These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE General Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

The Future of PVE
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Vera Algaert
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#21 - 2012-05-28 20:22:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Vera Algaert
Darth Tickles wrote:
Aruken Marr wrote:
PVE is my money maker. I make isk to PVP. I would very much like it if CCP went and re-imagined the PVE part of the game. At the moment for me it's just a dull grind for isk/sec status, nothing more. If they added an element of variation and unpredictability it'd be a lot more bearable and hopefully fun. Please make PVE fun CCP, it gets a bit repetitive once youve ran missions/sites a few dozen times...


Ya, it is utterly horrible. As long as they maintain risk/reward balances, everybody wins from better pve. Better pve means more people logged in and in space. The more people logged in and in space, the better the game for everyone.

Creating interesting, dynamic, and balanced pve is by far one of the best ways ccp could spend resources to improve eve as a whole, if not the actual best.

the rage if CCP implemented such proposals would be incredible.

people would be furious that their efficiency at grinding went way down (due to increased variation) and they now have to spend more time on an activity that is still unfun to them.

WoW players asked extremely vocally for more challenging and interesting dungeons - and when they got dungeons that couldn't be completed in 20 minutes and required some basic tactics & cooperation they punished Blizzard harshly for it.

It's understandable that bad players were unhappy but why did even the hardcore players cry for nerfs?
because a dungeon (as opposed to raiding) is a means to gear up for the "real" game (raiding) and as such a chore that people want to get done with asap.

The same holds true for PvE in EVE for the type of person Aruken describes - a chore will always remain a chore no matter how you dress it up and the game developer making you less efficient at getting done with it only pisses you off.

.
Darth Tickles
Doomheim
#22 - 2012-05-28 20:26:18 UTC
Vera Algaert wrote:
the rage if CCP implemented such proposals would be incredible.


Who said they were exclusive?

Just make dynamic group activities pay out more. As long as you can't make more in hisec than you can lowsec/nullsec, nobody actually cares how much more you can make running dynamic group sites.

If you wanna be a loner or don't have the time to group up, then your same old content is right there.
Bunnie Hop
Bunny Knights
#23 - 2012-05-28 20:26:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Bunnie Hop
Vera Algaert wrote:
Darth Tickles wrote:
Aruken Marr wrote:
PVE is my money maker. I make isk to PVP. I would very much like it if CCP went and re-imagined the PVE part of the game. At the moment for me it's just a dull grind for isk/sec status, nothing more. If they added an element of variation and unpredictability it'd be a lot more bearable and hopefully fun. Please make PVE fun CCP, it gets a bit repetitive once youve ran missions/sites a few dozen times...


Ya, it is utterly horrible. As long as they maintain risk/reward balances, everybody wins from better pve. Better pve means more people logged in and in space. The more people logged in and in space, the better the game for everyone.

Creating interesting, dynamic, and balanced pve is by far one of the best ways ccp could spend resources to improve eve as a whole, if not the actual best.

the rage if CCP implemented such proposals would be incredible.

people would be furious that their efficiency at grinding went way down (due to increased variation) and they now have to spend more time on an activity that is still unfun to them.

WoW players asked extremely vocally for more challenging and interesting dungeons - and when they got dungeons that couldn't be completed in 20 minutes and required some basic tactics & cooperation they punished Blizzard harshly for it.


I am sure that many would. I never cared for ISK/Hour nonsense. I can fly ships that are much more efficient but I always end up in my Nighthawk because I love it, though a Tengu can surely do things faster. You are correct though, so many people look at things as a grind and efficiency. I look at it though as is it fun, whether it takes an hour or three hours is academic really.
MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
#24 - 2012-05-28 20:32:15 UTC  |  Edited by: MeBiatch
Cutter Isaacson wrote:
EVE is a PVP game, not Minecraft single player on easy mode in space. The PVP should, and always will, take priority with the PVE content being supplemental. And lets face it, if you play EVE solely for its PVE content then you really should go find another game to play, because PVE in EVE has always been a bit sucky. I should also say that I am a Carebear who has in the past been a pvp'er and is now trying to get back in to it, mostly because I realised that PVE is a waste of £10 a month.



i thought eve was a sandbox and in it you can do what you like?

i think there is a civil war going on between the casual majority that is eve players and the minority hard core players...

tbh there should be equal production towards both styles...

There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... CCP Goliath wrote:

Ugh ti-di pooping makes me sad.
Aruken Marr
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#25 - 2012-05-28 20:35:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Aruken Marr
Vera Algaert wrote:

the rage if CCP implemented such proposals would be incredible.

people would be furious that their efficiency at grinding went way down (due to increased variation) and they now have to spend more time on an activity that is still unfun to them.

WoW players asked extremely vocally for more challenging and interesting dungeons - and when they got dungeons that couldn't be completed in 20 minutes and required some basic tactics & cooperation they punished Blizzard harshly for it.

It's understandable that bad players were unhappy but why did even the hardcore players cry for nerfs?
because a dungeon (as opposed to raiding) is a means to gear up for the "real" game (raiding) and as such a chore that people want to get done with asap.

The same holds true for PvE in EVE for the type of person Aruken describes - a chore will always remain a chore no matter how you dress it up and the game developer making you less efficient at getting done with it only pisses you off.


I wouldn't mind a hit to efficiency if the process was more fun. Let's face it if something's a less of a chore it makes the whole experience a lot better. But who's to say they wouldnt be able to maintain income and still increase enjoyability of PVE?

edit: I agree with Darth's previous post upon the effects a change would make. I hear it a lot that people only play for pvp the other 90% is just like a job to keep up with the fun.

If CCP could increase the actual playability of the money making aspects of their game, more people would be online, active and well... exposed.
Xorv
Questionable Acquisitions
#26 - 2012-05-28 20:39:36 UTC
Gul'gotha Derv'ash wrote:

edit: and this ISN"T a PvP game. This is a sandbox. It is designed to let people decide for themselves what they want to do inside the box. CCP has been moving farther and farther away from the true sandbox aspect and listened too much to what the CSM says. That is why you see a constant push for people to PvP and why CCP is moving the entire game in that direction, and has been for some time.


There really is no excuse anymore for making such blatant ignorant comments in regard to the Sandbox nature of EVE, it's been explained over and over on these forums.

Yes it is for every player to decide for themselves what they want to do inside the sandbox... every player!

This does not mean that every player actually gets to do what they want inside the sandbox. ...Why?

Because the sandbox is shared, it isn't a single player sandbox it's an MMORPG where player interaction and competition is woven throughout the game world. It doesn't matter what you do, in some way even if very subtle it will effect other players in the Sandbox. This is why EVE is a PvP game, it's the inevitable outcome of being a Massively Multiplayer Sandbox built around warfare and competition.
YuuKnow
The Scope
#27 - 2012-05-28 20:41:28 UTC
I would like to see Lvl 4 missions become more difficult in that NPC AI are more like the Sleep AI. Smarter and tougher.

yk
Sir John Halsey
#28 - 2012-05-28 20:50:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Sir John Halsey
Cutter Isaacson wrote:
EVE is a PVP game, not Minecraft single player on easy mode in space. The PVP should, and always will, take priority with the PVE content being supplemental. And lets face it, if you play EVE solely for its PVE content then you really should go find another game to play, because PVE in EVE has always been a bit sucky. I should also say that I am a Carebear who has in the past been a pvp'er and is now trying to get back in to it, mostly because I realised that PVE is a waste of £10 a month.



Actually if you want PvP you should play BSGO from BP (yea i know *** money grabbers).
Last time i played they only had some light PVE content and if you went out of the three noob sectors everything was PvP.
PvP night and day ... every hour you can kill at least 15 people :) and more than that, you really need skills to fly one of their interceptors :)

I have no idea how it is now .. i didn't play it after i started EVE but at that point, with all their submarine mechanics that was the most intensive PvP game i played.

I decided to play EVE because of this: http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/
The choices you have in EVE can keep someone busy for a long long time.

For now i'm actually happy with PVE and trying to stay alive (which it doesn't happen as i die every time i go in low sec :P) but the time to join RvB will eventually come at some point.
Oberine Noriepa
#29 - 2012-05-28 21:13:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Oberine Noriepa
Neftaran wrote:
The PvE aspect of this game is utterly horrible.

Agreed. It needs an overhaul. It should be made more challenging and interesting, and it would be great if it went into EVE's backstory a lot more in ways that go beyond reading walls of text. It would be really cool if avatar gameplay could somehow be tied into it. Exploring stations, boarding ships, etc. It could be made into something really unique, I think. There's a L1 mission where you fly into a hollowed out asteroid to blow up a space station. I would love to see more stuff like that, but on a level where you actually have to explore the environment to find what you're looking for. Maybe those types of changes could be implemented into the epic arcs? Maybe we could get new arcs?

I would really like to see more content like incursions. In Guild Wars 2, the side-quest content is all done through a live event system that encourages cooperation of other players as well as competition. I would love to see something like that in EVE. Maybe a feature like that could become so diverse that it ends up replacing the current mission system altogether? It could encourage more people to play together and possibly against each other, which is what EVE is and always should be about. There's a lot of potential to flesh out the EVE universe with a system like that. CCP is sitting on a wealth of backstory that isn't represented too well, if at all, in the game.

∃
Darth Tickles
Doomheim
#30 - 2012-05-28 21:16:59 UTC
Oberine Noriepa wrote:
It could encourage more people to play together and possibly against each other, which is what EVE is and always should be about. There's a lot of potential to flesh out the backstory here with a system like that. CCP is sitting on a wealth of backstory that isn't represented too well, if at all, in the game.


Yup. You should graduate from the learning process right into cooperative/competitive pve with varying degrees of risk and reward, allowing you to get a feel for the larger game while still in hisec. Then it's a natural transition from that out into low, null, or whs, if and when you want.
Rico Minali
Sons Of 0din
Commonwealth Vanguard
#31 - 2012-05-28 21:17:35 UTC
Gul'gotha Derv'ash wrote:
Basically the future for PvE is bleak. Why? The CSM is controlled by the PvP players that have been pushing their own agenda for years. They don't like having to leave the security of their Sov to rat or run missions so they ***** and moan to get more and more taken from high and put into null sec.

There in lies the biggest problem though. There is supposed to be a risk vs reward system in place. You risk being attacked at any moment in low/null sec so your reward should be high, right? Well in my experience the Sov space of alliances is MUCH safer than high sec. You run little to no risk of being killed by another player. If for some reason you do have someone that isn't friendly pop into your system you knew he was coming 10 minutes before from intel channels.

Most people will try to say that it takes a lot of effort to keep a sov system safe, but that is incorrect. It takes a lot of people in an alliance to keep Sov safe. If you have numbers, and can field a fleet you will rarely if ever find yourself needing to do so to defend your space.


The risk needs put back into Null to justify the rewards, i.e. remove local from null and leave it in low/high. Remove gate fire so you can't see when someone pops into your gate camps, etc, etc. That would be a step in the right direction.




edit: and this ISN"T a PvP game. This is a sandbox. It is designed to let people decide for themselves what they want to do inside the box. CCP has been moving farther and farther away from the true sandbox aspect and listened too much to what the CSM says. That is why you see a constant push for people to PvP and why CCP is moving the entire game in that direction, and has been for some time.


No idea where you got your knowledge about nullsec and sov gameplay but I must say, I have never heard such a complete load of utter stupidity in all my time in Eve.

Trust me, I almost know what I'm doing.
Talon SilverHawk
Patria o Muerte
#32 - 2012-05-28 21:21:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Talon SilverHawk
You know, to think I used to complain about the quality and quantity of Lvl4 loot. Oh that golden age those halcyon days Cry

Tal
Dyvim Slorm
Coven of the Morrigan
#33 - 2012-05-28 21:29:28 UTC
I'd certainly like to see a greater variety of missions ans some more epic arcs. Personally I'd sell that bloody damsel to the Amarrian slave trader I found Big smile
Baldrik DeLeNoir
Beltane Legion
#34 - 2012-05-28 21:52:29 UTC
Vaju Enki wrote:
There's no such thing as PvE in EvE Online, everything you in this game is a form of PvP competition.



yeh,yeh we've heard it before blah blah blah, everythings PVP so there. This argument is technically correct but also so simplistic as to be laughable.

Let's be honest, there's a lot of difference between using the markets and trying to avoid becoming "prey" ( Which I personally enjoyed) and wanting to spend all your time shooting the arse of some other player.
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#35 - 2012-05-28 22:09:28 UTC
EVE's PvE needs to be reworked from scratch. It would disgrace an 80's Amiga game.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#36 - 2012-05-28 22:10:57 UTC
Baldrik DeLeNoir wrote:
Vaju Enki wrote:
There's no such thing as PvE in EvE Online, everything you in this game is a form of PvP competition.



yeh,yeh we've heard it before blah blah blah, everythings PVP so there. This argument is technically correct


...which is the best kind of correct

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Baldrik DeLeNoir
Beltane Legion
#37 - 2012-05-28 22:23:23 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
Baldrik DeLeNoir wrote:
Vaju Enki wrote:
There's no such thing as PvE in EvE Online, everything you in this game is a form of PvP competition.



yeh,yeh we've heard it before blah blah blah, everythings PVP so there. This argument is technically correct


...which is the best kind of correct



yes, but........ yeh O.K. you win Blink
Ocih
Space Mermaids
#38 - 2012-05-28 22:26:40 UTC
CCP like to talk out of both sides of their mouth. We seem to be forgetting they just nerfed the only fleet based PvE in the game because too many people were doing it. (Incursions)

I really would hate to be a Dev for this game. I don't envy them. It's the only game on the entire internet that is designed to not be played. The more we do it, the more they nerf it.
Knot'Kul Sun
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#39 - 2012-05-28 22:28:11 UTC
Take away Mission names, redo the entire set of missions so that its a randomly generated field/complex/grid with 1-5 gates, even race of enemies are randomized, the Lvl will determine the size and frequency of evil peeps.

Most people deny missions to kill the 4 main races,

if you want people to get involved into PVP more, first get them involved with other people.

Make Missions so ungodly hard for the same level of reward, (sans maybe L1 and L2) that people have no choice but to gang together and socialize, therefor increasing the likelyhood they will see PVP rather than sitting in an NPC corp or farming millions in L4's solo.

Moving L4's to lowsec IMO will only serve to make the next argument "move L3's to lowsec." Most people wont follow the missions, everyone I've known or talked to didnt follow the L5's, they simply stopped farming them for highsec instances.

most people IMO will probably resign themselves to missioning L3's in drakes
Aruken Marr
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#40 - 2012-05-28 22:31:08 UTC
Ocih wrote:
CCP like to talk out of both sides of their mouth. We seem to be forgetting they just nerfed the only fleet based PvE in the game because too many people were doing it. (Incursions)

I really would hate to be a Dev for this game. I don't envy them. It's the only game on the entire internet that is designed to not be played. The more we do it, the more they nerf it.


I think the issue was with the whole skewed risk vs reward thing. The fact that people were running hisec alts for incursions to earn isk for pvp out in null was a bit of an issue. Nothing wrong with incursions its just their payout was way too high for hisec when compared to the income out in null.