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Drake changes from CSM minutes.

Author
drdxie
#301 - 2012-02-27 01:29:03 UTC
So when they nerf the drake to put it more inline with other races.. will it get a bigger drone bay and more bandwidth ???

Caldari Loving needed.. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1608277&#post1608277

Liam Mirren
#302 - 2012-02-27 02:07:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Liam Mirren
drdxie wrote:
So when they nerf the drake to put it more inline with other races.. will it get a bigger drone bay and more bandwidth ???


It can get the same bay as the Cane :P

Excellence is not a skill, it's an attitude.

Soporo
#303 - 2012-02-27 03:47:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Soporo
double post

Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats. - H.L. Mencken

Soporo
#304 - 2012-02-27 03:50:29 UTC
Soporo wrote:
They ought to be looking at the freekin Daredevil, not the Drake.

Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats. - H.L. Mencken

Mike Whiite
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#305 - 2012-02-27 13:42:23 UTC
Misanthra wrote:
Mike Whiite wrote:
Let missiles run a simulair tree to guns



what would this fix?

Technical issue....your standard issue drake fires 1 ammo primarily. CN scourge. While it may be heresy, CN scourge fires almost jsut as well from a malkuth HML as it does from a t2 launcher. ROF obvioulsy different but its not omfg end of the world difference imo. Coming up the ranks...a malkuth drake put some dents in peoples ride almost as good as I did when t2, spec 4, all that happy horsecrap.



Not realy unless you'll buy that Malkuth to safe the 700.000 ISK a launcher it will mean you have Heavy missiles on lvl 4 or lower and that is a damage bonus.

RoF for missiles is a damage bonus as well within the missiles range, not to mention the RoF of a T2 is already faster than of that Malkuth.

breaking it down to just the launchers and the difference between skills you have when opperating the T2 or Malkuth.

-Malkuth heavy with caldari navy Trauma:

CNT Missile 172 kin damage
Heavy missile launcher 4

single shot damage 172 + 20% (heavey missile launcher 4) = 34.4 = 206.4 a shot every 14 seconds x 7 launchers on your Drake is a volley damage of 1444,1/14 = 103.15 damage a second.

T2 HML with Caldari navy trauma:
CNT Missile 172 Kin damage
Heavy missile launcher 5
Heavy Missile launcher Sepcialisation 4 (rather short learning time when you start with specialisation)

Single shot Damage 172 + 25% (heavey missile launcher 5) = 43 = 215 a shot every 11,04 seconds x 7 launchers on your Drake is a volley damage of 1505/11,04 = 136,32 damage a second.

Right after the 3th Malkuth volley the T2 fires its 4th Volley, then the loading capacity of a malthuth is lower then that of a T2 so it needs more reloads as well wich even lowers the DPS even more.

theb there is the T2 reduced heat damage for overheating.

So it realy does matter if you use a T2 launcher even is you are not using T2 ammo.


---

One of the criteria the meating gave was that the Drake was over used, not only by Caldari pilots but in general, one reason for that is that (when shield trained) you can fly it in 22 hours and fire missiles.

It's the easiest ship to adapt an entire group to, that is one of the reasons why the Drake blob is so succesfull, it's the Sherman tank of EVE online.

Make it more Skill intensive (with less skills) and it will make it less popular already.

Battlecruisers should become racial and missiles should have a more simular skill tree to Gunnery.

results no 3 month old players in Drakes or other Battlecruisers for that matter (good for cruisers)

The Drake will become less populair because you can't train 12 newbees to fly in your Drake blob within a week, and you don't just side learn it within the same week because you like to run missions in it or do WH.

The change will take time ofcourse but changing one ships stats to put an other ship on top just changes the name of the nerf every other week.
Kneebone
K-H Light Industries
#306 - 2012-02-27 16:37:09 UTC
My only complaint from a PvE perspective would be changing the HML system itself. Lowering flight times, as has been hinted at, would affect more than just the Drake. The Rof v. Kin change is great, the velocity change is nice in a few ways, but any changes to the HML system should not change the current range of missles on other ships such as the Tengu, Cerberus, or any other missle chucking ship.

As far as the resist changes go, doesn't bother me none. The RoF change will make the Drake better at non-Kin missions and it will still be an L3 beast of a ship. Flinging EM based missles will make other BC's look to fill that hole. Might lead to more armor battles, but we shall see. I think the trade will work better than most people think.

My only complaint from a PvP perspective is all about speed and AGI. Give the Drake the same Inertia Modifer as the rest of the T2 BC's, 0.704 for all compared to 0.628 for the Drake. Also the weight of the Drake needs to come down as well. The super Brick of BC's, the Harby, weights less than the Drake.

I would also apply the above to the Ferox and Brutix, the poor Ferox is at 0.597!!
Gypsio III
Questionable Ethics.
Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
#307 - 2012-02-27 17:32:43 UTC
Kneebone wrote:
My only complaint from a PvP perspective is all about speed and AGI. Give the Drake the same Inertia Modifer as the rest of the T2 BC's, 0.704 for all compared to 0.628 for the Drake. Also the weight of the Drake needs to come down as well. The super Brick of BC's, the Harby, weights less than the Drake.



What would you say to giving an unfitted Drake the same align time as an unfitted Hurricane?
Zyress
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#308 - 2012-02-27 19:35:07 UTC
Gypsio III wrote:
Kneebone wrote:
My only complaint from a PvP perspective is all about speed and AGI. Give the Drake the same Inertia Modifer as the rest of the T2 BC's, 0.704 for all compared to 0.628 for the Drake. Also the weight of the Drake needs to come down as well. The super Brick of BC's, the Harby, weights less than the Drake.



What would you say to giving an unfitted Drake the same align time as an unfitted Hurricane?


Nothing, they have the same align time now 8.23 sec. Now if you want to give it the base speed of a Hurricane I'd welcome that. Caldari ships are agile they just aren't quick. Hurrucane 206 m/s Drake 175 m/s.
Scien Inkunen
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#309 - 2012-02-27 19:46:06 UTC
What ever they intend to do - just do it at last.

Read the "Fart file" and you will understand the meaning of life !

Nor Tzestu
Dos Pollos Hermanos
#310 - 2012-02-28 00:59:40 UTC
I for one welcome the new drake. As i suck at pvp, I have stocked up on drake hulls all fitted PODLA style. Having more deeps and more range to go with it will be just what the dr. ordered. Getting people out of drakes for real boats in level 4 PVE is a good thing.
Zyress
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#311 - 2012-02-28 16:26:43 UTC
Soporo wrote:
Soporo wrote:
They ought to be looking at the freekin Daredevil, not the Drake.



yeah... Drake OP Angel Cartel Ships just fine...Roll
safrrr
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#312 - 2012-05-27 23:53:07 UTC
here is what its basicly comes at.

drake is good at almost anything. it has a strong tank and it has reliable firepower. not strong, but reliable.
thats what the drake is. cheap and reliable. thats why its one of the most used ships out there for both ratting, wormholing and pvp.

losing the drake its current abilities is simple blasphemy. trading the kinetic damage bonus for a rof bonus will have an almost identical damage output, changing the resistance for longer missile range, simply means you need to start fitting a medium slot for a sensor booster, giving it even less tank. the drake was never meant to snipe with, even with the changed bonuses, it will only suck more.

this is typical of CCP, they always change a ship when its good at something, the myrmidon got nerfed because people complained it had too much drone power. **HELLO! DRONE DAMAGE MODS MAKE DOMINIX INTO A 1600DPS POWERHOUSE!** They are now trying to do the same to the drake? because its good at what its supposed to do? being a cheap and reliable vehicle for us to be used. thats just messed up, and if they continue with this they are simply asking for another player riot in jita.

alot of people rely on the drake for its current abilities, its kinetic missile damage gives it an edge over players not able to tank it properly, its resistance mods makes it survive an attack longer, this ship, is already a front line ship. The raven is not one of those ships, the raven is sheer crap. not even polished crap with a bo tie attached to it, just plain old doggy poo.

change the drake, and ccp changes the heart of the caldari faction. if they are going to NERF this ship, then i demand they will nerf the tier 2 battlecruisers of the other factions.
Maeltstome
Academy of the Unseen Arts
The Potato Alliance
#313 - 2012-05-28 08:23:01 UTC
95k EHP. 350DPS. 1200 M/s. 70KM range. Costs 80mil. No Tracking.

BALANCE.
Tor Gungnir
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#314 - 2012-05-28 08:51:19 UTC
Nine out of ten Battlecruisers are Drakes.


Sure, you have some idiots like myself who prefer style over function and fly either Amarr, Gallente or Minmatar Battlecruisers, but at the end of the day nothing beats the Drake. It has everything in a cheap little package. There simply is no reason not to fly a Drake because it is so damn good.

The Drake needs to be hit by the nerfbat, or the forgotten Battlecruisers of the other factions (and the Ferox. What, you didn't know Caldari had another Battlecruiser?) needs to be brought in-line with the Drake's awesomeness.

I prefer option #1.

Space. It seems to go on and on forever. But then you get to the end and a gorilla starts throwing barrels at you.

Kalel Nimrott
Caldari Provisions
#315 - 2012-05-28 12:19:30 UTC
Question, what other t1 BC can tank a c3 wh?
If this change keeps the same "spirit" for c3, then I'm fine with it. That is the personal side of my post.

The logical side is, we already have a BS tanking BC size, the Drake. Recently CCP introduced a BS dps BC size boat, the naga.
Seems to me that changes in the drake only tips the balace to one side, the pvp side. Then again, this may be a new tendecie for the caldari pilots.

Bob Artis, you will be missed.

O7

Tor Gungnir
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#316 - 2012-05-28 12:34:19 UTC
Kalel Nimrott wrote:
Question, what other t1 BC can tank a c3 wh?
If this change keeps the same "spirit" for c3, then I'm fine with it. That is the personal side of my post.

The logical side is, we already have a BS tanking BC size, the Drake. Recently CCP introduced a BS dps BC size boat, the naga.
Seems to me that changes in the drake only tips the balace to one side, the pvp side. Then again, this may be a new tendecie for the caldari pilots.


Then were is the Minmatar tank? Your argument doesn't hold water since each faction has the T3 BC, but not a T3 tanker.

Space. It seems to go on and on forever. But then you get to the end and a gorilla starts throwing barrels at you.

Kalel Nimrott
Caldari Provisions
#317 - 2012-05-28 12:43:02 UTC
Tor Gungnir wrote:
Kalel Nimrott wrote:
Question, what other t1 BC can tank a c3 wh?
If this change keeps the same "spirit" for c3, then I'm fine with it. That is the personal side of my post.

The logical side is, we already have a BS tanking BC size, the Drake. Recently CCP introduced a BS dps BC size boat, the naga.
Seems to me that changes in the drake only tips the balace to one side, the pvp side. Then again, this may be a new tendecie for the caldari pilots.


Then were is the Minmatar tank? Your argument doesn't hold water since each faction has the T3 BC, but not a T3 tanker.


Your argument doesn't hold water couse I was talking about Caldari, no other factions. I wont get into that aegument since I don't fly them, tho I would like it very much. But since you mention it, the could change it so that Tier 2 (and not T2) would be every faction tankers and Tier 3 (not T3) would be the dps dealer. But it just a thought.

Bob Artis, you will be missed.

O7

Maeltstome
Academy of the Unseen Arts
The Potato Alliance
#318 - 2012-05-28 12:48:33 UTC
Tor Gungnir wrote:
Then were is the Minmatar tank? Your argument doesn't hold water since each faction has the T3 BC, but not a T3 tanker.


Cyclone has an active tanking bonus for shields.
Patient 2428190
DEGRREE'Fo'FREE Internet Business School
#319 - 2012-05-28 12:57:49 UTC
safrrr wrote:

this is typical of CCP, they always change a ship when its good at something, the myrmidon got nerfed because people complained it had too much drone power. **HELLO! DRONE DAMAGE MODS MAKE DOMINIX INTO A 1600DPS POWERHOUSE!** They are now trying to do the same to the drake? because its good at what its supposed to do? being a cheap and reliable vehicle for us to be used. thats just messed up, and if they continue with this they are simply asking for another player riot in jita.


It hasn't been changed since 2008 (when Quantum Rise massively buffed it). The suggested changes haven't even been revisited in 6 months.
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#320 - 2012-05-28 13:14:23 UTC
safrrr wrote:
here is what its basicly comes at.

drake is good at almost anything. it has a strong tank and it has reliable firepower. not strong, but reliable.
thats what the drake is. cheap and reliable. thats why its one of the most used ships out there for both ratting, wormholing and pvp.

losing the drake its current abilities is simple blasphemy. trading the kinetic damage bonus for a rof bonus will have an almost identical damage output...


If by "almost identical" you mean "33% more DPS", I suppose.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016