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Learning implants ruined my life

Author
Sentient Blade
Crisis Atmosphere
Coalition of the Unfortunate
#61 - 2012-05-28 10:58:58 UTC
Vera Algaert wrote:
it's a trade-off between "fun now" and "capability later" - such trade-offs always hurt a little inside but they are part of what sets EVE apart from other games (where you can have everything at once).


Could you explain to me how this trade off benefits the game or its players? Especially newer ones?
Degren
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#62 - 2012-05-28 11:00:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Degren
"lol they're cheap." Seriously, how far off the point are you guys? Eve GD is probably the very worst place to attempt to epeen stroke.

+5s aren't cheap. The amount of newbros burning for +5s right out the gate and threads asking for help optimizing skill queues etc shows the trends.

Suggestion: Make a new account every once in a while and spam your BITTERVET KNOWLEDGE in rookie help. Tell them they don't have to be super optimized in this game, and they don't need to plug in anything more than a couple +3s at a time. Tell them to enjoy the game (the way you have forgotten how). They need it, and rookie help needs it. Just don't be a **** in there like you are here.

Malcanis wrote:
Or, rather I do: it's in your head.


So you..do get the point or...?

Hello, hello again.

Misanth
RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE
#63 - 2012-05-28 11:09:10 UTC
Touchy subject. Well written.

AFK-cloaking in a system near you.

Jafit
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#64 - 2012-05-28 11:13:54 UTC
Vera Algaert wrote:
I don't see the huge issue...

I currently pay 18m just for the clone when I get podded.

two +3 implants and one +3% agility implant don't add that much, maybe another 35-40m.

even in 0.0 I don't lose pods all that often (my current clone has lasted me 3 weeks so far and I mostly log in to pvp these days)

does it really matter whether you can use some ship/module a few days earlier or later?
just imagine how horrible your situation would be if you had signed up for EVE two weeks later than you did!

it's a trade-off between "fun now" and "capability later" - such trade-offs always hurt a little inside but they are part of what sets EVE apart from other games (where you can have everything at once).


Translation: I genuinely cannot relate to players who do not have as much isk as I do. Well that's a lie, I do understand the issue and fully acknowledge that it isn't fun, I have nothing of value to contribute and will make an excuse for its continued existance on the basis that it 'sets Eve apart'. But really I just want everyone to know how spacerich I am and that I think nothing of spending 60m on a clone.

Malcanis wrote:
Meanwhile other players who started at the same time as you were out playing the game, accumulating assets, gaining experience, making contacts, adding to their game knowledge, boosting standings, learning about transversal, range & how to manage capacitor, exploring the map, trying out different professions and advancing their position in the game in a hundred ways.

But hey, you have maybe a hundred or two thousand more SP to show for that month when you paid not to play, and that's what counts right?

GG


Firstly, *Whoosh* is the sound of the joke going over your head. My post was a parody of the I Was There trailer.

Secondly, you think that living in empire shooting red crosses to grind standings is 'playing the game' and 'gaining experience'. Wololol.
Brooks Puuntai
Solar Nexus.
#65 - 2012-05-28 11:23:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Brooks Puuntai
When I was actually active and lived in null I always swapped into a +3 clone before fleets/PVP. +5s where only for times when I knew I wasn't going to be on for a decent amount of time. Either way if you can't afford to lose it don't fly it this includes implants, also quit worrying about training time so much. A day or 2 longer on a skill won't kill ya.... Well it might in-game but not literally.

CCP's Motto: If it isn't broken, break it. If it is broken, ignore it. Improving NPE / Dynamic New Eden

Romar Agent
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#66 - 2012-05-28 11:29:48 UTC
A learning implant gives an advantage the same way a T2-module gives an advantage.

Both cost money, both can be destroyed.

If you cannot replace it, do not use it.

If you don't have enough ISK, mount something cheaper.

No one forces you to mount +5s, the same way no one forces you to dedicate a Deadspace fit to PVP.

So either get a jumpclone (grind for it, all the while you can use your +5s). Then plan in PVP phases with +1s and PVE phases with +5s (you loose some flexibility due to 24h timeframes, but that's an opportunity cost).

Or balance out risk/benefit and fly exactly what you can afford to lose.
Patient 2428190
DEGRREE'Fo'FREE Internet Business School
#67 - 2012-05-28 12:00:21 UTC
Fly in lowsec and enjoy the use of +5s and/or fancy pirate implants in PvP for years.
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#68 - 2012-05-28 14:11:49 UTC
Richard Desturned wrote:
Jack Miton wrote:
A LOT of PVP only people run with multi BIL isk pods all the time.


i do

on my supercap alt, anyway

not really worth running about with a multi-billion isk pod unless the ship you're flying is worth that consideration

Goons have supercaps now? Whoa ~

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?

slam34
Wormhole Tourz
#69 - 2012-05-28 14:33:33 UTC
I cared about implants for about ten minutes in May of 2009. If I only flew what I could afford to lose I would be flying a reaper around everywhere.

Enjoy the moment. Cool

High sec: That's the tutorial. Null Sec is the actual game. Wormholes? Even CCP isn't sure.

Kaaeliaa
Tyrannos Sunset
#70 - 2012-05-28 18:00:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Kaaeliaa
Onyx Nyx wrote:
Kaaeliaa wrote:
Simetraz wrote:
THis is just too funny.

A bunch of vets that are scared of some newbie who can pick up +3's for song and dance and what catch up the vets skill points after how many years.

Give me break.

Oh but wait attribute implants or a snake set that could cost you in the range of 1 bill + is okay.
Cause those will make you more likely to engage in a PVP fight.

Give me a break all you are getting desperate for trolling now going after some as foolish as this.

CCP already bent over to the crying and made everyones racual stats the same.
SO you want to dumb down the game even more and make it so that everyone trains at the same speed EXCEPT for those that can afford 1 Bill + for implants ???

Yeh okay I can see how this is going to help new players.. NOT


Actually, removing implants and increasing stats across the board would be a HUGE help to new players and the mildly risk-averse.

Personally, I would be much more inclined to roam, even solo, without having to worry about either messing with my training times or losing implants. Keep the implants, but remove the attribute bonuses and just have the sets. Veteran/rich players keep their combat bonuses, new players that couldn't afford the high-end implants anyway lose nothing, but gain the peace of mind to not give a crap about being podded.

In the end, the vets should support this. They might get more targets roaming around, like me.


No. Because should this change make it in, it won't be long until someone else makes another idiotic suggestion that they keep drumming on about until CCP caves in and implements it.

If you are too terrified to undock because of the sandbox design, then EVE just isn't not for you.


Because idiotic suggestions NEVER come from nullsec players and the people that claim to be trying to "save" EVE, and your idea of what is idiotic is exactly the same as everyone else's. Roll

"Do not lift the veil. Do not show the door. Do not split the dream."

sabre906
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#71 - 2012-05-28 18:02:44 UTC
tl;dr:

Risk Aversion ruined my game -> I ruined my game.
Lucy Ferrr
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#72 - 2012-05-28 18:17:22 UTC
+2's are really cheap and the time difference between 4's and 2's isn't as much as I thought it would be. Wear +2s and try and get your pod out. You should be able to get your pod out 3 out of 4 times and that one time you don't a 14mil pod aint nothing.
Kaaeliaa
Tyrannos Sunset
#73 - 2012-05-28 18:18:10 UTC
sabre906 wrote:
tl;dr:

Risk Aversion ruined my game -> I ruined my game.


On the other side of the coin, the nullbears constantly whine about how risk aversion is bad. The real problem is that they don't have any. Why do you think there's no small scale PvP anymore? If everyone can afford to bleed capital ships like they're nothing, they'll continue taking more and more of them into battles in a cascading charlie foxtrot of blob warfare.

Being averse to risk and the self-preservation instinct is integral to the human condition. Since EVE is ultimately about the human condition, how can you justify removing it?

"Do not lift the veil. Do not show the door. Do not split the dream."

Cloned S0ul
POCKOCMOC Inc.
#74 - 2012-05-28 18:28:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Cloned S0ul
Just use two impant + 4 even +3 why need whole set... use those implants that boost your actualy skill tree, here no sense to using whole set while people are on remap because even you use +3+ remap is easy to get primary atribute like 29 and secondary 2x, here no sense at all to use full set of learning implants while train one skill during short pvp while some chance for losing pod...

Personaly one of my charcter got +5 impants set, but i dont use it since 4 years, becuse i like to pvp somtime, and jumping betwen jump clones made me sick, so even im able to use +5 set i dont use it since x years and im happy while he siting on +4 jc and i dont care about sp lose...
Moonasha
Orcses and Goblinz
#75 - 2012-05-28 18:36:27 UTC
Jinkii Visser wrote:
Implants are something that i see as clunky and kind of messed up from early eve. They should be independent of jump clones.
There should be like racks of implants say like 5 (id even go 10) of them. You add your implants to whatever rack and you choose which rack you want to activate at a fitting station (near carrier, pos or station). Then maybe some timer like 2hrs before being able to change your active rack again.
Why? Because there are so many implants that affect the ships you fly. Shield ones, armour ones, small projectile ones, big projectile ones, missile ones, hybrid ones, speed ones. A PLETHORA of implants to go with the many varied ships and fittings in eve. YET they are all tied to this stupid ******** 24hr jumplone and timer. It just stifles the use of them. If you could swap between sets every few hours people would use more of them. Hell yeah ill jump in my projectile set for this rifter roam,.. few hours later.. sweet gunna do some ratting in my missile boat ill go my missile and learning set.. get bored of that, im going to go in a fast cruiser solo roam ill activate my low grade slave set.
Instead its just painful and simply not worth the hassle of having multiple sets. Not only do you get stuck in them for 24hrs but then there is the oh **** the implants i want are on the other side of the eve universe.. :effort:
Then finally for people in wormholes that don't have easy access to stations and random high sec entry points the clunkyness of implants really becomes apparent. I mean you have this varied dynamic wormhole world.. check.. varied shield or armour fleets.. check.. access to implants or able to swap between shield and armour sets.. hell no.

The current system favours high sec ratters or station sitters. I think learning implants have a real bad impact on the game. Just remove them totally and have implant sets independent of jump clones. It would really be a better way to have it and i think would mean higher usage of them in the end than what what we have now.


We NEED to be able to lose implants though. A set of slaves is simply too powerful otherwise. It's just the learning ones that need to go.
Barbara Nichole
Cryogenic Consultancy
#76 - 2012-05-28 18:38:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Barbara Nichole
no one told you you had to use the training implants. but I'm glad they are there for those that want them.

  - remove the cloaked from local; free intel is the real problem, not  "afk" cloaking -

[IMG]http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a208/DawnFrostbringer/consultsig.jpg[/IMG]

Sentient Blade
Crisis Atmosphere
Coalition of the Unfortunate
#77 - 2012-05-28 18:45:30 UTC
Barbara Nichole wrote:
no one told you you had to use the training implants. but I'm glad they are there for those that want them.


It was actually one of the first things I learnt when I joined my first corp; in order to get the most out of the real-time training queue you need to train the learning skills and train cybernetics to use implants.
Talon SilverHawk
Patria o Muerte
#78 - 2012-05-28 19:03:36 UTC
Sentient Blade wrote:
I headed straight for Jita, and bought myself a rupture and fitted it out. It cost 30 million ISK for a bog standard T2 AC fit, had god-awful EHP but not bad DPS, and a flight of ECM drones. I saved the fitting, this, I figured, would not be the last one I would need. Oh man, I called that one right.

I spent the rest of the evening solo roaming through Geminate and into Etherium Reach, I killed a random cyno frigate that was following me around, and then came up against a Curse flown by the CEO of another alliance and he kicked my ass; no capacitor makes a MWD somewhat useless to try and get on top of someone to apply damage. Down went my shields, my EC-300s not able to hit a jam cycle... and then.. he let me go. Spared, because he thought "Ruppy" the Rupture was a good choice of name for my ship.

So yeah, wow. I'd dodged a bullet, and so I thanked him and moved on.

Eventually I encountered a system with a bunch of people in it, and one of them struck up a conversation, telling me that there had been a big battle there earlier that day, his coalition vs the one next door... hmm interesti... wait, is that assault frigate coming towards me? 20 jumps from the nearest support and I had an assault frig and a Rifter on me, with BCs appearing on D-Scan heading towards the gate I'd warped at 100 too.

Battle time! Burning around, trying desperately to burn away to reduce their transversal, trying to land a cycle of the medium neut on them, heart racing, hand shaking, I got a lucky hit and sucked his capacitor dry, his MWD was off, 3 cycles of the guns and he was down, scratch one retribution. He wasn't even at 50% structure before I'd moved my neut and point over onto the next target, a rifter.

Pointed. Neuted. But he'd got in close, tracking with 425s was almost impossible, and by this time I'd started taking heavy fire from a Drake, Omen, Eos and Omen. They had me tackled at 24km? Long points, my MWD was still available! I hit the overheat button and pulsed it, shooting out in front of the rifter just long enough to line up a couple of cycles on him at low transversal. Boom!

Then I exploded.

Now usually at this point I would be in panic mode; let's face it, there is little fun about trying to navigate your way through 20+ jumps of null and lowsec, trying to save your implanted pod, but that would be the situation I would usually find myself in, and fortunately for me I've been fairly lucky in the past, always managing to burn out of the edge of a dictor bubble just before my ship went pop, or the enemy having more important things to worry about than my pod.

I sat there, and less than a minute later, I was back in Jita fitting up my next Rupture and heading out once again. No need to try and pod it back to save some learning implants.

This time I had figured out a shortcut, taking advantage of a friendly -A- station system I managed to get straight into ER, only to run into another curse, except this time it was in an incursion system at 100% influence. Before I could align out I was hit by the rats, the curse decloaked, my cap was gone, and the Sanshas had me in hull before the first volly of missiles from the curse hit.

Bye bye Rupture #2. I warped off to a planet before I could be locked again, and hit the self destruct. 2 or 3 minutes later I was back in Jita fitting up another ship to go back. That one didn't end well either; I ended up running into a Legion of xxDEATHxx gatecamp, complete with interdictor and Falcon; as you might expect, I died. POD didn't stand a hope this time either and pop, up in smoke it went.

To cut a long story short, after downtime the fun continued, except this time it was in Providence going after CVA and friends. I even got an agreed 1v1 with another Rupture from ROL, and won, only to have the glory snatched away by some noob from Nulli Secunda who wanted to get in on the kills.

Camping HED, going on a roam comprised of 4 or 5 other alliances, and ended up dying in a 12 vs 20 fleet fight at the Kari gate, it was fantastic stuff... (p.s. volition cult, stop playing gate games with your logistics).

Then, with 2 hours left on the jump clone timer, I met back up with the pilot of the Rupture I had killed earlier in the day, and who had returned to Y-MPWL after being in the earlier roam fleet. He was now trying to kill VC solo in a drake, and despite our two alliances technically being -5 for reasons defying understanding, we decided to form a 2 man fleet and see if we could get any kills against our mutual enemies.

80m ISK of damage inflicted on a thorax, manticore and condoor later, and my final ship of the day exploded as a cyno went up to bridge in the enemies' cavalry.

I was very, very happy.



So what does this have to do with implants ruining my life, you say?

Well it's simple; a few hours ago my 24 hours was up, and I jumped back into one of my +4 learning clones to get my training back on track. As I did so I thought to myself how I only really had the opportunities for fun I had today because I was in an empty pod.

In order to have fun in the game I had to sacrifice the rate at which I could use new parts of it.

So even after losing 7 ships, the only dissapointment I was left with was knowing that, in the long run, it still made more sense to stay in my learning clone, away from just-for-fun PvP.

That's why learning implants ruined my life.



Oh my god you mean you couldn't have your cake and eat it. You poor bast*rd.

Tal


nat longshot
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#79 - 2012-05-28 19:04:30 UTC
Implant give you a edge in combat not hurt it.

eve is is a game of %'s. take two char's that are train to the some skill levels but them in the same ships. who going to win?

the person that knows how to use the char skills and implants to beat the other guy. overloading and impants give you that edge over the other player.

same skills and if player one has a 3% vs your 5% dmg mod implant the 5% more then likey will in.

when i was 4 months into the game and smoke a 2 and a half year old player in 1v1 combat he corp laughed at him becuase i was only 4 months old well i had the better fit and use that fit to beat him.

know what your doing with skills and implants gives you that edge. implants dont hurt the game they help it out with that whole not knowing there edge. scan a ship tells you there fit not what in the head.

 [13:12:18] CCP Punkturis nat longshot you're a cutie.. OH YAH I WIN!!

Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#80 - 2012-05-28 20:25:04 UTC
Jafit wrote:


Secondly, you think that living in empire shooting red crosses to grind standings is 'playing the game' and 'gaining experience'. Wololol.


Do I? Well, the things one learns.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016