salo Aldeland
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#35 - 2012-05-30 21:14:19 UTC
Mira Lynne wrote:
EFT Isnt availible to me ATM, been wondering what sort of Yield A Rokh would get with 3x Processor Overclocking units, meaning that less lows need to be used for Co-Processors and more can be used for Mining Laser Upgrades.
These new CPU Rigs may be the Death of the Hulk.


[Rokh, New Setup 1]
Mining Laser Upgrade II
Mining Laser Upgrade II
Mining Laser Upgrade II
Mining Laser Upgrade II
Mining Laser Upgrade II

[empty med slot]
[empty med slot]
[empty med slot]
[empty med slot]
[empty med slot]
[empty med slot]

Miner II
Miner II
Miner II
Miner II
Miner II
Miner II
Miner II
Miner II

Large Processor Overclocking Unit I
Large Processor Overclocking Unit I
[empty rig slot]

CA -1, CA - 2 and 5% CPU implants. 1154 ore per minute. I think it's 1300 and change for a Covetor using the new CPU rigs and maybe one or two CPU implants to fit two Mining Upgrade II's.
Ira Infernus
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#36 - 2012-05-30 21:56:59 UTC
...And here i have been mining away haplessly in hulks in lowsec, yet to witness a ganker, pirate, or any other threat. Silly me.
ReptilesBlade
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#37 - 2012-05-30 22:00:58 UTC
Tarn Kugisa wrote:
Normally I roll with:

Similar mining yield, good tank, also has OK DPS.


I use this for nullsec because of target jammer:

[Scorpion, Miner Sting]
Expanded Cargohold II
Expanded Cargohold II
Signal Amplifier II
Damage Control II

Survey Scanner II
ECM - Multispectral Jammer II
ECM - Multispectral Jammer II
ECM Burst II
Large Shield Extender II
Large Shield Extender II
Large Shield Extender II
Large Shield Booster II

Modulated Deep Core Miner II, Veldspar Mining Crystal II
Modulated Deep Core Miner II, Veldspar Mining Crystal II
Modulated Deep Core Miner II, Veldspar Mining Crystal II
Modulated Deep Core Miner II, Veldspar Mining Crystal II
Rapid Light Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Light Missile
Rapid Light Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Light Missile

Large Core Defense Field Extender I
Large Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I
Large Core Defense Capacitor Safeguard I


Hammerhead I x5
Mining Drone I x5


Seriously. You just gave me a reason to love my old scorpion again and maybe never fear gankers again! Hell even lowsec mining sounds good again.

Ye Gods thank you!
Jorma Morkkis
State War Academy
Caldari State
#38 - 2012-05-30 22:04:35 UTC
Salo Aldeland wrote:
The ongoing bounties are only for Hulks and Macks, according this post. Get out ye ole Coveter!


You just want more targets for your disco fleet.

Salo Aldeland wrote:
CA -1, CA - 2 and 5% CPU implants. 1154 ore per minute. I think it's 1300 and change for a Covetor using the new CPU rigs and maybe one or two CPU implants to fit two Mining Upgrade II's.


Wrong mining lasers. Needs T2 crystals.
warzonetemp
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#39 - 2012-05-31 01:14:21 UTC  |  Edited by: warzonetemp
Ira Infernus wrote:
...And here i have been mining away haplessly in hulks in lowsec, yet to witness a ganker, pirate, or any other threat. Silly me.


You mean the low sec that is protected by your capitals and is out like 40 jumps away from the closest goon staging point P

By the way, why don't miners ever plan for hulkageddon, like I don't know stash away 20% of your ore at a station and when the **** hits the fan like right now, cash in on it. Think about it, trit is worth twice in some spots if not higher, it's easy to mine and always in demand. If there's a back up supply, then no matter how many hulks gets ganked, the prices won't be affected.

The players behind the Gankers probably have their own supplies for post hulkageddon. When the dust has settled and prices are inflated, they can release ore back into the market and make hundreds of billions, while paying out like 1% of their income to these gankers as "rewards". That is good trade warfare. The gankers enjoy killing things to vent off some steam. The PvP traders behind them, who might advocate a non-carebear approach to the game, but in reality they enjoy manipulating markets.

I wonder why people don't ask for hulkageddon rewards to be even higher than they are currently, I mean a fully fitted firetail or even a faction fitted BS versus what their backers actually make is chump change. Why settle for a few billion isk worth in merchandise and reward money and not the tens of billions that PvP'ers should be getting in compensation for these contribution to their fortune?
Kara Books
Deal with IT.
#40 - 2012-05-31 02:25:24 UTC
Maeltstome wrote:
Riven Aleem wrote:
Jho Ren wrote:
More organized mining corps will probably find ways to better protect themselves and their exhumers.


Except you can't. There's no viable way to protect a mining ship from the alpha strike of a determined suicide ganker.

A good way would be for something like an Orca to have a "Gang Link Shield Transfer" module, where it can take the hits in place of the ships under its command, or where mining vessels that are in a fleet 'pool' their shield so that to destroy one, you'd have to overwhelm the shields of the whole fleet.

This won't protect solo farmers, but will allow group mining to continue (and thus promote group mining over solo)

The simplest solution is to increase Hulk shield to fit with it's description. Or create a true invulnerability module, where activation gives 10 seconds of absolute invulnerability, but it has a 30 minute CD. Enough to survive the Alpha strike and allow Concord to do their work, while you go hide in station for it to recharge.


Every single one of your idea's is just awful. literally would be abused in every possible way by PVP'ers and would break the whole concept of EVE. Don't wreck the game just cause some kids are having fun. They will get bored and run out of money... OR they will spend too much time ganking hulks and start loosing space.


This is exactly what goons are trolling the devs into trying to do right now, Increase the value of their Moon goo by increasing the value of the ORE T2 ships.

Simply mine in a rokh till this whole shapade dies out, Dont fall for the goon plot and stop buying hulks, sorry merchant friends who have invested, liquidate and push against the goon trolls, Inform the devs constantly, in local and on the forums.
Dont get trolled.
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