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Hiding in Eve- Why We Cloak

Author
Darion Amador
Followers of Ouroboros
#141 - 2012-05-29 11:42:54 UTC
+1 for potential.
Jajas Helper
#142 - 2012-05-29 11:44:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Jajas Helper
Amitious Turkey wrote:
Dr Karsun wrote:
I disagree.

This information of someones presence is for free, sure, but it's not precise information. The enemy can be, in some systems, more than a hundred AU away, I wouldn't really call that precise information.

I would gladly trade all kinds of local for removal of cloaks. I don't need to know that you'r in my system as long as I can scan your ass down with combat probes.

As long as cloaks are the only thing that doesn't have a counter - I see no reason to remove local.


It works in w-space. Actually it's one of the things that makes w-space so fun.


It works in w-space because if you have no gates on overview - need to do extra effort to get in/out (giving away you beeing there every time you want to move further, you can control the incoming whs (reducing the mass) AND more important you can't freely roam 40 systems in an hour because you need to scan, each new system is randomly linked to another so that means you can't easily "visit" the same system every night for a good raid. Added that it costs no money for the sov, upgrades, no cyno faggotry either...

should i go on why null isn't wh space and why the no local is only doable in a wh because of the restrictions it has on "acces"...

Inferno do _stuff _with _stuff _to imitate the _stuff _you could do faster with the old stuff

-stuff-

Riyal
invidious Squid
#143 - 2012-05-29 13:14:53 UTC
This is a brilliant thread and its growing faster that I can read all the replies.

Its made me realise how primitive information gathering is in eve, sensors are is usually an essential part of scifi. In games I'm reminded of sensor bubbles in homeworld, and more recently the sensor network and team Intel of the tribes games. My only concern is how this would work in cluttered hub systems from a lag perspective. I'll add more when I get home and have access to a keyboard.

In hindsight my post should have had more psssshhhh

Natsett Amuinn
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#144 - 2012-05-29 13:26:21 UTC
I didn't read all of it, did read most though. I liked it.

I'd also like a module that would send a false jump signal to hostile ships. A cloak that has to be used within 3500 km of a jump gate. It only cloaks me, but has a chance to give other ships the impression that I actually jumped.

The further from the 2000 km mark the less likely the signal works, the closer to 2000 km I get from the jump gate, the more likely that the signal works.

If I'm outside of 3500 km range of the jump gate, then I only cloak and no jump signal can be faked.


Of course, this means removing me from local if I'm cloaked.
Sosan Metron
State War Academy
Caldari State
#145 - 2012-05-29 14:51:31 UTC
Should be moved to features & Ideas forum tho, its gonna dissappear fast here under a pile of crap posts about how difficult the new inventory is or other such rubbish.
Spy 21
Doomheim
#146 - 2012-05-29 15:06:22 UTC
Approval of OP +1

Gimme all that and make space bigger while you're at it...
Bigger gates
Bigger systems (or slower ships, less range on jump drives/bridges)

Thanks for a good post.
Eve needs to evolve... Space is too small in all respects in game and it does not need be that way.

S

Obfuscation for the WIN on page 3...

Easthir Ravin
Easy Co.
#147 - 2012-05-29 15:34:58 UTC
+1

As long as this is not some ploy to get rid of Cloaking devices.

vr
East

IN THE IMORTAL WORDS OF SOCRATES:  " I drank WHAT?!"

Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#148 - 2012-05-29 15:46:19 UTC
Liike all really cool ideas, this one fails to take some things into consideration:

-The current system works ie people play eve online and live in places that has local/instant intel.

-The current system is a serious compromise, a compromise that needs to happen because a game has to be fun for the majority

-The current (compromise heavy) system evolved from "natural" forces ie CCP made it this way because doing it other ways resulted or could have resulted in less fun and less interaction.

It is "natural" for people to form big groups to control things, which is why null-sec looks like it does today. you would have to manipulate things to an incredible degree to change this.

It's basically a zero sum game, if you make the game (in null specifically) more friendly to small groups, those same mechanics will either make large groups more powerful in some way, or kill the need for large groups entirely. Lots of people don't like the big alliances, but I think many of us accept them as part of the game (some of us, like me, even enjoy being in a big group).

Living (fighting and ratting) in null, I deal with the compromises ccp had to make every day (High Sec is another such compromise, lots of us hate it, but the smarter folks will grudgingly admit that the game needs it), and no one dislikes squatters and cloaky campers more than I do (I turn lemon into lemonade though, and find ways to screw them back, even put a cyno on an armor tank navy raven as bait once...was fun :) ).

And theroy crafting is fine, but the persons putting out the theroies HAVE to take into account that things exist the way they do now for a reason. Keeping this in mind is the only way to make good changes instead of bad.
Malice Redeemer
Kenshin.
Fraternity.
#149 - 2012-05-29 16:37:48 UTC
I like these types of ideas. +1 for solutions that are not, lets remove the cloaking device, or just raging about removing local.

As long as with work I can still secure myself as I can now, unless I make mistakes. I think that's what we want, eh? To be able to hide if we are better at it then they are at finding, and vice versa.
Josef Djugashvilis
#150 - 2012-05-29 16:55:18 UTC
Hiding in Eve - why we cloak.

Because we can.

This is not a signature.

Karl Planck
Perkone
Caldari State
#151 - 2012-05-29 17:06:27 UTC
The ideas listed in the op's first few responses are genuinly great ideas for progressing the games difficulty and realism. Unfortunately, in order to do this it would, without a doubt, require the creation of EVE II.

Look at the diffuclty when anything is dramatically changed. The last time we had a major overhaul of somethign it was the scannign system, which happened years ago and was basically a game added on to REPLACE a simple mechanic. what your suggesting is much more than a replacement, but a revamp of how celestial objects give information to your client.

The dev's already have insurmountable problems when it comes to changing code. This change, despite its value, is simply too much without a new game.

I has all the eve inactivity

Garonis
Catskull
Apocalypse Now.
#152 - 2012-05-29 17:32:22 UTC
+1 for well thought out, and delivered idea!

I think this would revitalize how things are done in Eve. It would also magnify the role of Scout.
I totally support all of the OP's ideas!
FloppieTheBanjoClown
Arcana Imperii Ltd.
#153 - 2012-05-29 17:40:08 UTC
I cloak so they don't see me coming.

Founding member of the Belligerent Undesirables movement.

WCBirdman
Fat Dragon Pirate Co.
Domain Research and Mining Inst.
#154 - 2012-05-29 22:24:09 UTC
Been reading so many posts of how to make Eve better. This is the best by far.
This game has been losing my attention for a long time, mainly because of this:

"Eve's game design only rewards the biggest and most numerous. CCP needs to build in more game design that rewards a player who is smarter than the rest and attempts to be as asymmetric as possible and do more with less."

Most people are thinking of stuff which should bring in more people. They forget the fact that a lot of people are leaving Eve after they find out that 'the blob' makes everything completely pointless. Why train up that measly 2 % skill, when after all the only thing that counts is how many friends you bring.

+1 and lets keep this on the frontpage.

Misanth
RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE
#155 - 2012-05-29 22:40:18 UTC
Mag's wrote:
There are some good ideas in there, but I disagree with some. This should be in F & I though tbh. Cool


Basicly sums up my thoughts as well, but I gave him a +like for at least putting some serious effort into it. For once it's not a whine about local and/or cloak, he actually present solutions on how to replace/reshape the information. We've seen this debate for at least six-seven years, if not longer, and frankly speaking I think this is the best suggestion so far. Even tho not perfect, the core mechanics presented is a great place to start.

AFK-cloaking in a system near you.

Mallak Azaria
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#156 - 2012-05-29 22:52:11 UTC
+1

I can't find fault in your idea, because it's very solid & well thought out. This is how EVE should be.

This post was lovingly crafted by a member of the Goonwaffe Posting Cabal, proud member of the popular gay hookup site somethingawful.com, Spelling Bee, Grammar Gestapo & #1 Official Gevlon Goblin Fanclub member.

NeGaMeSH
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#157 - 2012-05-29 23:45:59 UTC
Excellent ideas! +1
Mors Sanctitatis
Death of Virtue
#158 - 2012-05-30 00:53:58 UTC
Misanth wrote:
Mag's wrote:
There are some good ideas in there, but I disagree with some. This should be in F & I though tbh. Cool


Basicly sums up my thoughts as well, but I gave him a +like for at least putting some serious effort into it. For once it's not a whine about local and/or cloak, he actually present solutions on how to replace/reshape the information. We've seen this debate for at least six-seven years, if not longer, and frankly speaking I think this is the best suggestion so far. Even tho not perfect, the core mechanics presented is a great place to start.


Thanks for the kind words.

Let me be very clear: this is simply a starting point. A basic foundation with which to generate more thought and speculation until we uncover some truly elegant game design.

Also, Misanth / Mags, you guys might know me by another character from a while back. I'll let you guess as to which one hehe.
Kimmi Chan
Tastes Like Purple
#159 - 2012-05-30 02:15:28 UTC
Sosan Metron wrote:
Should be moved to features & Ideas forum tho, its gonna dissappear fast here under a pile of crap posts about how difficult the new inventory is or other such rubbish.


Agreed. I wonder if we could just link to this post in F&I or if a Dev/Mod needs to actually move it.

"Grr Kimmi  Nerf Chans!" ~Jenn aSide

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Richard Desturned
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#160 - 2012-05-30 03:56:09 UTC
"abloobloobloo I'm not completely undetectable when cloaking please give me a crutch CCP"

npc alts have no opinions worth consideration