These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE General Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

A question about the future of eve
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
GeeBee
Backwater Redux
Tactical Narcotics Team
#1 - 2012-05-24 10:17:25 UTC
So when i heard about the drone alloy nerf at first i was happy because it was sticking it to the botter's and mining would be profitable again. But then i started to think, can we even mine enough to sustain the economy within the game? The variables are hard to compile, but the theory is 1) Eve is running a deficit on T1 minerals eg we are destroying more T1 minerals than we are producing 2) we are currently floating on old stock 3) it is impossible to measure old stock and impossible to set a timeline until we have "shortfalls" 4) when old stock finally depletes or is near depletion the prices of ships are going to skyrocket and the game will become near unplayable for many as the economy is reset to circa 2005 but with more isk floating in the economy.

For the pvp side of the game we like cheap obtainable ships for going out to blow each other up in; eg expensive ships stagnate pvp. But the counter argument is there are cheaper options, if you can afford the expensive ship to pvp in fly a cheaper alternative. And the counter argument to that is cheaper ships have a hard time countering expensive ships, and for pvp to be fun and i dare say "fair" ships need to be cheap and obtainable for everyone.

I agree with the removal of drone alloys and the reduction of the high refine loots from missions and ratting, ratting with guns bad check. But mining needs to be a viable source to supply the needs of the market. Also the game is somewhat stacked against miners, in high sec they are easily ganked by griefers who are looking for cheap and easy lolz and in 0.0 there is a global indicator from the industry index to see if anyone is mining there. The mining foreman mindlink only comes from a storyline mission and can't be obtained by any other means, unlike the other mindlinks that come from the pirate LP stores as well. is there a reason that couldn't be seeded by maybe the ore LP store? other than the ore faction iself consists of only 2 systems and 4 stations, 3 L1 agents, 9 L2 agents, 3 L3 agents, and 2 L4 agents.

So my question to the DEV's is my theory true? You're the only ones who can get the data to even analyze the situation. If it is a possibility are there going to be any changes or buffs to mining so that the mineral market in eve can sustain itself? I know the ring mining is going to be implemented but that is more focused on an active mining source for T2 goodies.

-GeeBee
Pok Nibin
Doomheim
#2 - 2012-05-24 10:22:34 UTC
Since EVE doesn't conform to the individual whims of 250,000 people, it's going to die...to quote someone on the forum eight years ago....seven years ago...six years ago...five years ago...yesterday...It's taking longer than Generalissimo Franco to kick the bucket.

The right to free speech doesn't automatically carry with it the right to be taken seriously.
Nova Fox
Novafox Shipyards
#3 - 2012-05-24 10:23:19 UTC
My broken crystal ball says they're getting rid of asteriod belts and moon mining and moving them all into the planetary rings.

That will get alot of people pissed off.

Dust 514's CPM 1 Iron Wolf Saber Eve mail me about Dust 514 issues.
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#4 - 2012-05-24 10:34:43 UTC
Nova Fox wrote:
My broken crystal ball says they're getting rid of asteriod belts and moon mining and moving them all into the planetary rings.

That will get alot of people pissed off.

I don't think the logistics people will be too annoyed if the moon mining thing went elsewhere...

But asteroids? That would annoy the highsec miners. Plus, make i harder to mind stuff that gives sweet tritanium. Which, we all know, will reduce the growth of nullsec supercapital fleets that require billions of units of tritanium. (Still not rare though.)

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Zhihatsu
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#5 - 2012-05-24 10:59:22 UTC
GeeBee wrote:
So when i heard about the drone alloy nerf at first i was happy because it was sticking it to the botter's and mining would be profitable again. But then i started to think, can we even mine enough to sustain the economy within the game? The variables are hard to compile, but the theory is 1) Eve is running a deficit on T1 minerals eg we are destroying more T1 minerals than we are producing 2) we are currently floating on old stock 3) it is impossible to measure old stock and impossible to set a timeline until we have "shortfalls" 4) when old stock finally depletes or is near depletion the prices of ships are going to skyrocket and the game will become near unplayable for many as the economy is reset to circa 2005 but with more isk floating in the economy.

For the pvp side of the game we like cheap obtainable ships for going out to blow each other up in; eg expensive ships stagnate pvp. But the counter argument is there are cheaper options, if you can afford the expensive ship to pvp in fly a cheaper alternative. And the counter argument to that is cheaper ships have a hard time countering expensive ships, and for pvp to be fun and i dare say "fair" ships need to be cheap and obtainable for everyone.

I agree with the removal of drone alloys and the reduction of the high refine loots from missions and ratting, ratting with guns bad check. But mining needs to be a viable source to supply the needs of the market. Also the game is somewhat stacked against miners, in high sec they are easily ganked by griefers who are looking for cheap and easy lolz and in 0.0 there is a global indicator from the industry index to see if anyone is mining there. The mining foreman mindlink only comes from a storyline mission and can't be obtained by any other means, unlike the other mindlinks that come from the pirate LP stores as well. is there a reason that couldn't be seeded by maybe the ore LP store? other than the ore faction iself consists of only 2 systems and 4 stations, 3 L1 agents, 9 L2 agents, 3 L3 agents, and 2 L4 agents.

So my question to the DEV's is my theory true? You're the only ones who can get the data to even analyze the situation. If it is a possibility are there going to be any changes or buffs to mining so that the mineral market in eve can sustain itself? I know the ring mining is going to be implemented but that is more focused on an active mining source for T2 goodies.

-GeeBee


The game really isn't stacked against miners the way you suggest it. Sure, it's a bit frustrating for them right now, but mass ganking of Hulks doesn't happen all the time.

As for the question of mineral supply keeping up with demand, I think that once we start to see mineral prices rise again, we will see more people, in all levels of security, start mining again (or just for the first time). Sure, it won't be like before, with 350m isk Orcas and stuff, but things really were only that cheap because of botting and everything like that. It wasn't a natural state for the economy to be in, and it lead to wrong impressions of how the economy should be for a lot of people.

People without faces have no mouths with which to speak.
GeeBee
Backwater Redux
Tactical Narcotics Team
#6 - 2012-05-30 11:59:43 UTC
Zhihatsu wrote:

The game really isn't stacked against miners the way you suggest it. Sure, it's a bit frustrating for them right now, but mass ganking of Hulks doesn't happen all the time.

As for the question of mineral supply keeping up with demand, I think that once we start to see mineral prices rise again, we will see more people, in all levels of security, start mining again (or just for the first time). Sure, it won't be like before, with 350m isk Orcas and stuff, but things really were only that cheap because of botting and everything like that. It wasn't a natural state for the economy to be in, and it lead to wrong impressions of how the economy should be for a lot of people.


Well suicide ganking of mining ships in empire can happen at ANY time for a much lower cost than the mining barge. And for more people mining i doubt there will be enough people that can stomach the mining in the game to keep up with the demands of the population. Previously the farming of drone loot could provide a near infinite amount of minerals easily quickly and safely and came pre-compressed and all. Doing a full mining operation means hauling large amounts of ore in high volume to either a refinery directly or after compression, then either making product in station/moving it to another station for production or compression to move somewhere else to build something.

I personally still can't picture myself ore mining because isk farming anoms is more profitable and fun anyway. I'm really hoping the dev's are working on more than just moon mining alternatives for the ring mining change.

Things id like to see in a mining revamp

1) fun mining content, currently most content for mining ops is youtube.
2) more ore densities, base, 5% and 10% are somewhat weak, it would be nice to see more dense ores that scale with security status of the systems.
3) remove global industry index and military index, this should not be public information.
4) Possibly change the base ore densities so to help ease the logistics of mining operations. Could include adjusting ore mined on ships as well, would help increase profits for solo miners that aren't can mining.
5) Make current mining ships less gankable, or make new ones that are less gankable. I mean you think the industrialists would have come up with a better solution by now, they are industrious aren't they?
6) Capital mining ship(that actually mines)? Supercapital industrial that has refine and production?

Again I really think for the good of the game volumes of minerals need to be easily obtained for destruction, which means making mining either more profitable or more fun so that economic balance can be maintained.

-GeeBee
Carton Mantory
Vindicate and Deliverance
#7 - 2012-05-30 12:35:09 UTC
EVE has not changed in 9 years really. We mine and blow things up. There are sub cultures and of industry and blowing things up but really EVE has not changed.

I dont see any change that would alter the way the game provide ships or blow them up.


If we had combat in station or we could interact with planets like we heard soo many years ago then we would see change.


CCP is a billing company and will alway be one in my eyes. Good try guys when are you going to free accounts or sell to SOE???
GeeBee
Backwater Redux
Tactical Narcotics Team
#8 - 2012-05-30 12:44:04 UTC
Carton Mantory wrote:
EVE has not changed in 9 years really. We mine and blow things up. There are sub cultures and of industry and blowing things up but really EVE has not changed.

I dont see any change that would alter the way the game provide ships or blow them up.


If we had combat in station or we could interact with planets like we heard soo many years ago then we would see change.


CCP is a billing company and will alway be one in my eyes. Good try guys when are you going to free accounts or sell to SOE???


The removal of drone alloys is a major impact upon the eve economy, the initial effects of market speculation made quite a dent in the market, as for the long term effects only time will tell. But drones also producing bounties has added even more isk / bounty farming to the game which will further inflate the market. I'd have argue that things have changed on a foundation level for the mechanics of the T1 mineral economy.

-GeeBee
Doc Severide
Doomheim
#9 - 2012-05-30 12:49:47 UTC
I went mining......once....