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Noob Ship Advice needed

Author
Ellyham Asellus
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#1 - 2012-05-30 09:14:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Ellyham Asellus
So I've come to the somewhat embarrassing conclusion that my gunnery skills need lots of work. I can currently use t2 tank (both shield and armor) have caldari/gallente frig/cruiser/bc 5 with t2 drones but can only use small t2 hybrid guns. I'd like to pick up a t2 ship before i begin about 200 days of gunnery training

I was thinking of picking up an assault frigate or interceptor like the ishkur or the Taranis. My combat situation is hi-sec wars where I'm often the scout, bait or tackler (usually t1 frigate) depending on the need. Any suggestions to what I can fly with my skill set for the next couple of months? Are Interceptors are waste of time these days? Are AFs a reasonable substitute for a tackler? Should I just be flying a 1600 plate vexor with small guns instead?

My enemies are generally drake, tornado, the occasional dram/daredevil and the occasional battleship usually dominix.
Pinky Denmark
The Cursed Navy
#2 - 2012-05-30 09:27:58 UTC
For bait / tackler I'd try to get an assault ship - They seem to work great in empire...
If you need to pin down a target for your friends to arrive have you attempted an active shield booster setup with one of these new ancillary shield boosters on perhaps a Hawk? Doesn't matter that much to fly with arbalest rocket launchers or similar.

That said don't worry too much about skills - the plated light blaster vexor works nice btw so you have plenty options...
The rest you can easily train into

Pinky
Lance Shrike
Navigators Group Inc.
#3 - 2012-05-30 09:44:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Lance Shrike
Derailing this thread is not my intention, but I have also a "noob ship" question. I don't want to create yet another thread for it though. So if OP doesn't mind I would like to ask something.

Are electronic attack ships any good in small gang PvP? I have seen some nice Sentinel (bonus to neuts and nos) fits and I love the engagement style of this ship. Burn to target, stay outside scramble & web range, neut his cap while your drones and/or your buddies blast him to pieces. Any thoughts?
Maeltstome
Ten Thousand Days
#4 - 2012-05-30 10:10:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Maeltstome
Lance Shrike wrote:
Derailing this thread is not my intention, but I have also a "noob ship" question. I don't want to create yet another thread for it though. So if OP doesn't mind I would like to ask something.

Are electronic attack ships any good in small gang PvP? I have seen some nice Sentinel (bonus to neuts and nos) fits and I love the engagement style of this ship. Burn to target, stay outside scramble & web range, neut his cap while your drones and/or your buddies blast him to pieces. Any thoughts?


The kitsune is awesome. The sentinel is good against frigates IF you are an experienced pilot.

The minmatar/gallente frigs though are basically not worth flying over a regular interceptor though.

@OP

The retribution is an excellent ship for DPS, baiting and can tackle reasonably well.

Also, as far as skills go, get all gunnery skills to at least level 4 then learn to use t2 large guns of both short-range and long-range. These will give you support skills that are decent. Wont take 200 days either :)
Daniel Plain
Doomheim
#5 - 2012-05-30 10:17:00 UTC
Lance Shrike wrote:
Derailing this thread is not my intention, but I have also a "noob ship" question. I don't want to create yet another thread for it though. So if OP doesn't mind I would like to ask something.

Are electronic attack ships any good in small gang PvP? I have seen some nice Sentinel (bonus to neuts and nos) fits and I love the engagement style of this ship. Burn to target, stay outside scramble & web range, neut his cap while your drones and/or your buddies blast him to pieces. Any thoughts?

i have no experience with ewar, but my guess is that the sentinel will get primary'd a lot. maybe try a kitsune, it has the advantage that your target cannot attack you except with drones.

I should buy an Ishtar.

Lin-Young Borovskova
Doomheim
#6 - 2012-05-30 12:08:12 UTC
Ellyham Asellus wrote:
So I've come to the somewhat embarrassing conclusion that my gunnery skills need lots of work. I can currently use t2 tank (both shield and armor) have caldari/gallente frig/cruiser/bc 5 with t2 drones but can only use small t2 hybrid guns. I'd like to pick up a t2 ship before i begin about 200 days of gunnery training

I was thinking of picking up an assault frigate or interceptor like the ishkur or the Taranis. My combat situation is hi-sec wars where I'm often the scout, bait or tackler (usually t1 frigate) depending on the need. Any suggestions to what I can fly with my skill set for the next couple of months? Are Interceptors are waste of time these days? Are AFs a reasonable substitute for a tackler? Should I just be flying a 1600 plate vexor with small guns instead?

My enemies are generally drake, tornado, the occasional dram/daredevil and the occasional battleship usually dominix.



Forget the 200day plan and look at it like this:

Support skills for gunnery have the same impact base support shield/armor skills have to other functions on your ship, once you have those you're free of some nasty crappy dirty tedious stuff.
Those support skills will improve overall your performances significantly once they're up to 5, then if you intend to mostly fly cruisers atm, just rush meds at 5 spec at 4, that's it and you just saved for about 45D training for a single race.

The day you have nothing else to train or because whatever reason, then train large guns. Those skills are a real pain to train so I'd actually advice you to train everything related to frigs/destroyers/cruisers/BCs T1/T2/T3.

There are so many roles in these categories you will never be bored to fly them at the point you feel the need to fly battleships.

brb

Daniel Plain
Doomheim
#7 - 2012-05-30 12:13:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Daniel Plain
Lin-Young Borovskova wrote:

The day you have nothing else to train or because whatever reason, then train large guns. Those skills are a real pain to train so I'd actually advice you to train everything related to frigs/destroyers/cruisers/BCs T1/T2/T3.

There are so many roles in these categories you will never be bored to fly them at the point you feel the need to fly battleships.


this is only true if you disregard lvl4s. please consider that there are very few ships that can run lvl4s efficiently that do not rely on large guns.

I should buy an Ishtar.

Lin-Young Borovskova
Doomheim
#8 - 2012-05-30 12:23:03 UTC
Lance Shrike wrote:
Are electronic attack ships any good in small gang PvP? I have seen some nice Sentinel (bonus to neuts and nos) fits and I love the engagement style of this ship. Burn to target, stay outside scramble & web range, neut his cap while your drones and/or your buddies blast him to pieces. Any thoughts?


They do and they don't short version.

Long version says only 2 of those 4 EAFs are useful because their racial EWAR is either STILL good, either don't because their EWAR got nerf to the point they're useless.

Usefull:
-Caldari = ECM ship, fast frigate but extremely fragile requires some attention on how to play it, however is a hell of an ECM boat

-Minmatar =+20% web range per level this talks by it self, decent tank and speed it's probably the best EAF imho

-Gallente = Uses Damps, and Damps are crap unless specific situations because you'll cut targeting range for sure but not significantly enough in most cases, ECM is better overall situations, result: don't fly it

-Amarr = Bonus to energy vampire and neutraliser, those were probably not that bad in frigate gangs vs frigate gangs but other than this it's just useless, add new battery changes and this ship is good for nothing.

This is just my personal feeling, my advice would be to tell you: fly the minnie and caldari ones (same base skills just a plus for the spec and oc 6D frigate 5)

brb

Lin-Young Borovskova
Doomheim
#9 - 2012-05-30 12:26:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Lin-Young Borovskova
Daniel Plain wrote:
Lin-Young Borovskova wrote:

The day you have nothing else to train or because whatever reason, then train large guns. Those skills are a real pain to train so I'd actually advice you to train everything related to frigs/destroyers/cruisers/BCs T1/T2/T3.

There are so many roles in these categories you will never be bored to fly them at the point you feel the need to fly battleships.


this is only true if you disregard lvl4s. please consider that there are very few ships that can run lvl4s efficiently that do not rely on large guns.



Drakes, Tengus, Zealots, Ishtar, Cerberus, and if you don't see Proteus inside it's probably because short range guns are really short and long range (med rails) are the most mediocre weapons of choice in game.

Edit: I forgot some Cruisers and BC's that decently run lvl4's like Legion or Nighthawk but there are more of them than you think, it's just that people think as per usual when you see some new player asking ships for lvl4's "HEY NOOB GO DOMINIX AFK DRONES AKA IS SO FUN"

Now, I can tell you you'll never run that efficiently your lvl4's than I can with my Tengu with a single T2 fit because bliz, and at that game not even an over fitted Machariel VS decent T2/faction Tengu can win. (If only my proteus or loki was that good...sniff)

It's not always a matter of size Lol , joke aside, the good tank/speed/sign radiius/dmg projection of all ships I've mentioned above are all excellent lvl4 ships, all depends of each ones game style.

brb

Liam Mirren
#10 - 2012-05-30 17:13:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Liam Mirren
Back to the original question: it really depends, if you do high sec wars then generally you'll fight on gates or stations and interceptors aren't really needed there but they can be quite handy when catching mission runners or grabbing miners in a belt so in a gang support role the Ares can make full sense as a dedicated tackler. Would you do solo roaming for targets then either a Taranis or Ishkur can work fine, both work but they do go for different targets and operate differently, so personal preference.

I'd shy away from using an Enyo (unless your reds are clueless) as it's a tad too easy to counter, you could also have a look at a Navy comet or Daredevil, the DD specifically is a frigate killer so it's great to roam around trying to catch folks zooming around in small ships.

Quote:
My enemies are generally drake, tornado, the occasional dram/daredevil and the occasional battleship usually dominix.


Drake - unless idiots don't even try
Tornado - if you can get the drop on it and away from a station or gate he'll die to any dps frigate assuming you have a scram and he's solo
Dram - stay away unless idiots, if you have to use a DD.
DD - don't approach with a frig, unless he's an idiot he'll either win or get away
dominix - not likely to happen, in pvp fit don't even try, in pve fit one has to assume kin/thermal resists so you using hybrids will never break that

Thing is, it's more about how good those pilots are than what they fly. You don't fight a ship but you fight a pilot so if they're clueless (and there's many years old clueless pilots in EVE) you can win just fine. If they know wtf they're doing then neither of the possible targets you listed is a valid target for any type of frig.

Excellence is not a skill, it's an attitude.