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Infinite skill queue
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Snow Burst
Caldari State
#41 - 2012-05-26 13:54:55 UTC
Xhaiden Ora wrote:
Tippia wrote:
No. You seem to have completely missed mine though.


The point was that if someone has no time to play, making them log in to bump their queue will not make them play.

+1 hit the nail on the head you did

There Is A 90% Chance All Of What You Just Read Is Wrong, Inaccurate Or Just Me Being Controversial In Some Way. Or By Some Chance It's Completely Right In Every Way... At Least To Me :3
Caleb Ayrania
TarNec
Invisible Exchequer
#42 - 2012-05-26 13:59:06 UTC
The point is the demand its making that people log on every day is totally and utterly ******** in a game that has such a long progression curve..

EVE is not a casual game, so asking for casual log on is totally counter to everything else in EVE.

Getting rid of this flawed mechanic would highly improve the game..

Alternative would be extend the queue by 24 hours for each year of the age of the account, but that might bring a lot of issues with people calling that veteran biased..

I have lost millions of skill points to this demand all the way back from when we used alarm clocks to get up and switch..

The queue was one of the best ideas in a long time, but the 24 hour limit is downright stupid.

If EVE wants a mixed segment of players they need to consider getting rid of this part of the game, it is so heavily biased to people that can log on every day that its potentially going to swing the composition of players..

Since I can speak from the total EVE history, I can just say that many players change their RL situation a lot during 9 years. They get married, they have children, they move residence, and even nationality.. These things are natural, and they should not handicap your characters in EVE. If anyone here think it should, they have seriously not been playing the game long enough to grasp how long term a dedication EVE players eventually get. This training feature is totally counter to that fact, and it would be very important to fix it, if ccp wants the next 5 or 10 years to be good.
Loius Woo
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#43 - 2012-05-26 14:15:41 UTC
Snow Burst wrote:
Xhaiden Ora wrote:
Tippia wrote:
No. You seem to have completely missed mine though.


The point was that if someone has no time to play, making them log in to bump their queue will not make them play.

+1 hit the nail on the head you did


If they have NO time to play, then why should the game be designed for them to benefit from NOT playing?

Tell me how you want the game to give you something for NOT playing.
Snow Burst
Caldari State
#44 - 2012-05-26 14:17:14 UTC
Loius Woo wrote:
Snow Burst wrote:
Xhaiden Ora wrote:
Tippia wrote:
No. You seem to have completely missed mine though.


The point was that if someone has no time to play, making them log in to bump their queue will not make them play.

+1 hit the nail on the head you did


If they have NO time to play, then why should the game be designed for them to benefit from NOT playing?

Tell me how you want the game to give you something for NOT playing.

cuz people can ******* play some of the time just not all the time, such a radical notion isnt it

There Is A 90% Chance All Of What You Just Read Is Wrong, Inaccurate Or Just Me Being Controversial In Some Way. Or By Some Chance It's Completely Right In Every Way... At Least To Me :3
Im Super Gay
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#45 - 2012-05-26 14:32:38 UTC
Loius Woo wrote:
Im Super Gay wrote:
It would be impossible to buy skills Arrow set 18 month titan que anyway, as you can't inject skills unless all the prereqs are trained.

The whole premise of passive skill training is that you don't need to log on and mindlessly grind up XP to level up. The "infinite" skill que, or at least extended skill que falls in line with that premise. If you can only play eve at certain times and/or days of the week, increasing the skill que would help reduce the chore of skill bumping during times when you can't play eve anyway.

Skill bumpers don't effect ccp's bottom line, if they want to pay $15 per month to never log in than thats their choice. In fact, removing the need to log in to skill bump would actually slightly reduce the load on the ccp servers.

If nothing else, at least give us the ability to que one individual skill to V at a time, so i don't need to log on in 4 hours and 17 min to que the skill from IV to V.



Wrong.

If you had the ability to queue as much as you wanted to, you could log on like 7 times in 18 months to train for Titans.

Then you could sell your character for isk.

Then you could use the isk to fund 2 other accounts.

Then those two accounts could do the same thing.

Then those could sell titan pilots for the same amount.

Then you could pay for 4 accounts to do the same thing.....

You see where this is going?


An infinite queue = a broken game.

Until someone addresses the issue that infinite skill queue allows players to afk make isk by selling high sp pilots, this idea is DOA and everyone knows it...

BTW, I just updated my skill queue. Cause I have the time and the queue was up within 24 hours.


Thankfully there's this thing called economics. If its easier to flood the market with bare bones titan pilots, then the price goes down as supply increases, making it more of a buyers market and less profit per char made is less lucrative to the char seller.

What you've described can be done with or without an infinite que today. People can and do train chars with the sole purpose to *gasp* sell them for profit with no interaction with other players when they skill bump. Oh god, the sky is falling! There are players that log in, que a skill and log out repeatedly for 18 months with no player interaction, then they turn around and sell their char. Clearly this is game breaking and something needs to be done about people creating chars with the express purpose of selling it. Roll
Sarah Schneider
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#46 - 2012-05-26 14:38:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Sarah Schneider
Caleb Ayrania wrote:
The point is the demand its making that people log on every day is totally and utterly ******** in a game that has such a long progression curve..

EVE is not a casual game, so asking for casual log on is totally counter to everything else in EVE.

Getting rid of this flawed mechanic would highly improve the game..

Alternative would be extend the queue by 24 hours for each year of the age of the account, but that might bring a lot of issues with people calling that veteran biased..

I have lost millions of skill points to this demand all the way back from when we used alarm clocks to get up and switch..

The queue was one of the best ideas in a long time, but the 24 hour limit is downright stupid.

If EVE wants a mixed segment of players they need to consider getting rid of this part of the game, it is so heavily biased to people that can log on every day that its potentially going to swing the composition of players..

Since I can speak from the total EVE history, I can just say that many players change their RL situation a lot during 9 years. They get married, they have children, they move residence, and even nationality.. These things are natural, and they should not handicap your characters in EVE. If anyone here think it should, they have seriously not been playing the game long enough to grasp how long term a dedication EVE players eventually get. This training feature is totally counter to that fact, and it would be very important to fix it, if ccp wants the next 5 or 10 years to be good.


Imo as to why the 24hr limit is more about forcing players to log in every few days or so, sure, the queue addition was a great improvement in a sense that it let players who had something to do IRL get to leave the game for a while and still progressed somehow (skill-wise).

But what will happen if say, players can modify their skill queue outside the game, or if CCP removes the 24hrs limit? people would, stop, logging in. I know some people i know would, heck, i'd probably done the same if something's up in RL or a new game is released, i would probably just put a 4 or 5 months (even a year if i want to) long queue and just leave the game and come back later. Even if don't go back to the game right at that time (when the queue's finished) and drops the game for a few months, i would still gain like what? 20mil skillpoints? without ever having to log in at all. I can even just sub a couple more accounts, fill them with enough game time for like 2 years and train whatever i want with it and just never log those accounts until they finished their training.

The point here is that even when someone logged in just to update their accounts, they'll have to do this continously, over the course of their gametime, every few days and with it, they will interact with people on that short time they logged in, check mails, say hi to people and other things. That short times can and very likely will 'escalate' to other things, when they listen to news of what's going on, or when a corp/alliance announced something important that they might be interested to take part on (which they probably won't know if they never logged in), and so on.

"I'd rather have other players get shot by other players than not interacting with others" -CCP Soundwave
Kaylen Vimanis
#47 - 2012-05-26 16:02:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Kaylen Vimanis
Ok this is coming from a player who used to log in at ungodly hours of the day to change a skill, you guys complaining about the 24 hour queue not being long enough don't know how lucky you are. I planned my skills to fit my work routine, and I calculated which skills fit in the times i was and wasn't home, so that I could come back and train some little skills in the time I'm logged on, then put another long skill on.

I don't mean to be condescending here but i feel, with the greatest respect to you, that I need to point out the obvious.

By no means am I master of time management but if you have problems logging in then surely the solution is to shove a lvl 5 skill on bake, and train little small skills up to the 23:55 hour mark before it starts? This way it gives you at least 5 days breathing space plus you can log in between that and queue some more small skills to 23:55 when you do have the time?

Yes you have a life (me too as hard to believe as it is), and yes you have a family but thousands of players cope with this everyday. Skill training before had to be carefully planned, not so much so nowadays it's more casual, but just like you shouldn't be driving around town for fun in the middle of rush hour, you shouldn't be training short skills that end everyday if your life is very hectic.

And if you do miss out on sp, then you miss out. I've missed out on a few million sp overall with sp lost here and there before the queue came into play. Though since the skill queue I have never missed any training, except perhaps when I'm too drunk to remember it ending,

I'm not going to brag about how easy it is, as skill planning still takes a bit of practise to get right, but training long skills is your best solution and picking up small ones within that 24 hour period when you do have time to play, will have to be what you do from now on, don't feel that missing out on a day's training is the end of the world.

The most CCP will increase it is perhaps by a couple days? but it will never be infinite.

I’m a member of the Imperial Senate on a diplomatic mission to Alderaan.
Mag's
Azn Empire
#48 - 2012-05-26 16:48:06 UTC
Snow Burst wrote:
Loius Woo wrote:
Snow Burst wrote:
Xhaiden Ora wrote:
Tippia wrote:
No. You seem to have completely missed mine though.


The point was that if someone has no time to play, making them log in to bump their queue will not make them play.

+1 hit the nail on the head you did


If they have NO time to play, then why should the game be designed for them to benefit from NOT playing?

Tell me how you want the game to give you something for NOT playing.

cuz people can ******* play some of the time just not all the time, such a radical notion isnt it
Then play some of the time and leave the skill queue as it is. Then you can run long skills in between playing. Such a radical notion isn't it.

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
Snow Burst
Caldari State
#49 - 2012-05-26 16:53:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Snow Burst
or no one has to suffer from having a life and a simple thing can be implemented :p just a thought. Not everything HAS to stay as it is like the new inventory people bitching over it as if you need cargo open all the time n its not tht bad just what you get used to. also the whole point of the skill queue is so you can skill up offline... derp

There Is A 90% Chance All Of What You Just Read Is Wrong, Inaccurate Or Just Me Being Controversial In Some Way. Or By Some Chance It's Completely Right In Every Way... At Least To Me :3
Mag's
Azn Empire
#50 - 2012-05-26 17:02:16 UTC
Snow Burst wrote:
or no one has to suffer from having a life and a simple thing can be implemented :p just a thought. Not everything HAS to stay as it is like the new inventory people bitching over it as if you need cargo open all the time n its not tht bad just what you get used to. also the whole point of the skill queue is so you can skill up offline... derp
No one has to suffer now. And no, it's nothing like the new inventory.

The fact that you cannot seemingly organize yourself in RL, is not a fault of the game or it's skill queue. The whole point of the queue, was to remove the need for alarm clock middle of the night stuff, as well as all those little 2, 3, 4 etc hour skills.

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
Snow Burst
Caldari State
#51 - 2012-05-26 17:04:35 UTC
Mag's wrote:
Snow Burst wrote:
or no one has to suffer from having a life and a simple thing can be implemented :p just a thought. Not everything HAS to stay as it is like the new inventory people bitching over it as if you need cargo open all the time n its not tht bad just what you get used to. also the whole point of the skill queue is so you can skill up offline... derp
No one has to suffer now. And no, it's nothing like the new inventory.

The fact that you cannot seemingly organize yourself in RL, is not a fault of the game or it's skill queue. The whole point of the queue, was to remove the need for alarm clock middle of the night stuff, as well as all those little 2, 3, 4 etc hour skills.

you sound like someone who cant accept change lol cuz it doesnt hinder anything but u cant comprehend it

There Is A 90% Chance All Of What You Just Read Is Wrong, Inaccurate Or Just Me Being Controversial In Some Way. Or By Some Chance It's Completely Right In Every Way... At Least To Me :3
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#52 - 2012-05-26 17:06:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Xhaiden Ora wrote:
The point was that if someone has no time to play, making them log in to bump their queue will not make them play.
In other words, you missed my point. It doesn't matter whether they have time to play or not. What matters is that they log in, and occasionally, this will make them stay logged in even when they didn't originally plan to.

Caleb Ayrania wrote:
The point is the demand its making that people log on every day is totally and utterly ******** in a game that has such a long progression curve.
Good thing, then, that no such demand is made. It only demands that you log in within 24h of a skill queue running out, which is a vast improvement from demanding that you log in within 3–5 minutes from any skill finishing no matter when or how often that is.

Quote:
Getting rid of this flawed mechanic would highly improve the game.
What flawed mechanic? The skill queue is working exactly as intended and perfectly solves the issues it was implemented to solve. The 24h time limit is actually fairly generous for that purpose — it could easily be just 12 hours or so and still do the same thing.
Mag's
Azn Empire
#53 - 2012-05-26 17:07:55 UTC
Snow Burst wrote:
Mag's wrote:
Snow Burst wrote:
or no one has to suffer from having a life and a simple thing can be implemented :p just a thought. Not everything HAS to stay as it is like the new inventory people bitching over it as if you need cargo open all the time n its not tht bad just what you get used to. also the whole point of the skill queue is so you can skill up offline... derp
No one has to suffer now. And no, it's nothing like the new inventory.

The fact that you cannot seemingly organize yourself in RL, is not a fault of the game or it's skill queue. The whole point of the queue, was to remove the need for alarm clock middle of the night stuff, as well as all those little 2, 3, 4 etc hour skills.

you sound like someone who cant accept change lol cuz it doesnt hinder anything but u cant comprehend it
No I'm the type that can see no need for this change, because the present queue works fine and is balanced for game play. Blink

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
Snow Burst
Caldari State
#54 - 2012-05-26 17:15:11 UTC
Mag's wrote:
Snow Burst wrote:
Mag's wrote:
Snow Burst wrote:
or no one has to suffer from having a life and a simple thing can be implemented :p just a thought. Not everything HAS to stay as it is like the new inventory people bitching over it as if you need cargo open all the time n its not tht bad just what you get used to. also the whole point of the skill queue is so you can skill up offline... derp
No one has to suffer now. And no, it's nothing like the new inventory.

The fact that you cannot seemingly organize yourself in RL, is not a fault of the game or it's skill queue. The whole point of the queue, was to remove the need for alarm clock middle of the night stuff, as well as all those little 2, 3, 4 etc hour skills.

you sound like someone who cant accept change lol cuz it doesnt hinder anything but u cant comprehend it
No I'm the type that can see no need for this change, because the present queue works fine and is balanced for game play. Blink

and many people want infinite queue so if eve has taught us anything the majority will eventually get what they want. it doesnt effect some people but it does other obv u have the time to log in for 5 mins to change skills or are online everyday anyway

There Is A 90% Chance All Of What You Just Read Is Wrong, Inaccurate Or Just Me Being Controversial In Some Way. Or By Some Chance It's Completely Right In Every Way... At Least To Me :3
Trollin
Perkone
Caldari State
#55 - 2012-05-26 17:40:52 UTC
i dont agree with infinite

but i sure could go for the duration of current subscribed time

We are our own worst enemy.
Mag's
Azn Empire
#56 - 2012-05-26 19:39:33 UTC
Snow Burst wrote:
Mag's wrote:
No I'm the type that can see no need for this change, because the present queue works fine and is balanced for game play. Blink

and many people want infinite queue so if eve has taught us anything the majority will eventually get what they want. it doesnt effect some people but it does other obv u have the time to log in for 5 mins to change skills or are online everyday anyway
Many ≠ majority and no, Eve hasn't taught us that.

I don't have time to play atm, what with full time work, house renovations and a wife and kids. But strangely enough, the queue enables me to continue training my char without much effort at all. Blink

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
Kalzin Maya
#57 - 2012-05-26 19:42:08 UTC
Modification of OP's idea:


How about a planning queue that extends outside of the skill queue: It operates the same except it won't be automatically added to your skill queue. This way I can plan out in advance what I want to do in-game; however, it will keep the 24 hour limit of the current skill queue.

I am not 100% sure why the current skill queue is 24 hours. If you unsubscribe, your skill stop training. I guess it does mean you have to login occasionally, and pay notice to what your skills are currently training, and suffer from temptations to alter your skill training plans.
Mag's
Azn Empire
#58 - 2012-05-26 19:45:09 UTC
Kalzin Maya wrote:
Modification of OP's idea:


How about a planning queue that extends outside of the skill queue:.
Good news, it already does. Set skills upto 23 hours 59 minutes, then add a long queue. Blink

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
Snow Burst
Caldari State
#59 - 2012-05-26 20:36:28 UTC
Mag's wrote:
Kalzin Maya wrote:
Modification of OP's idea:


How about a planning queue that extends outside of the skill queue:.
Good news, it already does. Set skills upto 23 hours 59 minutes, then add a long queue. Blink

win comment lol

There Is A 90% Chance All Of What You Just Read Is Wrong, Inaccurate Or Just Me Being Controversial In Some Way. Or By Some Chance It's Completely Right In Every Way... At Least To Me :3
Caleb Ayrania
TarNec
Invisible Exchequer
#60 - 2012-05-27 07:37:58 UTC
Kaylen Vimanis wrote:
Ok this is coming from a player who used to log in at ungodly hours of the day to change a skill, you guys complaining about the 24 hour queue not being long enough don't know how lucky you are. I planned my skills to fit my work routine, and I calculated which skills fit in the times i was and wasn't home, so that I could come back and train some little skills in the time I'm logged on, then put another long skill on.


I think you have the whole point of argument right there..

Who in ccp and on what grounds would decide that a game should interfere in someones life like that?

I am all for hard core mode, but the skill training and all its stands for is a really bad idea. Not merely from an economical point of view, and even a gaming ecology point of view, but in its lack of shere usefulness and obvious interruption of its players lives.

I accept that ccp wanted to try something very different from the vertical level grind, and this feature have done some part of teaching the playerbase that EVE is different. It would still have the same effect with a reduction in the hassling of players RL time with a much longer, and preferably infinite queue. Real time training is the difference, and its the most elegant way of making a game outlive the end level problem. I often remark to new players that EVE has no end level game, only their personal end goals, and they will always be shifted to something new or higher.

The irony is that many of the people that would want and need this feature change are not around to even reply and comment on this. I would suspect they would use their limit game time in game, and def not on the forums.

If for no other reason ccp should seriously consider this from the mere potential of added revenue, which would make them more money they can use to improve the game for all types of players, casual and hard core.