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EVE New Citizens Q&A

 
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My future goals

Author
Sabotaged
Veritas Vincit
#41 - 2012-05-27 14:31:44 UTC
Where did you get the terms Hotshot Fighter Pilot and Warlord? Is there like a evemon skill plan somewhere or something?
Victor Markov
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#42 - 2012-05-27 14:45:27 UTC
Khanh'rhh wrote:
Victor Markov wrote:
However Plentath had this to say about it.
"Viable command ships that are actually command ships, are basically the Damnation. It can get near to one million effective hitpoints (800,000 typical -- if you set it and your fleet up to do it) so calling it a primary target is usually a terrible idea, when you consider you can have destroyed 8 battleships in the same time, and taken upto 10,000 dps (worth a dreadnaught) off the field in the same time."

I wonder what your thoughts are? Is she wrong in saying that calling the Damnation as the primary is usually a terrible idea?


Plentath is me.

I stand by the statement, but you have to see it is situational. If you're in a 10 v 10 fight then you can be pretty sure they won't be calling a massive buffer with little damage as primary. If you're in a large fleet, then you will.

Ultimately, this discussion is a little pointless because, as I said, all these questions will resolve themselves.


Agean thank you and you are no doubt right about how ultimately, this discussion is pointless as what I need is time.... Still to be honest now I am just having fun poking J'Poll trying to size her up if you will. I am also getting some good tips out of all this. I for one feel much better going deep Amar at first and then branching out.

Sabotaged wrote:
Where did you get the terms Hotshot Fighter Pilot and Warlord? Is there like a evemon skill plan somewhere or something?

Not that I know of. Do you know what a Warlord is? That is where I got the term Warlord.
Schmata Bastanold
In Boobiez We Trust
#43 - 2012-05-27 15:06:35 UTC
I still think OP has no clue what FC does in Eve and - what's worse - he refuses to take what we all try to tell him: you can be incarnation of general Patton himself but if you know sh*t about ships, fits, tactics specific to Eve you will lose. And since you started play Eve you know exaclty sh*t. Start as a grunt in fleets and see how it looks like, see what FCs are flying, ask them for advice after fleet ends. Work your way up from very bottom of hierarchy and you have a chance to lead ppl some day.

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Victor Markov
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#44 - 2012-05-27 20:06:37 UTC
Schmata Bastanold wrote:
I still think OP has no clue what FC does in Eve and - what's worse - he refuses to take what we all try to tell him: you can be incarnation of general Patton himself but if you know sh*t about ships, fits, tactics specific to Eve you will lose. And since you started play Eve you know exaclty sh*t. Start as a grunt in fleets and see how it looks like, see what FCs are flying, ask them for advice after fleet ends. Work your way up from very bottom of hierarchy and you have a chance to lead ppl some day.

So all the times I have agreed with you about not knowing anything about tactics specific to Eve I was what; being dishonest?
When I said Plentath was right and I need lots of time was I being dishonest?
When I started a thread asking basic questions about if I can cloak and FC was I being cheeky?
Your post was belittling and made me laugh at the same time. Hard to do.
Khanh'rhh
Sparkle Motion.
#45 - 2012-05-27 20:15:31 UTC
Victor Markov wrote:
Schmata Bastanold wrote:
I still think OP has no clue what FC does in Eve and - what's worse - he refuses to take what we all try to tell him: you can be incarnation of general Patton himself but if you know sh*t about ships, fits, tactics specific to Eve you will lose. And since you started play Eve you know exaclty sh*t. Start as a grunt in fleets and see how it looks like, see what FCs are flying, ask them for advice after fleet ends. Work your way up from very bottom of hierarchy and you have a chance to lead ppl some day.

So all the times I have agreed with you about not knowing anything about tactics specific to Eve I was what; being dishonest?
When I said Plentath was right and I need lots of time was I being dishonest?
When I started a thread asking basic questions about if I can cloak and FC was I being cheeky?
Your post was belittling and made me laugh at the same time. Hard to do.


The reason you're getting (lightly) trolled is because you are coming at this thread from the wrong angle. The statements (paraphrasing) such as "I am a supreme commander, I just need to know which ship to do it from" come across as arrogant, and EvE is a game where arrogance gets punished one way or another.

You could be a fantastic leader of people and still NEVER understand what makes a fleet tick from the ground up, whereas some FCs are hopeless aspies and get the job done with a merciless efficiency.

You just need to start doing it, and see what happens. Your ship is literally the single least important part of FCing - except is it's a huge faux pas.

"Do not touch anything unnecessarily. Beware of pretty girls in dance halls and parks who may be spies, as well as bicycles, revolvers, uniforms, arms, dead horses, and men lying on roads -- they are not there accidentally." -Soviet infantry manual,

J'Poll
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#46 - 2012-05-27 20:22:09 UTC
Not going to bother anymore.

OP doesn't want to listen to good advice, so let's stop giving it and he will find everything out the hard way.

Personal channel: Crazy Dutch Guy

Help channel: Help chat - Reloaded

Public roams channels: RvB Ganked / Redemption Road / Spectre Fleet / Bombers bar / The Content Club

gfldex
#47 - 2012-05-27 20:54:52 UTC
Victor Markov wrote:
This game and my other MMO have more in common then you might think


Care to name that MMO?

Victor Markov wrote:
If the Damnation is not going to be called out first a large chunk of the time why not have it be the FC so you can be rewarded with another Warship on the field of battle?


You will rarely ever see a Damnation be called primary because it's so easy to keep alive. It works as a FC vessel, used it myself for that. The problem is that you don't really want your fleet booster and your FC explode at the same time. In some situation it's also to slow to keep up with the fleet. So you end up warping around a lot and as such wont provide boost when it may be needed. Those pesky fleet links simply switch off as soon as you enter warp. May be the reason why fleet boosters tend to hug a POS.

Before you make that decision you may want to have a complete skill plan. Don't worry, Fleet Commander lvl5 will take you never more then 42 days. Proper fleet boost skills take about a year to get done. That are skillpoints of no use unless you actually have to modules running.

About the matter of cloaky or buffer ship as an FC. Get used to the answer: both. You will need a covert ops alt if you care to FC a lot. In really big fights you fly around with two covert ops because you need backup. In that case you have dedicated target callers in addition to your main FC.

As you may have noticed there is a lot of doubt coming your way because you stated your goal to become FC. That is normal. Anybody who has played the game properly for a few years has met somebody who was dieing for being a hotshot leader. That usually doesn't work well in the end. There seams to be some rather complex informal election process in place in EVE that produces FCs. There is further a not so complex informal process how players get rid of FCs they don't feel confident to fly with.

If you take all the sand out of the box, only the cat poo will remain.

Bakin Cake
X.S. Industries
#48 - 2012-05-27 23:04:14 UTC
A good leader is only as strong as the people that follow him.

You cant simply say im going to be a fleet commander follow me! Eve is a game where reputations is reliant on hard earned experiences. Thats why you have characters like Shadoo or Lord Maldoror who are famous within the community and why they have dedicated followers who trust their ships within his scope of expertise, if you look at most of R&K's videos Lord Maldoror is most likely going to be in a guardian or triage carrier.

remember that scene in The Return of the King where the Theodyn(??) (king of horsemen) fought alongside his men? He wasn't exposing himself - his anonymity within the horde keeps him safe. When I flew with the NC a couple of years ago, most of my fc's where in drakes or geddons - cheap ships lost in the masses of its brethren. Personally I am not one to aspire to be in a leadership role, i dont have the ability to keep cool in an intense situation, im happy to be a peon.

True leaders dont proclaim their right to rule - people place them there (except the british, but thats another thread). Brilliant leaders knows the ins and outs of all the game mechanics and possible tactics to destroy the enemy. There is an interview on youtube with The Mittani (goonswarm) using Sun Tzu's "The art of war" as a guide to winning over the enemy - Mittens born as a miner, taking charge of the most infamous alliance in game.

EvE is a strange beast where the mechanics arent so apparent, exploits are easily closed and new ones pop up. Any viable tactic is legal within the game, whereas in other games people claim haxxor! other games are easy to exploit and take months to correct. (i personally broke guild wars Heroes Ascent a while back, I was able to macro a Hero-R-spike) being able to adapt to the field of battle is more about your desire to continuously learn about whats possible and knowing the weakness of the enemy. No battle is ever strictly a broadside brawl - the ability to control the landscape isnt a skll you can queue up a
Victor Markov
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#49 - 2012-05-28 06:41:41 UTC
Khanh'rhh wrote:


The reason you're getting (lightly) trolled is because you are coming at this thread from the wrong angle. The statements (paraphrasing) such as "I am a supreme commander, I just need to know which ship to do it from" come across as arrogant, and EvE is a game where arrogance gets punished one way or another..

I do think that is how it is being taken but I also get the feeling people are not really understanding what I am saying. Maybe I am addressing to many people at once and crossing wires?

Look at my first and second post. All I said was I have goals and is this progression ok for those goals. I am asking questions and flat out stating "Seeing as how far that is into the future I only hope my training progression favors my goals. I would make a post in the forums asking such but at this point I think it best to play it by ear and just watch for now. " a point echoed by pretty much everyone and never disputed by me.


J'Poll and Schmata Bastanold have ignored the context of my words and focused on parts out of context.
My mistake was taking the bait and trying to clarify when I really should have just ignored them... however I was also having a bit of fun with it. The " "I am a supreme commander" did not start coming out tell I was told I do not know what leadership is. The one that got me started was
"Player acting as a Fleet Commander is not like some hero character from RPG games, his presence on battlefield has zero impact on gang members atributes/skills/capabilities. His job is to command what fleet has to do."

My response was (paraphrasing) "No sh*t"
and then I very well might have let my pride get the better of me.

I have gotten good advice here. From you, Petrus Blackshell, Lyric Lahnder also gave great advice and a great video and gfldex has fallowed up some of my questions with great counterpoints as well.

Looking at everyone's fascination and focus with Commanding I assume it must be a very vaunted position here in eve.

As I have said before
I believe in time I will be up for such a task... but I assume no one joins eve with expectations of mediocrity.

Once more I think you all for your help but lets give me a year or two and see if I even have the legs for Eve combat.

Victor Markov
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#50 - 2012-05-28 08:27:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Victor Markov
Bakin Cake wrote:

When I flew with the NC a couple of years ago, most of my fc's where in drakes or geddons - cheap ships lost in the masses of its brethren. Personally I am not one to aspire to be in a leadership role, i dont have the ability to keep cool in an intense situation, im happy to be a peon.

Your right. The options and possibility's in Eve are vast and easy to get carried away with. I must start small and apply myself in the hopes I am found of use as a peon in time.
Khanh'rhh
Sparkle Motion.
#51 - 2012-05-28 09:11:39 UTC
You should name the other MMO, or this looks like really bad posturing. Mostly, because there are no other MMOs with the kind of vast corporation wars you are talking about.

Either that, or you are actually SirMolle and we've all been trolled.

"Do not touch anything unnecessarily. Beware of pretty girls in dance halls and parks who may be spies, as well as bicycles, revolvers, uniforms, arms, dead horses, and men lying on roads -- they are not there accidentally." -Soviet infantry manual,

Khanh'rhh
Sparkle Motion.
#52 - 2012-05-28 16:29:27 UTC
Victor Markov wrote:
Looking at everyone's fascination and focus with Commanding I assume it must be a very vaunted position here in eve.

A new player's perspective on a battle he was in v. recently:
Quote:
Our main fleet warped to 0 on the reinforced infrastructure hub and set up a ring of dictor/hictor bubbles around it. A few minutes later, the Nulli main alphafleet warped in on top of them and were bubbled immediately (whether by their own bubble or ours I don't know). Immediately, mass blapping and alphaing occurs against both sides. Progodlegend, the enemy FC, was killed very quickly. The PL FC Shadoo, when attempting to call him primary, was given the response "He's already dead". Progod would go on to express some consternation in his fleet's comms over the legitimacy of calling primaries on FCs and further compare the fine members of the Test/PL fleets with certain portions of the female anatomy.
After the first minute or so, the Nulli fleet began slow burning away from the bubbles. Unfortunately for them, a constant new stream of bubbles were deployed, with a total linear diameter of 70+ kilometers. As the Nulli fleet burned through these, an -A- gang of stealth bombers launched a couple of bombing runs on the TEST/PL fleet. However, their perches were not the best, and the bombing run only took out ~10 ships at the periphery of the fleet. Had they been positioned better, much more damage could have been done. The 50~ -A- bombers suffered 7-8 losses from our extensive and disposable newbro Rifter heroes and various other tackle. Shortly after these bombing runs, PL jumped in a handful of Dreadnaughts, who began blapping vigorously.
At the same time, our own stealth bombers under the legendary Mister Vee were waiting on grid while erotically stroking our massive torpedoes and simultaneously chomping at the bit. Unfortunately, the near constant stream of bubbles on top of the Nulli fleet counter-intuitively prevented us from launching our run. After waiting for some time, a break in the bubble chain opened up and glorious leader Vee commenced our 35+ bomber run with perfect warpins.
We launched our bombs en masse -- dead center in the retreating Nulli fleet. The resulting carnage was immense, as we all spammed warp to escape. Only one of our bombers was lost, and that loss was to being caught in the blast radius of one of our bombs. After warping out and reloading, we warped back to our various perches and waited for our launchers to cycle as the Nulli fleet continued to burn through bubble country. After a few minutes, Mister Vee gave us the go ahead and warped us in for another bombing run, adding further insult to injury to the remaining Maelstroms.
Shortly after the second bombing run, the remaining members of the Nulli fleet were able to warp away to a gate. Our fleet followed in hot pursuit, with our glorious bomber fleet coming a few seconds short of making yet another run on the Nulli fleet as they jumped through. Both the main fleet and the bomber fleet jumped through in chase, and bubbles were thrown up. It was a turkey shoot and Mister Vee declared open torpedo season. We all decloaked and immediately began volley after beautiful volley of newly-renovated torpedoes into the remaining targets until none were left.
After the Nulli fleet was driven/destroyed off the field, PL dropped in supercarriers to finish off the infrastructure hub and the TCU. This concluded the end of my first week, and what a fantastic week it has been.

"Do not touch anything unnecessarily. Beware of pretty girls in dance halls and parks who may be spies, as well as bicycles, revolvers, uniforms, arms, dead horses, and men lying on roads -- they are not there accidentally." -Soviet infantry manual,

Baneken
Arctic Light Inc.
Arctic Light
#53 - 2012-05-28 20:07:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Baneken
Also especially in large fleets there plenty of ways for being in command in fleets and only one of them is being an FC.
A good fleet commander knows this an points sub-commanders whose roles are just as important as the FC's in well organized fleets.
As far as roles you have envisioned you might like to give bombers a try but a way to become a good bomber pilot is long littered with wrecked bombers and corpses (yours), also competent bomber FC's are hard to come by so tactics involved usually end up with some idiot bombing their own fleet by accident.

edit:
That goon propaganda text above is definitely not written by a newbie; nice write up though. P
Khanh'rhh
Sparkle Motion.
#54 - 2012-05-28 22:15:56 UTC
Baneken wrote:
That goon propaganda text above is definitely not written by a newbie; nice write up though. P

TEST.

Also it was posted on Reddit - by someone who joined TEST last week. Seems pretty legit Big smile ..... but I won't derail.

"Do not touch anything unnecessarily. Beware of pretty girls in dance halls and parks who may be spies, as well as bicycles, revolvers, uniforms, arms, dead horses, and men lying on roads -- they are not there accidentally." -Soviet infantry manual,

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