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What is the point of High Sec?

Author
Natsett Amuinn
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#221 - 2012-05-29 14:44:30 UTC
EVE Roy Mustang wrote:
Natsett Amuinn wrote:
Simetraz wrote:
Natsett Amuinn wrote:


Can you point to the part were it says that other players can't target or shoot you in the "tutorial zones"?



It has been stated over and over that you can't can bait newbies, gank etc etc etc newbies in the starter systems.
of which there are what 8 or 12 in game all 1.0 systems.

Those are the ONLY systems systems that players are protected and are considered tutorial zones.

Every other system in game is a free for all.
High-sec is NOT a newbie area, if it was burn Jita, hulkageddon, ganking, war-dec's etc etc etc would not be allowed in High-sec.
The only thing you are guaranteed in High-sec is that if someone shoots you without a war dec they will lose their ship.
That is it, NOTHING else.







6 years ago I did the tutorial. I can't be expected to remember how a system worked 6 years ago.
I can't even be expected to bathe properly today.


well then feel free to gank them and get banned, we need more Goons like you


If there were more goons like me, then the goons wouldn't be any fun..

I've never shot at any persons ship, ever.




Xindi Kraid
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
#222 - 2012-05-30 01:33:51 UTC
I live out in the boonies where you get shot at just for passing though (and I have been shot at for passing though), and I like it out there.

High sec is a nice place to do business, though. Now, nowhere in EvE is 100% safe, but it is significantly easier to prepare logistics to get you ready for combat when you aren't actively engaged in combat. Of course if you aren't a noob corp sissie, there's a wrench in that sometimes. My own alliance is currently under a war dec, in fact.
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#223 - 2012-05-30 03:29:49 UTC
Xindi Kraid wrote:
I live out in the boonies where you get shot at just for passing though (and I have been shot at for passing though), and I like it out there.

High sec is a nice place to do business, though. Now, nowhere in EvE is 100% safe, but it is significantly easier to prepare logistics to get you ready for combat when you aren't actively engaged in combat. Of course if you aren't a noob corp sissie, there's a wrench in that sometimes. My own alliance is currently under a war dec, in fact.

NPC corps are the way to go.

Yes, you might want a POS for compressing the minerals, but hey, CCP gave us the NPC corp tool, we better make full use of it !

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?

Vyl Vit
#224 - 2012-05-30 07:19:59 UTC
Eva Rourge wrote:
Vyl Vit wrote:
So I ask, "What is the point of your question, and who are "you" to ask?"


I am the average Eve player but wait... what does your age have anything to do with anything rather than your age and who are you to ask me who i am? I'm 39, i like to listen to Muse and enjoy firearms competitively. I have 2 children and am at this very moment pouring myself a glass of scotch. Anything else?

Well, if you read the post without a chip on your shoulder about your age, you'd see I'm conveying I've played games to win, rabid competition, longer than you've been ALIVE. Some of us out here just aren't that into cracking open other people's skulls for the scoreboard anymore. When you reach MY age, you'll see what I'm saying.

The point you apparently MISSED was...so why do PvP-ers think they can railroad me out of what other things this sandbox has to offer just because they do what they do the way THEY do it?

No need to thank me for the clarification.

Paradise is like where you are right now, only much, much better.

Roime
Mea Culpa.
Shadow Cartel
#225 - 2012-05-30 08:16:23 UTC
Talon SilverHawk wrote:

Play style is the way you play the game, be it miner, PVP god or what ever.

Some ppl love the manufacturing, PI, trading part of Eve but don't want to play pew pew, others want to shoot everything that moves and a few things that don't and screw non combat roles.

All should be catered for in Eve

Tal


Now we are getting somewhere, and that somewhere is the "don't want to play pew pew", and the misconception that someone out there wants to screw non-combat roles. Anyway, most EVE players don't fall under one easily defined "play style", in order to succeed in this sandbox, you either need to do a little bit of everything/many things, or succumb to defined role as part of a large organization. Instead of clearly defined black & white playstyles, there are numerous shades of gray.

"Don't want to play pew" however, is a black & white view, and not catered for in EVE, never will be and those looking for that kind of game simply need to unsub and leave. There will always be non-consensual PVP everywhere in EVE, this been stated numerous times by CCP. So, you can't stick to this "play style" in EVE, you need to adapt. Finding friends to protect you would be the most obvious choice in an MMO, moving out of hisec is also the sensible thing to do.

I guess from their viewpoint, the gankers and ebil piwates want to screw non-combat roles when they blow haulers and miners up, but that is really just a part of the game. These guys, like Goons as the currently popular example, might have huge industrial wings in their organisations. Shooting miners not blue to them is playing the game, manipulating the economy for their own good.

I do PI, sometimes harvest gas and mine as well, build ships from mineral stockpiles I acquired with capital I created from active cross-regional trading. I enjoy exploration too, but most of all I enjoy living in wormhole space where I can take care of my own, and shoot who I want without anyone interfering. This is true independence, only available in a virtual game universe. Why be a slave of a virtual society, when you can build your own corner with your own rules?

Finally, EVE comes down to this imho:

If I blow up your ship and pod you, was it because I didn't like your playstyle or drive you out of the game, or because you failed and couldn't defend yourself?






.

Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
#226 - 2012-05-30 08:22:45 UTC
High sec exists for one reason:

People will kill everything that moves if they can (in a game of course) and that includes EVERYTHING.

Even the noobs.


Ever get corpsed camped by a max level rogue in a starter zone in WoW, on a PVP server? Heck at least in this game the people who got you the first time have to wait 15 minutes before they can do it again.


Bring back DEEEEP Space!

Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#227 - 2012-05-30 08:58:34 UTC
Sentient Blade wrote:
Highsec is a barrier that ensures no one group can ever completely control EvE to the detriment of everyone else.


It sort of failed at that, didn't it?

Hi sec only puts in a cost into doing that. Once someone is too big to care about costs, that obstacle becomes irrelevant.
Roime
Mea Culpa.
Shadow Cartel
#228 - 2012-05-30 09:02:00 UTC
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
Sentient Blade wrote:
Highsec is a barrier that ensures no one group can ever completely control EvE to the detriment of everyone else.


It sort of failed at that, didn't it?

Hi sec only puts in a cost into doing that. Once someone is too big to care about costs, that obstacle becomes irrelevant.


When did that happen?

.

Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#229 - 2012-05-30 09:07:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Vaerah Vahrokha
Roime wrote:
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
Sentient Blade wrote:
Highsec is a barrier that ensures no one group can ever completely control EvE to the detriment of everyone else.


It sort of failed at that, didn't it?

Hi sec only puts in a cost into doing that. Once someone is too big to care about costs, that obstacle becomes irrelevant.


When did that happen?


Some months ago.

I am actually surprised no goon has thought about how fun it'd be to permanently camp every hi sec main and secondary route and hub. Something like burn Jita (which would be a "beta test" but permanent and spread everywhere).

If I was a goon I'd force EvE to die just because it's amusing. Plus they already rolled on several GW2 servers, so they have a replacement game where to go anyway.
Roime
Mea Culpa.
Shadow Cartel
#230 - 2012-05-30 09:10:25 UTC
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:


Some months ago.

I am actually surprised no goon has thought about how fun it'd be to permanently camp every hi sec main and secondary route and hub. Something like burn Jita (which would be a "beta test" but permanent and spread everywhere).

If I was a goon I'd force EvE to die just because it's amusing. Plus they already rolled on several GW2 servers, so they have a replacement game where to go anyway.


lol @ Goons controlling your game

They do control the propaganda war.

.

Tor Gungnir
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#231 - 2012-05-30 09:11:03 UTC
From what I've gathered on the forum, the point of High-Sec is apparently to kill EVE Online.

Space. It seems to go on and on forever. But then you get to the end and a gorilla starts throwing barrels at you.

Jori McKie
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#232 - 2012-05-30 09:42:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Jori McKie
Highsec should be a starting area and a recreation area (hotels, shopping mall etc.) but by no means an ISK fountain themepark area as it is right now.

The major problems with highsec are the false sense of security and it's incentive to stay combined with it's themepark modeling.
Many new players get the sense that highsec in EVE is the same environment as in any other themepark MMO with a sprinkle of danger. You can try to get rid of that false sense of security with warnings and game mechanic but it won't change the attitude/feeling of many players as there is still the themepark modeling.

There is only one way, get rid of the ISK fountain themepark area in highsec. Just reduce the possible ISK income to a degree that absolute new players can progress the ~ first month with ease but then have to think about new ISK sources.

That means of course the reward in the dangerous areas of EVE like lowsec and 0.0 should be high enough that you can afford to loose some stuff occasionally. At best the reward in lowsec and 0.0 will be dynamic like highest rewards in the most dangerous areas defined by the worth of destroyed player stuff in that area over a period of time. So to say if you PvE (be it missions, mining, industry etc.) in the backyard or an alliance controlled system where less player stuff has been destroyed the reward will be great but if you want the absolute best reward in game you have to go a very high risk system with lots of player stuff destroyed.
To define the risk in a system just use a dynamic security level for any 0.0 and lowsec system, the lower the security level the more dangerous it is but the higher the PvE reward will be.

CCP can implented that easy as the changes in UI and FW already have the basics to calculate the ISK worth of stuff. CCP needs to implement a dynamic security system for any 0.0 and lowsec system.


Examples:
A system with a mission agent but zero destroyed player stuff over a period of time will have a security level of 0.5. Small reward and less dangerous.
A system with a mission agent but some destroyed player stuff over a period of time will have a security level of 0.25. Medium reward and more dangerous
A system with a mission agent but lots of destroyed player stuff over a period of time will have a security level of 0. High reward and really dangerous.

In a system with 0.5 security status the belt rats will give a small bounty.
In a system with 0.25 security status the belt rats will give a medium bounty.
In a system with 0 security status the belt rats will give a high bounty.

You can adress the whole system to any PvE activity even to industry, like if you build ships in a 0 security system, the build time and costs are reduced, more industry and research slots etc.

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." - Abrazzar

Baldrik DeLeNoir
Beltane Legion
#233 - 2012-05-30 10:15:33 UTC
Hi sec is supposed to a "sliding scale" of safety leading to low sec, which is also supposed to more lawless the lower it gets. This seems to have been forgotten by CCP.

If it was all "just one big battlefield" the lack of variation would get really boring, personally anyway - can't answer for others.
Roime
Mea Culpa.
Shadow Cartel
#234 - 2012-05-30 10:25:20 UTC
I agree with both posters above, especially Jori has good points.

I'd like to see NPCs podding players. Rats would pod in < -0.5, CONCORD and Navies would pod outlaws in > 0.5, and negative sec status pilots in > 0.9.

Hisec shouldn't be harder just for the bears.

.

N'maro Makari
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
#235 - 2012-05-30 10:36:14 UTC  |  Edited by: N'maro Makari
BEHOLD! A MIGHTY NULL PLAYER! TREMBLE BEFORE ME! WOMEN WANT ME AND MEN FEAR ME! I AM A GOD AMONG MEN, IMMUNE TO PROJECTILES, RAILGUNS, MISSILES AND MOST OF ALL, LOGIC! PLAYING IN NULL HAS ENDOWED ME WITH A 46 INCH MANHOOD AND WASHBOARD ABS!

THIS! IS! NULLSEC!

There is of course a serious point to all that, not all of EVE is null and that is so for a good reson. Not everyone wants to be one drip in a blob following some null overlords bidding. To some, the large fleet fights, and the high stakes game of strategy simply isnt tempting. Hi, Low, Null and WH are just different ways of playing the same game. Hi sec exists, end of.

**Vherokior **

c4 t
Cosmic Psychedelics
#236 - 2012-05-30 10:36:58 UTC
Eva Rourge wrote:
No wall of text here, just a simple question. A clear one sentence reply would benice.

Edit: Since i've gotten a few replies suggesting that this is a thread about how safe high sec needs to be... let me add the following to my original question: Do we really need high sec at all or (as someone recently pointed out) what is the point of having multiple security levels when we can have just one big battlefield?


Troll or idiot.
Lfod Shi
Lfod's Ratting and Salvage
#237 - 2012-05-30 10:43:27 UTC
It's not Pure-sec. Hi-sec is like walking down the streets of NYC. Cops everywhere but you can still get shot in the back at any given time.

♪ They'll always be bloodclaws to me ♫

Lin-Young Borovskova
Doomheim
#238 - 2012-05-30 10:48:14 UTC
Eva Rourge wrote:
No wall of text here, just a simple question. A clear one sentence reply would benice.

Edit: Since i've gotten a few replies suggesting that this is a thread about how safe high sec needs to be... let me add the following to my original question: Do we really need high sec at all or (as someone recently pointed out) what is the point of having multiple security levels when we can have just one big battlefield?


2 numbers:

10 years

-/+ 45k (up to 61 and rabbles when everyone logs all alts or creates some new ones just because numbers are cool)


If it looks like crap

If it smells like crap

Then it's most probably, crap.

brb

Jacob Holland
Weyland-Vulcan Industries
#239 - 2012-05-30 12:34:48 UTC
Tippia wrote:
We have tutorial areas to take care of that.

The difficulty with that suggestion is that most of the tutorials aren't in the tutorial areas.

The starter systems, with their protection against baiting and so forth, are the starting point for very little of the new player experience; most of the rest occurs in the career agent systems (normally two jumps away from the home system).

The career agent section of the tutorial occurs in regular highsec, and they see quite a high level of newbie-greifing (can baiting, agro-manipulation...etc) because of their lack of protection.


To the question itself however...

In my opinion High Sec is somewhere between a free port and a wild west town.

It is a place where people can come to trade with minimal political interference and minimal control, it is the place where you can get your horse shoed because it's the place with a blacksmith/farrier, it's the place you can go for some whiskey and a few hands of cards - but if you shoot the guy you think is cheating then the marshall is not likely to be pleased and you might want to get out of town sharpish...

In highsec you might look ascance at your enemies but it's possible to do business with them - whereas under normal cirumstances the red on the overview (or lack of blue on the overview) would mean either running or fighting.
Dors Venabily
United Starbase Systems
#240 - 2012-05-30 12:53:50 UTC
Eva Rourge wrote:
Darth Tickles wrote:
Pretty sure I see where this is going.

Hulk pilots aren't "new" players.

End of thread. Next.


On the contrary, i personally have no bias. I dont mine and i could care less. I am simply curious as to why this aspect of the game exists and does it succeed or fail as fulfilling its function.


It is the only reason there are enough people subscribed to keep this game going. As such it is the reason the game exists and it succeeds in fulfilling this function.