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Jumping on the mining bandwaggon.

Author
Garnoo
Eternity INC.
Goonswarm Federation
#21 - 2012-05-29 23:01:28 UTC
Quote:
Mining is sitting in a very fragile, bulky ship that shoots lasers and slowly fills up the hull with space rock

take cynabal, fit mining lasers - problem solved

People are going to try to ruin your day. Get together with others, ruin their day back -  EvE

Ditra Vorthran
Caldari Imports and Exports
#22 - 2012-05-29 23:03:17 UTC
Vicky Somers wrote:
So don't mine in a Hulk and don't mine alone. You sound like a pretty intelligent person, yet you fail when you say that there is no defense. Bring an orca, dock up. Bring ewar. Bring a Rokh with smartbombs. Bring amberlamps. Do something.


The problem with the solutions above is the basic assumption that it is a matter of EHP vs DPS. No matter how much EHP, either by remote rep, personal boosting, or avoidance via ECM, that isn’t the issue. It’s an issue of balancing the predator vs. prey gameplay (see my post on that topic: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1359427#post1359427) which is in reality a wide variety of gameplay changes that need to be made. That’s why I agree with you that the mining mechanics need to be changed, but simple means of defense are not a solution

Vicky Somers wrote:
See, this is the problem right there. Whenever someone comes up with a smart tactic, you people want CCP to give you some epic ship that will solve everything at the push of a button.


Why not? It worked for destroyers. :P

"Miners mine so I don't have to." ~Metal Icarus

Lin-Young Borovskova
Doomheim
#23 - 2012-05-29 23:03:54 UTC
Vicky Somers wrote:
Alavaria Fera wrote:
The most common response I've heard are buff hulk tank or CONCORD, not a whole new ship, though.

But I guess they want something like a high-sec capable rorqural?


You must not visit the suggestions forum often. They've been coming up with these god awful carrier sized, high sec capable indy ships that do everything for years. Then they got the Orca and don't use it. I'm really curious on the statistical use of an Orca. I bet half of them are used for support in WH ops or other non mining stuff.


Where is the failure when players don't use something?

I'm pretty sure you're not a failure and you fly all day long Osprey or Moas because you rocks in tha house Lol

brb

Macks Artilius
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#24 - 2012-05-29 23:05:50 UTC
Come mine in nullsec, its safer here.

I wish I was kidding.
Vicky Somers
Rusty Anchor
#25 - 2012-05-29 23:08:09 UTC
Ditra Vorthran wrote:
The problem with the solutions above is the basic assumption that it is a matter of EHP vs DPS. No matter how much EHP, either by remote rep, personal boosting, or avoidance via ECM, that isn’t the issue. It’s an issue of balancing the predator vs. prey gameplay (see my post on that topic: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1359427#post1359427) which is in reality a wide variety of gameplay changes that need to be made. That’s why I agree with you that the mining mechanics need to be changed, but simple means of defense are not a solution

Why not? It worked for destroyers. :P


Sorry I stopped reading your thread when you cried about cloaks.

Destroyers die by just looking at them.
Vicky Somers
Rusty Anchor
#26 - 2012-05-29 23:09:24 UTC
Lin-Young Borovskova wrote:
Where is the failure when players don't use something?

I'm pretty sure you're not a failure and you fly all day long Osprey or Moas because you rocks in tha house Lol


wat?
Mersault
Blue Nine Industries
#27 - 2012-05-29 23:13:24 UTC
This thread again.

As an avid reader of GD I have to ask how many times do I have to stomach the endless wining herp derp of the same topic over and over again from grandiose self important scrubs *rushing* to forums with their own predigested regurgitate of a bad meal.

I hate your thread, I hate that I posted in your thread, I hate that I cared enough to post or read and want to fight the hell out of you.

In game.





Vicky Somers
Rusty Anchor
#28 - 2012-05-29 23:16:34 UTC
Mersault wrote:
This thread again.

As an avid reader of GD I have to ask how many times do I have to stomach the endless wining herp derp of the same topic over and over again from grandiose self important scrubs *rushing* to forums with their own predigested regurgitate of a bad meal.

I hate your thread, I hate that I posted in your thread, I hate that I cared enough to post or read and want to fight the hell out of you.

In game.


I'd hate to ask but why are you mad?
Mr Sato
Bubbles Bubbles Bubbles
#29 - 2012-05-29 23:18:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Mr Sato
I dont think OP has really conducted any high-sec mining to say that this form of game-play doesnt require any attention. If you min-max your yield with perhaps more than one account you will be quite busy scanning, planning crystal swap, rock swap and to time the hauling. Everything else is just geological masturbation.

I like the suggestion as it indicate thinking outside the box, but overall the idea of planet/moon resource harvesting is that it is a passive form of gain and a scourge for every game developer. In general it should be avoided, even if the Skill system EVE seems quite acclaimed. Perhaps a better idea, if the aim is to make it more interacting, is to reduce harvest time and introduced a more time consuming survey/scan time. I believe there have been quite a lot of forum suggestions where the belts should be replaced by gravimetric sites.

Edit: seems self-pleasuring is frowned upon in this forum
Andoria Thara
Fallen Avatars
#30 - 2012-05-29 23:29:47 UTC
Vicky Somers wrote:

Moon mining is a great idea. Just like PI but with more work involved and a good risk factor.


I guess you missed the memo about them adding in ring mining (as well as new ring mining ships) for moon goo sometime in the near future?
Mersault
Blue Nine Industries
#31 - 2012-05-29 23:30:59 UTC
I am mad because there have been endless threads pointing out to high sec Hulk miners how you can reduce your viability as a target during hulkagedon.

I am mad because a hulk miner losing an untanked Hulk, empty med slots, with a tracking comp fitted and over a bn pod loss during hulkagedon spawns another thread, 7 pages long last I looked.


I am mad because people losing ships during a massive suicide-you-cos-we-can event , which happens every year and this year happens to be sponsored by the EvE bad guys means people call for changes to the game to make it better for them.

I am even madder because this whole event sponsored by them most likely furthers their own goals in consolidating their own position in this game of EvE - which they are playing and winning and everyone else whines about.

I am mad because instead of asking for changes from CCP, we don't just change what we do ourselves to counter the threat.

I am mad because people ask for CCP to change the game instead of people actually getting together and doing something in this big huge sandbox game where we can all do whatever we want to do, at any time in the EULA.

I am mad seeing folks asking for Hulk tank buffs or gank changes when people who want to mine should all band together against a single consolidated threat.

That's why I am mad.

Focktardsky Qqnen
Doomheim
#32 - 2012-05-29 23:33:10 UTC
mining in a paladin is fun Big smile
James 315
Experimental Fun Times Corp RELOADED
CODE.
#33 - 2012-05-29 23:35:16 UTC
Mersault wrote:
I am mad because there have been endless threads pointing out to high sec Hulk miners how you can reduce your viability as a target during hulkagedon.

I am mad because a hulk miner losing an untanked Hulk, empty med slots, with a tracking comp fitted and over a bn pod loss during hulkagedon spawns another thread, 7 pages long last I looked.


I am mad because people losing ships during a massive suicide-you-cos-we-can event , which happens every year and this year happens to be sponsored by the EvE bad guys means people call for changes to the game to make it better for them.

I am even madder because this whole event sponsored by them most likely furthers their own goals in consolidating their own position in this game of EvE - which they are playing and winning and everyone else whines about.

I am mad because instead of asking for changes from CCP, we don't just change what we do ourselves to counter the threat.

I am mad because people ask for CCP to change the game instead of people actually getting together and doing something in this big huge sandbox game where we can all do whatever we want to do, at any time in the EULA.

I am mad seeing folks asking for Hulk tank buffs or gank changes when people who want to mine should all band together against a single consolidated threat.

That's why I am mad.

You're right to be angry at the miners. You should join the anti-miner crusade. Put your anger to good use.
Alavaria Fera
Imperial Shipment
#34 - 2012-05-29 23:35:53 UTC
Mersault wrote:
I am mad seeing folks asking for Hulk tank buffs or gank changes when people who want to mine should all band together against a single consolidated threat.

They are though. The banding together is necessary to put up a unified front of whining and demands for hulk tank buffs or gank nerfs.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?

Mersault
Blue Nine Industries
#35 - 2012-05-29 23:40:52 UTC
Alavaria Fera wrote:
Mersault wrote:
I am mad seeing folks asking for Hulk tank buffs or gank changes when people who want to mine should all band together against a single consolidated threat.

They are though. The banding together is necessary to put up a unified front of whining and demands for hulk tank buffs or gank nerfs.


Yes indeed I just wish the energy expunged on the forums may somehow bleed into how people actually play this game :)

But after Incarna gate if there is enough herp derp on forums CCP will change the game for us right ? right ?

Halp ?
Caghji
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#36 - 2012-05-30 00:09:21 UTC
Quote:
So this got me thinking further... what kind of idiot came up with this game mechanic? Who thought it would be a good idea to implement this as the main source of materials for ships that are used in Internet space ****? It's the exact opposite of what Eve should be. Things in eve should be risky, but above that, things in eve should be exhilarating. Mining is NOT exhilarating. Well, maybe it is during Hulkageddon. If you are an idiot that is.





I like mining

I sit out at the belt with my couple of accounts and with a couple of corp mates - chilling

We chat about what ever is topical at the time - we browse the web we listen to music etcetc -

then i refine my hard day's work

then i make stuff with the minerals

then i sell on market

and make a ton of cash

however

in recent months i got involved in this PvP lark (after all i have all those billions in cash so i got to burn it on something) - so....

joined the local alliance gang roams - and guess what - typical example follows.........

we jump to a gate - hang there for 20mins waiting for the red to come through from the next system (hmmmm interesting) - he comes in - bubble up - after 2 cycles of firing he is dead - lot's of in channel jock leg slapping and hoots - then go to the next gate - wait 5 mins - kill the next one - then we get word a red gang 3 times as big as ours is coming down the pipe - so we dock up - for an hour! ......until they leave the area - hmmmmmm - rinse and repeat rinse and repeat ad nosium......hmmmmmm


.....after a few months i return to mining ......BECAUSE ITS MORE INTERESTING......!......i do have the fleet skills now to kill loan reds who want to kill my mining ships now so its not all wasted - oh and is it me or are miner's a tad more pleasant in character to hang and chat with than a lot of the PvP jocks out there? (not all ofc).........

shrugs

the important attraction of eve ofc is that as a good sandbox it has something for everyone (for example i absolutely HATE ratting - really reaaly hate it )

So u might think your little area is the best (mining for me - PvP for u) but that is just my (your) opinion -

TLDR; - stop whining
Andoria Thara
Fallen Avatars
#37 - 2012-05-30 00:28:54 UTC
I've tried explaining to people in MINING chat that you can actually "tank" your hulk rather than going for max yield. I've mentioned that you can find a dead-end system and keep an eye on local. I've mentioned that you can align and stay at 3/4 speed so you can insta-warp.

The response I get? Hulks need to be buffed, it doesn't matter how much you tank them they still get ganked, might as well go max yield, yadda yadda.

What I think would be hilarious is if they did buff hulks... by giving them an extra low slot or rig, because you know the first thing that would go in there would be another cargo mod, which of course would lower their ehp even more.
Mersault
Blue Nine Industries
#38 - 2012-05-30 00:31:20 UTC
Caghji,I absolutely salute your resolve to enjoy what you play and how you play. I hope you can organize people in mining gangs to strip mine belts in high sec and beyond if possible with more than exhumers and orca's

Because if the risk of gank matters, it is worth putting characters in other ships to counter that risk sacrificing reduced yield.

IMHO the biggest impact of hulkagedon is witnessing how an organized group of players working together can disrupt the operations of disparate individuals going out on their own.

What really annoys me is how this is positioned by people as CCP's fault, rather than people organizing and actually playing together in this game.

For me, it is the ability of groups to work together to make fundamental changes to the world of our game for good or bad which makes it what it is.
Mersault
Blue Nine Industries
#39 - 2012-05-30 00:32:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Mersault
Andoria Thara wrote:
I've tried explaining to people in MINING chat that you can actually "tank" your hulk rather than going for max yield. I've mentioned that you can find a dead-end system and keep an eye on local. I've mentioned that you can align and stay at 3/4 speed so you can insta-warp.

The response I get? Hulks need to be buffed, it doesn't matter how much you tank them they still get ganked, might as well go max yield, yadda yadda.

What I think would be hilarious is if they did buff hulks... by giving them an extra low slot or rig, because you know the first thing that would go in there would be another cargo mod, which of course would lower their ehp even more.


Quoting for truth

My Alt mines in a Hulk in high sec, it is tanked. Reasonable EHP. I remember mining with someone for a few hours, comparing fits. He berated my meta4 mining upgrade and DC, instead of two T2 . He wondered why I bothered to fit two passive resist mods and a T2 Invuln, wasting CPU on tank instead of T2 mining upgrades. Having two shield extenders and no cargo rigs made him laugh, I kept docking every two cycles to unload my Hulk.

Oh how it must be so annoying to dock all the time he said.

He lost his to a gank two weeks later, I am still flying mine. He is more annoyed.

The game doesn't need to be changed, you do. And no, I am not omnipotent, I am just a little bit harder to gank than you. Which is why you are chosen next.
Shea Valerien
House of Valerien
#40 - 2012-05-30 00:33:01 UTC
This is because almost all miners, like myself, do mining while semi-afk. I, for example, do it while I'm at work. I am paying attention about 50% of the time. Sometimes I have to walk away to a meeting I'm suddenly called to and have to leave the computer for 5-10 minutes. There's no point in "tanking" my ship when a group can come along and just gank me without me responding (I do put a bit of tank on just to keep a couple of dessies from being able to kill me before concord shows up).

When I'm home and playing actively, I don't mine. I highly doubt anybody else that is paying full attention to the game is mining either. It's boring as hell. It doesn't require attention. And there are much more profitable things to do when you're actually playing the game.

So it's not so much that miners fail, it's just that they're understanding the risks that go along with mining and accepting that there will be some losses. If the income exceeds the losses by a sufficient amount to justify the effort, then folks will do it.
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