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I really Know why Eve don't get more Players....

Author
Welsige
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#181 - 2012-05-25 11:46:39 UTC
destiny2 wrote:
Welsige wrote:
OP TL;DR;


"I want to be able to have a safe corp to farm isk 24/7 without any risk of losing anything";


There, fixed the topic.


i hear goon space is really nice this time of year.



Its nice during all times, not just a season.

[b]~ 10.058 ~

Free The Mittani[/b]

Barbelo Valentinian
Strategic Exploration and Development Corp
Silent Company
#182 - 2012-05-26 01:36:51 UTC
Grimolfr Ronuken wrote:

No, but it is relevant to whether or not it's worthwhile to have some way for rookie's to get worked into the snake pit gradually instead of thrown in head first: Here's a ship. Here's some ammo. Here's a gun. Here's how you put the gun on the ship. Here's how you fire it. Bye.


But that's precisely what I liked about EVE, what makes it refreshingly different from other MMOs (even though I also enjoy themepark MMOs, I usually have EVE on the boil as well). And anyway, the starter areas are pretty safe.

TBQH, I've found that the number one rule of surviving in EVE is: don't be an asshat. Just that can take you pretty far.

Sure, occasionally you get ganked by asshats in an asshatty fashion (happened to me, my first Dessy was destroyed in some random high sec noob-killing frenzy) but they're actually pretty rare in EVE because they're usually the ones getting ganked, scammed, etc ., etc.

For the most part, in EVE, a newbie will only get killed if:-

1) they're in the wrong place at the wrong time;
2) they're an asshat.

The first (learning what right and wrong places and times are) is part of the game, the second is part of what makes EVE actually have a community.

The long and the short of it is, nobody would deny that there can always be nice little tweaks and improvements that make a newbie's induction flow better, but you can't do too much because part of this being a sandbox is that you learn the ways of the game from other players, not from the devs.
ReiAnn
Nova-Tek
#183 - 2012-05-27 00:53:11 UTC  |  Edited by: ReiAnn
People who think CCP doesnt want to branch out and gain new subs regardless if they are pvp or pve are just plain short sighted. They want to spread out, even created fanfest forums and think groups to figure out what they can do or change. This isn't about pvp or pve. It's about a sandbox where can you have the ability to do what you want, which sadly is being ruined because too many people are whining about the safety of high sec, the lack of challenges in low and null sec, and for the extreme minority the storyline. The game isn't going to survive, because a few people with elitest personalities want it too. You have to have the right mix of everything or the game is just going to loose its 'niche'.

Additional note--

Someone posted the sub activity for the game. It's sad. The game is slowly dying and somehow I don't think goons or any other group who want to ruin the game for everyone else are going to keep the game alive or CCP staff employed. They had to layoff 120 employees last year due to drop in subs. They are hurting for staff for the CURRENT CONTENT. How are they going to improve or bring new contect if subs continue to drop. If you're happy with never getting another expansion or playing with the glitches, ruining other people's fun is great....

http://eve-offline.net/?server=tranquility
Steveir
Hagukure
#184 - 2012-05-27 02:39:54 UTC
There are a couple of things that put gamers off Eve, but I don't think PvP is really a big issue. I know of one player who rage quit after his mining ship got blown up while he was afk but that's one over three years.
Many gamers are put off by thinking they can't have fun as everyone else will be more experienced (higher level). A decent advert campaign would overcome this.
Most new players, judging from years of reading the help channel, really could do with some handholding to start with, followed by some new player public quest each around the various "profession" of Eve.
Finally, there needs to be a serious re-design of the interface to make it "accessible". I accept that there has to be switch off new interface button as many vocal Eve vets can't handle any change without repeatedly rage quiting :)

The main point is that new players are necessary for Eve to survive and grow; and making the game accessible and easy for new players does not necessarily mean dumbing down (after all the sky did not fall when learning skills were canned).
ReiAnn
Nova-Tek
#185 - 2012-05-27 17:44:47 UTC
Barbelo Valentinian wrote:
Grimolfr Ronuken wrote:

No, but it is relevant to whether or not it's worthwhile to have some way for rookie's to get worked into the snake pit gradually instead of thrown in head first: Here's a ship. Here's some ammo. Here's a gun. Here's how you put the gun on the ship. Here's how you fire it. Bye.


But that's precisely what I liked about EVE, what makes it refreshingly different from other MMOs (even though I also enjoy themepark MMOs, I usually have EVE on the boil as well). And anyway, the starter areas are pretty safe.

TBQH, I've found that the number one rule of surviving in EVE is: don't be an asshat. Just that can take you pretty far.

Sure, occasionally you get ganked by asshats in an asshatty fashion (happened to me, my first Dessy was destroyed in some random high sec noob-killing frenzy) but they're actually pretty rare in EVE because they're usually the ones getting ganked, scammed, etc ., etc.

For the most part, in EVE, a newbie will only get killed if:-

1) they're in the wrong place at the wrong time;
2) they're an asshat.

The first (learning what right and wrong places and times are) is part of the game, the second is part of what makes EVE actually have a community.

The long and the short of it is, nobody would deny that there can always be nice little tweaks and improvements that make a newbie's induction flow better, but you can't do too much because part of this being a sandbox is that you learn the ways of the game from other players, not from the devs.



Yes, by playing in the starter systems is being in the wrong place. I have seen griefer corps with offices in those systems and popping new players, which baiting and ganking in a beginner system is a bannable offense by the way. They need to make the beginner system impossible to enter after a certain amount of time.
Neftaran
Dread Guard
#186 - 2012-05-27 17:49:56 UTC
You could make safe zones all you want but it's not going to increase the player base in this game. Granted someone may not like to get 'ganked' but there are other game mechanics here that are far more off putting toward most gamers.
Alavaria Fera
Imperial Shipment
#187 - 2012-05-27 17:58:56 UTC
Welsige wrote:
destiny2 wrote:
Welsige wrote:
OP TL;DR;

"I want to be able to have a safe corp to farm isk 24/7 without any risk of losing anything";

There, fixed the topic.

i hear goon space is really nice this time of year.

Its nice during all times, not just a season.

Luv2Rat, Luv2Mine.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?

silens vesica
Corsair Cartel
#188 - 2012-05-29 16:14:49 UTC
Neftaran wrote:
You could make safe zones all you want but it's not going to increase the player base in this game. Granted someone may not like to get 'ganked' but there are other game mechanics here that are far more off putting toward most gamers.

Indeed.

EVE is full of self-starters. Self-directed folks. There is no one to pat you on the back and tell you that you've 'won.' There is no external authority to lead you by the hand, to hand you shiny badges and titles and achievements. Nope. You have to do that all by yourself.

You, the player, must chart your own course, set your own goals, decide when yo've 'won.' And whether or not you wish to *continue* winning. Many folks will burn out, reach a level of achievement, and grow disenchanted and/or bored with the game. But replacing them isn't easy. Self-starters are not easy to find in the MMO world, and the genre doesn't train people to be self-starters. It trains them to be led by the hand through an amusement park.

So... Recruitment is tough. Keeping the numbers up will always be difficult, and sooner or later, the game will reach a point where it no longer makes economic sense to maintain it. CCP has done a remarkable job so far - I anticipate they'll continue to do so as long as they possibly can. However, sooner or later, they will, inevitably, fail.

But ripping the guts out of the game, replacing the 'make your own way' ethic of the game, will not magically increase playership - the MMO universe is full of well-established theme parks, and EVE would make a remarkably poor theme park. The only result I'd anticipate from a theme park makeover would be alienation and flight by the existing players, and a dearth of new recruits. In short - it would be fatal.

Tell someone you love them today, because life is short. But scream it at them in Esperanto, because life is also terrifying and confusing.

Didn't vote? Then you voted for NulBloc

Doc Severide
Doomheim
#189 - 2012-05-29 16:41:20 UTC
Malice Redeemer wrote:
Dethbringer1 wrote:
EVE is truely a PVE game NOT a PVP game! Why else do I have to kill 4,000 battleships to replace my tengu???? True PVP games do not make you work for a week to die once. Anyone who thinks this is a PVP based game is a moron!!! Yeah my character has 50m sp. Lets go gank some miners and noob mission runner corps.... This game is about PVE and Griefing Primarily... everything else is secondary.... As long as you have a game where someone with 6 years of sp can freely kill players with 1 month of sp.... you will have a hard time recruiting new players... Oh wait they can't freely kill. They have to pay 2m first... ROTFLMFAO. I make that in 20 secs! A noob takes a week to make that lol... Seriously. I know nothing about programming but let me throw out a few suggestions. How bout making a character with 1m sp immune to players with 50m sp.... how bout making a sp system like they had in Runescape. The farther you go into low sec the bigger the sp difference can be... There is no love for noobs in eve so I think this games days are truely numbered.


What a joke, who can even understand these people. They would have just loved Shabowbane

Hey guy, don't fly it if you can't afford to lose it.

The guy is an idiot. "A character immune to a player with 50m sp" What a whiny loser....
Meolyne
Perkone
Caldari State
#190 - 2012-05-29 16:45:45 UTC
I just asked my GF what must be implemented in Eve to make her play, she just told me "Fight with avatars"
and she not mentionning Dust.
maybe it's time to create assault squads to capture in space True Power Sansha capital ships.
have a little more npc interaction (epic arc is a good start)
and not based only on : if you die, you're dead. your stuff aswell. go farm and scam.
lol
more players = more $ = more staff = better game.

Cavel Avada
Sons of the Pagan Sky
#191 - 2012-05-29 17:18:37 UTC
I'll just throw in my $.02 here at the end.

The first time I played EVE, I used a trial. I played for 2 hours. The game was beautiful even then (several years ago). I was interested. Then I got can flipped. So I quit. Not a rage quit or anything, I just didn't want to play a game where a new player immediately gets scammed. I'd be paying to keep playing after all.

I eventually came back, but only because I'd made friends who played EVE.

As I see it, the biggest problem for new players is lack of information. It's relatively safe in Highsec for beginners, but maybe we should provide a beginners guide in-game that warns them about the numerous types of scams in the game. How not to get can-flipped, how to avoid contract scams, etc.

There's plenty of ways to not die in this game, but most of them require information. I don't think a change in game mechanics is necessary, just a change in the way we inform new players.
silens vesica
Corsair Cartel
#192 - 2012-05-29 17:28:16 UTC
Cavel Avada wrote:

As I see it, the biggest problem for new players is lack of information.

Fair point.
Some of the newer tutorials do address this, but only to a limited degree. And of course, any chat channel is full of trolls and griefers and plain old misinformation.

On the other hand, there are so many ways of coming to grief that any even fairly-comprehensive education package is going to be one horse-choking wad o' info. In it self, that infodump would be a barrier to entry - who wants to spend several hours reading abuot the bad suff? They want get started flying their internetz spacey-ships.

So - Maybe an easily-accessable and well-advertised source of 'How To Not Screw-Up' available within the Help menu? Possibly even a short-but-manditory n00b tutorial that points-out the existance of that data. But really, can't see how else you might implement this.

Tell someone you love them today, because life is short. But scream it at them in Esperanto, because life is also terrifying and confusing.

Didn't vote? Then you voted for NulBloc

Apolyon I
Shadow of ISW
#193 - 2012-05-29 18:26:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Apolyon I
Dethbringer1 wrote:
EVE is truely a PVE game NOT a PVP game! Why else do I have to kill 4,000 battleships to replace my tengu???? True PVP games do not make you work for a week to die once. Anyone who thinks this is a PVP based game is a moron!!! Yeah my character has 50m sp. Lets go gank some miners and noob mission runner corps.... This game is about PVE and Griefing Primarily... everything else is secondary.... As long as you have a game where someone with 6 years of sp can freely kill players with 1 month of sp.... you will have a hard time recruiting new players... Oh wait they can't freely kill. They have to pay 2m first... ROTFLMFAO. I make that in 20 secs! A noob takes a week to make that lol... Seriously. I know nothing about programming but let me throw out a few suggestions. How bout making a character with 1m sp immune to players with 50m sp.... how bout making a sp system like they had in Runescape. The farther you go into low sec the bigger the sp difference can be... There is no love for noobs in eve so I think this games days are truely numbered.

it's no longer eve, it's theme park MMO

btw, to buy a tengu, I only need to do 1hr of shooting red cross, you're doing it wrong
Scien Inkunen
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#194 - 2012-05-29 18:29:35 UTC
Roime wrote:
Oh,

EVE is dying again, I see.



And why shoud not die? Everything dies.

Read the "Fart file" and you will understand the meaning of life !

Ana Vyr
Vyral Technologies
#195 - 2012-05-29 19:11:49 UTC
It's not just the PvP that keeps the game niche.

It's the "when you do get killed in PvP you lose all your stuff" part.

Stuff = time spent...stuff goes boom, you've wasted your time...or spent it on a 5 second rush, which seems like a waste of time in retrospect. Folks want to see character progression in MMO's...and because of EvE's wierd skill training system, you can't measure progression in time because you have no control over skill point aquisition aside form making some choices about implants and stat allocation once a year.

You CAN measure progression in stuff though. So when it goes BOOM, you've lost progress.

This is the complaint I've heard from buddies who've tried EvE...cool game but you end up losing your stuff that you spent time/effort aquiring...often violently at the hands of somebody that will do nothing but mock you for it.

Takes a certain kind of gamer to deal with that. Some folks love it. Most folks don't from what I've seen.
Apolyon I
Shadow of ISW
#196 - 2012-05-29 19:59:30 UTC
Asuka Solo wrote:
I agree.

Add new non-PvP space, or reduce empire to non PvP by eliminating suicide ganking in empire.

Low sec, whs and null can retain their "we live to blow stuff up" lifestyle

Expand on WiS gameplay to allow social areas and pvp areas.

If all you wanna do is blow stuff up, Battlefield 3 is that way ->

fortunately they don't listen to you, so wow is that way ------>>
Mallak Azaria
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#197 - 2012-05-29 20:24:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Mallak Azaria
Dethbringer1 wrote:
EVE is truely a PVE game NOT a PVP game! Why else do I have to kill 4,000 battleships to replace my tengu???? True PVP games do not make you work for a week to die once. Anyone who thinks this is a PVP based game is a moron!!! Yeah my character has 50m sp. Lets go gank some miners and noob mission runner corps.... This game is about PVE and Griefing Primarily... everything else is secondary.... As long as you have a game where someone with 6 years of sp can freely kill players with 1 month of sp.... you will have a hard time recruiting new players... Oh wait they can't freely kill. They have to pay 2m first... ROTFLMFAO. I make that in 20 secs! A noob takes a week to make that lol... Seriously. I know nothing about programming but let me throw out a few suggestions. How bout making a character with 1m sp immune to players with 50m sp.... how bout making a sp system like they had in Runescape. The farther you go into low sec the bigger the sp difference can be... There is no love for noobs in eve so I think this games days are truely numbered.


Worst post ever. You clearly have an extremely limited understanding of how this game works.

If you have to grind battleships for a week to die in PvP once, you're doing something awfully wrong. I did notice though that later in your post you state that you make 2mil in 20 seconds. By this logic, you should easily be able to lose many Tengus per week at a rate of 360mil per hour.

This post was lovingly crafted by a member of the Goonwaffe Posting Cabal, proud member of the popular gay hookup site somethingawful.com, Spelling Bee, Grammar Gestapo & #1 Official Gevlon Goblin Fanclub member.

Quebber
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#198 - 2012-05-29 20:43:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Quebber
Nice post but I am happy to say completely wrong.

Lately a new mod for arma came out called Dayz you may have heard of it, the developer tried to get publishers to support the mod, his ideas of perma death risk and paranoia he actually calls it "anti-gaming" publishers and devs thought he was crazy, no one will play a game like that, 7* the amount of Arma II have been sold in the last 2 weeks than in its entire run since 2009.

You can die and loose everything, it is only alpha and it is a better game than 99% of the mmorpgs and games that have come out in the last three years.

What people want is not usually what they need.
Urgg Boolean
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#199 - 2012-05-29 21:38:47 UTC
First of all: we have a CEO that plays EvE? Interesting, cuz Hillmar sure doesn't play ...

Second and more: I see the argument the OP is making and have a few comments. I am involved with a wide cirle of gaming friends. We do everything from Team Fortress II to Perpetuum to Black Prophecy, Jump Gate [Classic] when it was around, and even TOR. Two of us, in a circle of about 30 gamers, play EvE. Six of us are tight and often play in the same room.

When we say EvE is a sandbox, the general gaming public hears "EvE attracts greifers". Many who are not EvE players see it as "griefer central". Griefers have been weeded out of almost every other MMO because to sell tickets, you need an "pleasant" environment in terms of group/personal dynamics. This perception, real or otherwise, limits subs.

Many hardcore PvPers don't like EvE's style of PvP. This is no insult, it's a factor of popularity and choices. Some of the best PvPers I know state that EvE is "not real PvP". They quote the Blob vs Blob thing. We say the death penalty gives PvP some meaning; they say it forces them to grind PvE to pay for PvP. EvE is simply not attractive to a lot of existing PvPers who prefer the PvP style and rules of more main stream games. This limits subs.

CCP's reputation for bungling. This is only reinforced at times like these... Everybody I know who does not already play EvE has nothing good to say about CCP as a company. Maybe DUST will change that. As it is right now, this limits subs.

Shared PvE and PvP environment. This one seems to be closer to what the OP was talking about. And I must agree. I think the sandbox can be maintained even though there are areas that prevent non-consensual PvP. As an example, Perpetuum is thought of as a sandbox, and they have distinct PvP and PvE areas. It's workable, except as soon as anyone says "non-consensual", the flame wars ignite, followed by making a voodoo doll of me and sticking pins in where my liver should be. IMHO, this is the biggest hitter that prevents EvE from having mass appeal. Someone will retort with, "Well then EvE is not for them" and "They should pick a different game and leave us alone". Guess what: they already did. This limits subs.

Last thing I want to say: my experiences on SiSi have proven that EvE is fantasic and vast PvE environment. I've been all over the universe, and seen a lot of stuff I will never get to see in the production environment. Why/how? Because non-consensual PvP is not allowed on SiSI - it's got something to do with griefing the testers. So here we have a universe that would be easily marketable to an array of PvEers, meaning profits for CCP, if it didn't have open PvP in at least some areas.

Ain't gonna happen, right? With so many obvious marketing factors adding up against EvE as a viral profit making machine, is it any wonder that CCP is giving primary focus to other games with larger mass appeal, albeit, different customer demographics?
Cpt Roghie
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#200 - 2012-05-29 21:40:19 UTC
Was I the only one that really couldnt be bothered to read past the first sentence since i've probably read the rest in 9x other threads?

This could be fun.