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Modules damaged without overheating after patch

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AkaiDruiD II
The Ghost of Creuss
#41 - 2012-05-23 03:53:41 UTC
And yes I've disabled and tried the 'no missle trail' option, lag is gone but apparently so is the missle, it apparently is fired and does dmg,

but seems to travel in another dimension

because its not visible at all :P lol
Draydin Warsong
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#42 - 2012-05-23 04:05:05 UTC
CCP Tuxford wrote:
This is likely my fault, I've been tinkering around with the code that applies the damage (I know scary ****) and as a result this might have changed. There has always been a feature where damage is supposed to leak to the modules but it might very well be that we start leaking a bit too early now.

What ships were you guys flying and did you take a lot of hull damage?

nvm some of you said only slight shield damage. I'll take a look tomorrow morning.


Just FYI this is happening to me as well. And its not just stuff equipped on my ships...its everything. Even stuff that has never been equipped and is sitting in my station hangar. If its at all possible it could EVER take take damage...it did. I bought a bunch of guns for a battleship that I cant equip yet sitting in my hangar waiting for the day I have the skills to use them and they were damaged as well. Cost me 1+ million isk to repair my whole hangar. (luckily its mostly noob gear).
CCP Tuxford
C C P
C C P Alliance
#43 - 2012-05-23 09:40:33 UTC
Antisocial Malkavian wrote:
CCP Tuxford wrote:
This is likely my fault, I've been tinkering around with the code that applies the damage (I know scary ****) and as a result this might have changed. There has always been a feature where damage is supposed to leak to the modules but it might very well be that we start leaking a bit too early now.

What ships were you guys flying and did you take a lot of hull damage?

nvm some of you said only slight shield damage. I'll take a look tomorrow morning.


Wait youre saying its partially intentional? IS this meant to be a new ISK sink then?

And how often is it SUPPOSED to be happening? Cause seriously, how shittily made ARE these modules O.o

Or are we getting new Star Trek shields?

Seriously, watch Undiscovered country some time. When the hole is BLOWN THROUGH THE SAUCER someone says theyre down to 25% shields lol


Let me clarify. Every layer leaks a bit of damage to the next layer when it is sufficiently damage. You start taking a little armor damage while still having some shield remaining and you start taking some hull damage even though have some armor left. This is especially obvious when shooting some structures in missions. However a little known fact is that when your structure gets low then your module take damage. However by that time your structure is so low that you likely exploded and there is a chance that the ship exploded before there was chance to damage the modules. So to sum up, yes this is a feature and always has been but you've likely never noticed it.

As to why mess with stuff that isn't broken. Well it may not seem like broken to you guys but it was broken to us. The code was so complex and weird (and not a single comment in sight) that nobody dared touch it. That is usually not a good place to be in because it means if we want to make any changes to it we need to either, hack it in to the current code and hope it works or simply rewrite it in a way we understood. We opted for the latter.

https://gate.eveonline.com/Profile/CCP%20Tuxford/StatusUpdates
Di Mulle
#44 - 2012-05-23 09:47:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Di Mulle
This bug/unintended feature/whatever may be pretty serious for a many... but - that was what I can call a response from a real dev.

Thanks, Tuxford.

And yes, I intended to mean that some other "devs" in fact are not.
<<Insert some waste of screen space here>>
Malice Redeemer
Kenshin.
Fraternity.
#45 - 2012-05-23 09:48:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Malice Redeemer
CCP Tuxford wrote:
Antisocial Malkavian wrote:
CCP Tuxford wrote:
This is likely my fault, I've been tinkering around with the code that applies the damage (I know scary ****) and as a result this might have changed. There has always been a feature where damage is supposed to leak to the modules but it might very well be that we start leaking a bit too early now.

What ships were you guys flying and did you take a lot of hull damage?

nvm some of you said only slight shield damage. I'll take a look tomorrow morning.


Wait youre saying its partially intentional? IS this meant to be a new ISK sink then?

And how often is it SUPPOSED to be happening? Cause seriously, how shittily made ARE these modules O.o

Or are we getting new Star Trek shields?

Seriously, watch Undiscovered country some time. When the hole is BLOWN THROUGH THE SAUCER someone says theyre down to 25% shields lol


Let me clarify. Every layer leaks a bit of damage to the next layer when it is sufficiently damage. You start taking a little armor damage while still having some shield remaining and you start taking some hull damage even though have some armor left. This is especially obvious when shooting some structures in missions. However a little known fact is that when your structure gets low then your module take damage. However by that time your structure is so low that you likely exploded and there is a chance that the ship exploded before there was chance to damage the modules. So to sum up, yes this is a feature and always has been but you've likely never noticed it.

As to why mess with stuff that isn't broken. Well it may not seem like broken to you guys but it was broken to us. The code was so complex and weird (and not a single comment in sight) that nobody dared touch it. That is usually not a good place to be in because it means if we want to make any changes to it we need to either, hack it in to the current code and hope it works or simply rewrite it in a way we understood. We opted for the latter.



And this is what is wrong with this whole patch, you are all trying to do too much at once. Focus and deliver working solutions.
Tobiaz
Spacerats
#46 - 2012-05-23 10:01:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Tobiaz
MotherMoon wrote:
Tinnin Sylph wrote:
Wear and tear on ships equipment is a new feature read the patch notes.


lol, no it's not.


HOLY CRAP!!! Some kind of chocolate-related accident happened to your character?! Shocked

Operation WRITE DOWN ALL THE THINGS!!!  Check out the list at http://bit.ly/wdatt Collecting and compiling all fixes and ideas for EVE. Looking for more editors!
Sascha Valieri
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#47 - 2012-05-23 10:07:43 UTC
CCP Tuxford wrote:
Antisocial Malkavian wrote:
CCP Tuxford wrote:
This is likely my fault, I've been tinkering around with the code that applies the damage (I know scary ****) and as a result this might have changed. There has always been a feature where damage is supposed to leak to the modules but it might very well be that we start leaking a bit too early now.

What ships were you guys flying and did you take a lot of hull damage?

nvm some of you said only slight shield damage. I'll take a look tomorrow morning.


Wait youre saying its partially intentional? IS this meant to be a new ISK sink then?

And how often is it SUPPOSED to be happening? Cause seriously, how shittily made ARE these modules O.o

Or are we getting new Star Trek shields?

Seriously, watch Undiscovered country some time. When the hole is BLOWN THROUGH THE SAUCER someone says theyre down to 25% shields lol


Let me clarify. Every layer leaks a bit of damage to the next layer when it is sufficiently damage. You start taking a little armor damage while still having some shield remaining and you start taking some hull damage even though have some armor left. This is especially obvious when shooting some structures in missions. However a little known fact is that when your structure gets low then your module take damage. However by that time your structure is so low that you likely exploded and there is a chance that the ship exploded before there was chance to damage the modules. So to sum up, yes this is a feature and always has been but you've likely never noticed it.

As to why mess with stuff that isn't broken. Well it may not seem like broken to you guys but it was broken to us. The code was so complex and weird (and not a single comment in sight) that nobody dared touch it. That is usually not a good place to be in because it means if we want to make any changes to it we need to either, hack it in to the current code and hope it works or simply rewrite it in a way we understood. We opted for the latter.

Thank you for clarifing.

I guess you are working on fixing it?

So, last Questions: WHY DIDN'T YOU TEST IT?????? (cant be to hard to grap a Drake and make a lvl 4 mission and check if you get the expected results...

Didn't you guys leaned anything from the last 12 Month? Develop something, send it to Sisi, Test it (or let someone else test it), read feedback... isnt that hard.
Obviously you didn't. And if I take a look at the Inventory Feedback Thread, you are not alone...

Nobody cares if that "update" is Live on 25.05 or 25.06 as long as there are no such big bugs....

TL,DR: Learn to Test your **** and read feedback in the Sisi section!
Tobiaz
Spacerats
#48 - 2012-05-23 10:08:25 UTC
CCP Tuxford wrote:


Let me clarify. Every layer leaks a bit of damage to the next layer when it is sufficiently damage. You start taking a little armor damage while still having some shield remaining and you start taking some hull damage even though have some armor left. This is especially obvious when shooting some structures in missions. However a little known fact is that when your structure gets low then your module take damage. However by that time your structure is so low that you likely exploded and there is a chance that the ship exploded before there was chance to damage the modules. So to sum up, yes this is a feature and always has been but you've likely never noticed it.

As to why mess with stuff that isn't broken. Well it may not seem like broken to you guys but it was broken to us. The code was so complex and weird (and not a single comment in sight) that nobody dared touch it. That is usually not a good place to be in because it means if we want to make any changes to it we need to either, hack it in to the current code and hope it works or simply rewrite it in a way we understood. We opted for the latter.


I trained Tactical Shield Manipulation to 5, because I don't like leaking things P

Anyway, what part of the code-rewrite in the patch notes was this part of then? Was the rewrite meant to simplify the leaking, or was it part for something bigger (like reworking the way bonuses are handled)?

Operation WRITE DOWN ALL THE THINGS!!!  Check out the list at http://bit.ly/wdatt Collecting and compiling all fixes and ideas for EVE. Looking for more editors!
Alison McCarty
Kenter Production Inc.
#49 - 2012-05-23 10:10:55 UTC
CCP Tuxford wrote:
Antisocial Malkavian wrote:
CCP Tuxford wrote:
This is likely my fault, I've been tinkering around with the code that applies the damage (I know scary ****) and as a result this might have changed. There has always been a feature where damage is supposed to leak to the modules but it might very well be that we start leaking a bit too early now.

What ships were you guys flying and did you take a lot of hull damage?

nvm some of you said only slight shield damage. I'll take a look tomorrow morning.


Wait youre saying its partially intentional? IS this meant to be a new ISK sink then?

And how often is it SUPPOSED to be happening? Cause seriously, how shittily made ARE these modules O.o

Or are we getting new Star Trek shields?

Seriously, watch Undiscovered country some time. When the hole is BLOWN THROUGH THE SAUCER someone says theyre down to 25% shields lol


Let me clarify. Every layer leaks a bit of damage to the next layer when it is sufficiently damage. You start taking a little armor damage while still having some shield remaining and you start taking some hull damage even though have some armor left. This is especially obvious when shooting some structures in missions. However a little known fact is that when your structure gets low then your module take damage. However by that time your structure is so low that you likely exploded and there is a chance that the ship exploded before there was chance to damage the modules. So to sum up, yes this is a feature and always has been but you've likely never noticed it.

As to why mess with stuff that isn't broken. Well it may not seem like broken to you guys but it was broken to us. The code was so complex and weird (and not a single comment in sight) that nobody dared touch it. That is usually not a good place to be in because it means if we want to make any changes to it we need to either, hack it in to the current code and hope it works or simply rewrite it in a way we understood. We opted for the latter.


Sorry mate don't take it personal but thats a lot of BS and a lot of words. Our mods NEVER EVER did take damage when we undock/dock er our shields are up. there might be some crazy code that got used in some rare cases but what happens here is completly different.
Why are you guys always playing around with something you have no idea about ? you have some crazy Code in front of you and have no idea what it does. Just DO NOT touch it. Let anyone who have a clue do the Job and then after some testing you make an entry in the patch notes and everything is fine. Project Managment, Testing and Qualitiy Managment anyone ?

Can some real DEV give a statement about it please ? Is it a bug or a feature and where is the entry in the patch notes about it ?
Aiko Hanomaa
Doomheim
#50 - 2012-05-23 10:12:27 UTC
CCP Tuxford wrote:


Let me clarify. (...)

As to why (...)



Thank you Tuxford. This is what a dev-response should look like: Honest, precise, and understandable. The guys who are trying to defend their failure with the new inventory system, by mumbling buzzwords and pretending to not understand user feedback, should take lessons from you.

They might also think about talking to CCP Punkturis, she has at least read some books about UI design, and has shown the ability to actually react to user feedback.
eXistentiA
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#51 - 2012-05-23 10:12:31 UTC
Although a bug, I genuinely really like this feature, keep it in
CCP Tuxford
C C P
C C P Alliance
#52 - 2012-05-23 10:19:47 UTC
Alison McCarty wrote:


Sorry mate don't take it personal but thats a lot of BS and a lot of words. Our mods NEVER EVER did take damage when we undock/dock er our shields are up. there might be some crazy code that got used in some rare cases but what happens here is completly different.
Why are you guys always playing around with something you have no idea about ? you have some crazy Code in front of you and have no idea what it does. Just DO NOT touch it. Let anyone who have a clue do the Job and then after some testing you make an entry in the patch notes and everything is fine. Project Managment, Testing and Qualitiy Managment anyone ?

Can some real DEV give a statement about it please ? Is it a bug or a feature and where is the entry in the patch notes about it ?

relax mate this is definitely a bug. Like I said the code was always there but is now being run when it should not due to a rounding error. It's fixed internally and should be in todays downtime.

https://gate.eveonline.com/Profile/CCP%20Tuxford/StatusUpdates
Sentient Blade
Crisis Atmosphere
Coalition of the Unfortunate
#53 - 2012-05-23 10:29:07 UTC
Not opposed to certain modules taking a (limited) amount of damage over time... but there should be more repair stations about as a result.
Jorma Morkkis
State War Academy
Caldari State
#54 - 2012-05-23 10:32:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Jorma Morkkis
CCP Tuxford wrote:
What ships were you guys flying and did you take a lot of hull damage?


Did a lot of missions after patch with my Vengeance and few with my Harbinger.

Vengeance never got under 90% armor:
- No damage to hull
- All modules and rigs 2,5% damaged

With Harbinger I usually let it go below 65% armor before I start repairer
- No damage to hull
- All low slot modules 2,5% damaged
- Guns, med slots and rigs no damage

And I so wanted this to be new feature. Good isk sink. Small one, but still good.
Nova Fox
Novafox Shipyards
#55 - 2012-05-23 10:56:56 UTC
I have had modules damaged when I escaped a few fights with like 1-2% hull left.

Dust 514's CPM 1 Iron Wolf Saber Eve mail me about Dust 514 issues.
War Kitten
Panda McLegion
#56 - 2012-05-23 11:14:22 UTC
CCP Tuxford wrote:
Alison McCarty wrote:


Sorry mate don't take it personal but thats a lot of BS and a lot of words. Our mods NEVER EVER did take damage when we undock/dock er our shields are up. there might be some crazy code that got used in some rare cases but what happens here is completly different.
Why are you guys always playing around with something you have no idea about ? you have some crazy Code in front of you and have no idea what it does. Just DO NOT touch it. Let anyone who have a clue do the Job and then after some testing you make an entry in the patch notes and everything is fine. Project Managment, Testing and Qualitiy Managment anyone ?

Can some real DEV give a statement about it please ? Is it a bug or a feature and where is the entry in the patch notes about it ?

relax mate this is definitely a bug. Like I said the code was always there but is now being run when it should not due to a rounding error. It's fixed internally and should be in todays downtime.


I normally jump t you guys' defense, being a programmer myself, but you're doing it wrong this time.

I fly my ships into deep structure quite often. I have never, ever, taken module damage because of it. I have never heard of this feature and I troll the forums quite a bit. Just because the code is there and never ran, does not mean you can just dump it on the players all of a sudden and declare it a bug fix.

This is a big change, regardless of whether it *should've* happened in the past or not - it never has happened. It should have been announced as an upcoming change, not snuck in under some bungling attempt to tinker with the code.

Does your fix in today's downtime revert us back to how it has always been, no damage, or does it introduce a new game mechanic that players should be aware of?

Seriously guys - PR fail is running rampant again...

I don't judge people by their race, religion, color, size, age, gender, or ethnicity. I judge them by their grammar, spelling, syntax, punctuation, clarity of expression, and logical consistency.
Sobaan Tali
Caldari Quick Reaction Force
#57 - 2012-05-23 11:27:25 UTC
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
@ CCP Tuxford

My draek got broked

PVE Drake, ran 3 missions with no overheating, no hull or armour damage, pic is of repair quote hope it's helpful


First time I've ever seen rigs take a heat hit. I must admit I'm not sure if I hate this equipment degradation glitch/feature.

"Tomahawks?"

"----in' A, right?"

"Trouble is, those things cost like a million and a half each."

"----, you pay me half that and I'll hump in some c4 and blow the ---- out of it my own damn self."
Jorma Morkkis
State War Academy
Caldari State
#58 - 2012-05-23 11:34:07 UTC
Sobaan Tali wrote:
First time I've ever seen rigs take a heat hit.


The thing is that overheating isn't needed currently for this to happen.
Baldrik DeLeNoir
Beltane Legion
#59 - 2012-05-23 11:47:31 UTC
I have to say, Mr Tuxford owned up to his error, identified offending code and fixed in 24 hrs (if fixed). From my experience of Game programmers, this is quite exceptional behavior. The fact that the code has sat around for this long and no-one could be bothered to sort it out once and for all is more typical.Blink
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor
#60 - 2012-05-23 11:53:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Mara Rinn
War Kitten wrote:
CCP Tuxford wrote:
relax mate this is definitely a bug. Like I said the code was always there but is now being run when it should not due to a rounding error. It's fixed internally and should be in todays downtime.


I have never heard of this feature and I troll the forums quite a bit. Just because the code is there and never ran, does not mean you can just dump it on the players all of a sudden and declare it a bug fix.


Did you read the part where CCP Tuxford wrote "relax mate this is definitely a bug"? This code (bleeding damage when overheating) has been there since 2007. It's supposed to be there, it's supposed to bleed damage. What it's not supposed to do is bleed damage when no overheating is taking place.

Relax. It's a bug, he's already fixed it.

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