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CAPACITOR RECHARGE DOESN'T WORK PROPERLY
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GFL Kalor
Shadow Council
#1 - 2012-05-27 14:33:52 UTC
Thank you for your bugreport titled: CAPACITOR RECHARGE DOESN'T WORK PROPERLY

The problem you have described is an intended game feature or function, and not a bug.

Thank you for your report. This is happening because of how cap recharge varies with your capacitor level, and that your fitting is on the margins of cap stability. The fitting window compares your capacitor usage with your peak capacitor recharge ability. This peak recharge is only achieved when your capacitor level is in a very narrow band. If your capacitor drops below this level, your capacitor recharge reduces significantly. Because you are on the very margins of cap stability, you would have to maintain yourself right at the peak recharge rate to remain stable. What will be happening is that your modules are taking their capacitor usage all together in a big chunk, which is tipping you below the peak recharge rate, resulting in the depletion of your capacitor. To manage capacitor usage on this margin of stability, you will need to stagger your modules and manage their cycling such that you do not fall below peak capacitor recharge. This wiki article may be of assistance: http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Capacitor_recharge_rate

Here is a link to update your bug report: https://bugs.eveonline.com/mybugreports.asp?Action=View&ID=136833

The BugHunter Team


This is the answer you get when you are running a cap stable logi that really isn't cap stable due to game features. Features, features and more features. If I compare this to the voltage regulator on my car, my voltage regulator maintains my charging system at 13.8 volts. under max load this drops to maybe 9 volts for a fraction of second, then the regulator detects the decrease and puts out the maximum power to recover the system until it is again fully charged. Then it resumes its 13.8 management of the system. But no, this is not how it works on your ship unless you are on the high end of cap stability.

P.S. I vary the times on my reppers and it still sucks the cap dry in less than 2 minutes, so your explanation doesn't hold water. I even linked my fit so you could see for yourself and this is the so called answer you come up with. The wiki page is even more garbage. Fix the problem, not make excuses and call it a feature.
Danika Princip
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#2 - 2012-05-27 14:41:18 UTC
GFL Kalor wrote:
Thank you for your bugreport titled: CAPACITOR RECHARGE DOESN'T WORK PROPERLY

The problem you have described is an intended game feature or function, and not a bug.

Thank you for your report. This is happening because of how cap recharge varies with your capacitor level, and that your fitting is on the margins of cap stability. The fitting window compares your capacitor usage with your peak capacitor recharge ability. This peak recharge is only achieved when your capacitor level is in a very narrow band. If your capacitor drops below this level, your capacitor recharge reduces significantly. Because you are on the very margins of cap stability, you would have to maintain yourself right at the peak recharge rate to remain stable. What will be happening is that your modules are taking their capacitor usage all together in a big chunk, which is tipping you below the peak recharge rate, resulting in the depletion of your capacitor. To manage capacitor usage on this margin of stability, you will need to stagger your modules and manage their cycling such that you do not fall below peak capacitor recharge. This wiki article may be of assistance: http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Capacitor_recharge_rate

Here is a link to update your bug report: https://bugs.eveonline.com/mybugreports.asp?Action=View&ID=136833

The BugHunter Team


This is the answer you get when you are running a cap stable logi that really isn't cap stable due to game features. Features, features and more features. If I compare this to the voltage regulator on my car, my voltage regulator maintains my charging system at 13.8 volts. under max load this drops to maybe 9 volts for a fraction of second, then the regulator detects the decrease and puts out the maximum power to recover the system until it is again fully charged. Then it resumes its 13.8 management of the system. But no, this is not how it works on your ship unless you are on the high end of cap stability.

P.S. I vary the times on my reppers and it still sucks the cap dry in less than 2 minutes, so your explanation doesn't hold water. I even linked my fit so you could see for yourself and this is the so called answer you come up with. The wiki page is even more garbage. Fix the problem, not make excuses and call it a feature.


You should probably learn what peak recharge actually means.

Maintain your cap around the 35% mark, that's peak recharge.

Failing that, buy a 1% cap implant and plug it in.

Or, use PYFA/EFT to figure it out, the in game tool isn't as good.
Simi Kusoni
HelloKittyFanclub
#3 - 2012-05-27 15:04:05 UTC
INB4 OP complains in game tool isn't as good as EFT.

[center]"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings"  -MXZF[/center]
mxzf
Shovel Bros
#4 - 2012-05-27 15:19:34 UTC
The reason you got that response is that it is a feature. What's happening is that you're barely cap stable and your modules are tipping you over the breaking point. How are you determining if you should be cap stable or not? Either you're barely cap-stable and the module cycles are pushing you over the edge or you're using a fit that you read would be cap-stable and your skills aren't good enough. Load up EFT and plug in your fit with your skills and get it more than 30-35% stable and you should be ok.

Also, posting Dev/GM/etc correspondence is against the forum rules, expect it to be taken down if/when a mod notices your post.
Linna Excel
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#5 - 2012-05-27 15:28:24 UTC
Real life capacitors charge based on the rate of how full they are. Google it.

I can has blogging skills!
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
#6 - 2012-05-27 15:34:53 UTC
GFL Kalor wrote:

This is the answer you get when you are running a cap stable logi that really isn't cap stable due to game features. Features, features and more features. If I compare this to the voltage regulator on my car, my voltage regulator maintains my charging system at 13.8 volts. under max load this drops to maybe 9 volts for a fraction of second, then the regulator detects the decrease and puts out the maximum power to recover the system until it is again fully charged. Then it resumes its 13.8 management of the system. But no, this is not how it works on your ship unless you are on the high end of cap stability.

P.S. I vary the times on my reppers and it still sucks the cap dry in less than 2 minutes, so your explanation doesn't hold water. I even linked my fit so you could see for yourself and this is the so called answer you come up with. The wiki page is even more garbage. Fix the problem, not make excuses and call it a feature.


lol....

Even voltage regulators have maximum ratings. They can regulate only so much voltage, they can only output so much power before they malfunction. Guess what, the EFT stats show you the MAXIMUM capacitor recharge rate, given optimal conditions.

That's hardly an OMG, the sky is falling thing to complain about. The capacitor recharge algorithm has been thoroughly vetted, and while it might be surprising to you, you only need to educate yourself to become knowledgeable!!!

http://wiki.eveuniversity.org/Capacitor_Recharge_Rate

Each mod shows how much raw cap they take to activate... and your ship shows how much raw cap it has. If activating a module takes more than a few percentage of your cap, know that it potentially cause cap stability issues. Realize, that if you have several of these modules, you need to learn to manage your cap, such that you don't reduce it too much...

EFT or whatever often shows the percentage level at which you're cap stable. If you're stable at 60+%, then you're solidly cap stable. If you're stable around 40%, realize you're toeing the line on your ship's maximum output, and you need to be very weary of cap management.
Trollin
Perkone
Caldari State
#7 - 2012-05-27 16:21:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Trollin
your ship is not your car, comparisons of internet spaceships to real life phenomenon are irrelevant

also, jumpgates, warp drive, and celestials that do not orbit dont exist either.

We are our own worst enemy.
Thutmose I
Rattium Incorporated
#8 - 2012-05-27 18:49:14 UTC
peak recharge is ~29.29%
Sobaan Tali
Caldari Quick Reaction Force
#9 - 2012-05-27 21:45:10 UTC
9 years running and this is all suddenly new how? If this seriously bothers you, might I recommend the game SPAZ. It's a much simpler and humorous game and doesn't require you to learn a whole lot. Although it does have something like cap called reactors but luckily doesn't have this "obviously flawed" capacitor system.

"Tomahawks?"

"----in' A, right?"

"Trouble is, those things cost like a million and a half each."

"----, you pay me half that and I'll hump in some c4 and blow the ---- out of it my own damn self."
Zalasastra
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#10 - 2012-05-28 03:53:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Zalasastra
after using the tools and running into these situations myself i have come to the conclusion that all the tools take the cap usage of a module and divide it by duration to get a cap/sec usage of a module, this yields a smooth continuous draw which allows easy calculation of the stability point.

while in the game modules draw the entirety of their cap at the very beginning of a cycle making it a series of pulses of draw.

if you're supposedly stable at 33-35% cap, smooth draw would never go below the stability point, pulses of draw can when not staggered appropriately.

GFL Kalor wrote:

P.S. I vary the times on my reppers and it still sucks the cap dry in less than 2 minutes, so your explanation doesn't hold water. I even linked my fit so you could see for yourself and this is the so called answer you come up with. The wiki page is even more garbage. Fix the problem, not make excuses and call it a feature.

as for this bit - i doubt all of your modules have the same cycle time so sometimes your cycles overlap more than others and is somewhat akin to constructive interference in a unipolar wave.

P.S. if you want a more accurate tool then make one that assumes pulse draw, calculates out the cycles repeatedly and factors that against a continuous recharge rate that changes based on where the modules' cycles put you at cap %.
Sakari Orisi
Doomheim
#11 - 2012-05-28 07:47:30 UTC
Zalasastra wrote:
after using the tools and running into these situations myself i have come to the conclusion that all the tools take the cap usage of a module and divide it by duration to get a cap/sec usage of a module, this yields a smooth continuous draw which allows easy calculation of the stability point.

while in the game modules draw the entirety of their cap at the very beginning of a cycle making it a series of pulses of draw.

if you're supposedly stable at 33-35% cap, smooth draw would never go below the stability point, pulses of draw can when not staggered appropriately.

GFL Kalor wrote:

P.S. I vary the times on my reppers and it still sucks the cap dry in less than 2 minutes, so your explanation doesn't hold water. I even linked my fit so you could see for yourself and this is the so called answer you come up with. The wiki page is even more garbage. Fix the problem, not make excuses and call it a feature.

as for this bit - i doubt all of your modules have the same cycle time so sometimes your cycles overlap more than others and is somewhat akin to constructive interference in a unipolar wave.

P.S. if you want a more accurate tool then make one that assumes pulse draw, calculates out the cycles repeatedly and factors that against a continuous recharge rate that changes based on where the modules' cycles put you at cap %.

pyfa does this.

The evefit project Pyfa thread Phobos thread
Im Super Gay
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#12 - 2012-05-28 13:17:04 UTC
Linna Excel wrote:
Real life capacitors charge based on the rate of how full they are. Google it.

Real life capacitors also have peak recharge at 0%.
Simi Kusoni
HelloKittyFanclub
#13 - 2012-05-28 13:26:46 UTC
Im Super Gay wrote:
Linna Excel wrote:
Real life capacitors charge based on the rate of how full they are. Google it.

Real life capacitors also have peak recharge at 0%.

Real life cars also don't have shield boosters.

Moral of story: Eve is a game and comparing an internet space ship to his car was a little bit of a silly argument.

[center]"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings"  -MXZF[/center]
Jackal Datapaw
Doomheim
#14 - 2012-05-28 13:41:12 UTC
Sad part is while we are talking about capacitors, in reality we are actually talking about the engine, when something means cap stable, it just means that the amount of power being drawn off the cap is the same amount of energy that the engine is putting into the cap, just cause you have a bigger cap doesn't mean it recharges faster, as an engine can only produce so much energy at once.

This is the same with a car's alternator, you can have the biggest fing battery in the world, but if your electronics are drawing off more power then the alternator can put in, then your car still basically dies.


However, thats how non-game mechanics work, this is a game, you all go back to what you were doing, sorry to have disturbed you all.

commonly suggest cloaking and local ideas

Operation Stink-eye
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#15 - 2012-05-28 20:45:51 UTC
Zalasastra wrote:
after using the tools and running into these situations myself i have come to the conclusion that all the tools take the cap usage of a module and divide it by duration to get a cap/sec usage of a module, this yields a smooth continuous draw which allows easy calculation of the stability point.

while in the game modules draw the entirety of their cap at the very beginning of a cycle making it a series of pulses of draw.

if you're supposedly stable at 33-35% cap, smooth draw would never go below the stability point, pulses of draw can when not staggered appropriately.

GFL Kalor wrote:

P.S. I vary the times on my reppers and it still sucks the cap dry in less than 2 minutes, so your explanation doesn't hold water. I even linked my fit so you could see for yourself and this is the so called answer you come up with. The wiki page is even more garbage. Fix the problem, not make excuses and call it a feature.

as for this bit - i doubt all of your modules have the same cycle time so sometimes your cycles overlap more than others and is somewhat akin to constructive interference in a unipolar wave.

P.S. if you want a more accurate tool then make one that assumes pulse draw, calculates out the cycles repeatedly and factors that against a continuous recharge rate that changes based on where the modules' cycles put you at cap %.


Knowledge was dropped.