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Shadows of the Feceradtion betrays not only their own Empire but the Republic aswell
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Silas Vitalia
Doomheim
#21 - 2012-05-22 01:26:03 UTC
Sylux Raynes wrote:

What you don't seem to understand is that goals are being accomplished, perhaps not as readily as we'd prefer them to and certainly not as quickly as if this war were being fought without the presence of self-proclaimed immortals, but they are being accomplished nonetheless. Those of us that fight to secure our borders and defend them from further incursion are doing all we can to bring a stalemate to the war(s) and security for those on the planets within.



Self-Imposed shackles, namely those worn by capsuleers, are the most amusing of all.

Sabik now, Sabik forever
Istvaan Shogaatsu
Guiding Hand Social Club
#22 - 2012-05-22 01:38:19 UTC
Sylux Raynes wrote:
Those of us that fight to secure our borders and defend them from further incursion are doing all we can to bring a stalemate to the war(s) and security for those on the planets within.


Good lord, you are indoctrinated. Here, let me pull up a few snippets from articles I read while browsing assorted planet news.

Black Rise Blogger wrote:
Another day, another rain of podder ship fragments. A Raven class piloted by some ignorant **** saw fit to warp into low orbit of our fair planet while pursued by our star system's welcoming committee, who predictably scored a wealth of modules from the wreckage that didn't plummet to our fair planet. As a result of these new developments, Reitsato Prime boasts five new 50-kilometre craters, and a 1200-kilometre radiation exclusion zone due to the still-live battleship reactor that landed in our primary farming sectors, killing thousands. **** you, podders.


Mushikegi Weekly Knowledge wrote:
Please aid us. Our capsuleer-promised order is breaking down. Both factions are now heavily armed and our government is powerless to stop the fighting, as most of the local police have chosen sides too. Each claim that a single capsuleer ship can turn the tide to their side. They keep sending up signals but all we get is random laser fire against our population centers!


Yeaaaaaaah, something tells me we're not bringing them much security.
Los Muertas
HDYLTA
#23 - 2012-05-22 04:08:03 UTC
It would appear that this alliance was short lived at best, the minute Matari warriors said "No" to this treaty we engaged Kamlea heavily and ground both Shadows and Wolfsbrigade into the ground.

Thesis on Tribal Traditionalism
Lyn Farel
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#24 - 2012-05-22 11:16:20 UTC
Sylux Raynes wrote:
I would have to contest your viewpoint, Captain Shogaatsu. The planets (and their inhabitants) are hardly inconsequential or useless and when the systems change occupancy, the planets come under the leadership (and occupancy) of the occupying power.

You also may wish to recall the Emergency Militia Powers Act which is actually responsible for the ongoing war between capsuleers loyal to their respective empires. It may not appear like much is being accomplished from the space side of things, but on the planets in those relevant systems, the constant changes in occupancy do matter and I imagine those under those conditions live very difficult lives.


Do not confuse the people really responsible for this wasteful war. CONCORD were merely the ones enabling the Militia Emergency Power Act. The ones that really wanted that war were the four nations themselves. The only reason that happened is because they still hold a little power in CONCORD administration. The Militia Power Act is nothing else than a political tool, and your own Empire was involved in its creation.

Now the only consequences of this war is obviously a conventional exodus syndrome where the populations of the targeted areas have probably been emigrating to the core worlds under the stress of the war. The current state of the militias implies that instead of bringing wealth through war trading in the warzones, it is actually difficult to tell if wealth really flows in these areas since even the militias mainly act like pirates under the flag themselves. The only steady source of income for these systems is located in the sparse militia controlled markets, supplied for their own pilots. What the war is doing is actually to transform the region into military battlefields, much like it is already the case in Black Rise that never had a real amount of civilian population. Migrating influxes implies that border high sec zones are probably directly suffering economically.

Some already dare to say here and there that their own leaders are slowly hemorraging the expendable limbs of their nations.
Sylux Raynes
Doomheim
#25 - 2012-05-22 11:39:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Sylux Raynes
Istvaan Shogaatsu wrote:
Yeaaaaaaah, something tells me we're not bringing them much security.


All those snippets prove is that because of the continued back-and-forth, the planets remain unstable. My point was that if we could focus on defending our own borders and stop invading into other's the constant back-and-forth would stop and that would help with security and infrastructure on those planets. Also, this has absolutely nothing to do with "indoctrination," it's my own personal viewpoint.

Lyn Farel wrote:
Do not confuse the people really responsible for this wasteful war. CONCORD were merely the ones enabling the Militia Emergency Power Act. The ones that really wanted that war were the four nations themselves. The only reason that happened is because they still hold a little power in CONCORD administration. The Militia Power Act is nothing else than a political tool, and your own Empire was involved in its creation.


I will not deny that the major nations were behind EMPA, nor will I deny that the war is something all sides want(ed) at some point. What I am saying is that we have the power, as the ones fighting the war(s), to bring them to a stand still and cease the turmoil caused by them.

Silas Vitalia wrote:
Self-Imposed shackles, namely those worn by capsuleers, are the most amusing of all.


What you call 'shackles,' I call conviction.
Ava Starfire
Khushakor Clan
#26 - 2012-05-22 13:59:52 UTC
Some people try so, so hard to be all "edgy and raw".

It's cute, really.

"There is no strength in numbers; have no such misconception." -Jayka Vofur, "Warfare in the North"
Lyn Farel
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#27 - 2012-05-22 14:56:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Lyn Farel
Sylux Raynes wrote:


Lyn Farel wrote:
Do not confuse the people really responsible for this wasteful war. CONCORD were merely the ones enabling the Militia Emergency Power Act. The ones that really wanted that war were the four nations themselves. The only reason that happened is because they still hold a little power in CONCORD administration. The Militia Power Act is nothing else than a political tool, and your own Empire was involved in its creation.


I will not deny that the major nations were behind EMPA, nor will I deny that the war is something all sides want(ed) at some point. What I am saying is that we have the power, as the ones fighting the war(s), to bring them to a stand still and cease the turmoil caused by them.


Capsuleers have the raw power, but real power lies in the money they are promised to fight in this war. You will get better results by convincing each governement or even better, their populations, than convincing militia capsuleers to boicott that war.
Sylux Raynes
Doomheim
#28 - 2012-05-22 15:41:24 UTC
Lyn Farel wrote:
Sylux Raynes wrote:


Lyn Farel wrote:
Do not confuse the people really responsible for this wasteful war. CONCORD were merely the ones enabling the Militia Emergency Power Act. The ones that really wanted that war were the four nations themselves. The only reason that happened is because they still hold a little power in CONCORD administration. The Militia Power Act is nothing else than a political tool, and your own Empire was involved in its creation.


I will not deny that the major nations were behind EMPA, nor will I deny that the war is something all sides want(ed) at some point. What I am saying is that we have the power, as the ones fighting the war(s), to bring them to a stand still and cease the turmoil caused by them.


Capsuleers have the raw power, but real power lies in the money they are promised to fight in this war. You will get better results by convincing each governement or even better, their populations, than convincing militia capsuleers to boicott that war.


You misunderstand.

I am not vain enough to believe myself capable of convincing anyone; capsuleer, nation or otherwise, to bring these wars to a close. Instead, I do all that I am able to live according to my convictions, to let my actions reflect my words and to explain why I do so when asked.

Which is all I have done in this thread.
AsheRaven
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#29 - 2012-05-22 15:44:31 UTC
Sylux Raynes wrote:


I will not deny that the major nations were behind EMPA, nor will I deny that the war is something all sides want(ed) at some point. What I am saying is that we have the power, as the ones fighting the war(s), to bring them to a stand still and cease the turmoil caused by them.

Silas Vitalia wrote:
Self-Imposed shackles, namely those worn by capsuleers, are the most amusing of all.


What you call 'shackles,' I call conviction.


Then I'll live by my new found conviction and live off the opportunity war has to offer. What possible motivation would I have to cease up the cogs of war?
Seriphyn Inhonores
Elusenian Cooperative
#30 - 2012-05-22 15:58:55 UTC
I speak with no authority, but from my understanding, the Villore Accords are not entirely pleased with SOTF's actions.
Repentence Tyrathlion
Tyrathlion Interstellar
#31 - 2012-05-22 16:15:13 UTC
Istvaan Shogaatsu wrote:
In case you master strategists haven't noticed, you're fighting over a back yard of largely unwanted systems seen as disposable enough by the leaders of your nations to let capsuleers run rough-shod over them. Said systems have traded hands multiple times, with no bearing on New Eden at large, no victory or defeat for any of the participant empires, and no long-term strategic or tactical goals met.

An utterly meaningless war fought over utterly useless systems. And you brag about flipping the ownership flag on a handful of those? Psh. Goonswarm managed to besiege Jita and put a big dent in the State's economy - you'll have to top them if this "war" is to go anywhere.


How bizarre. I'm agreeing with a man that regularly demonstrates himself to be a fundamental opposite to myself.

The Empyrean war will not end. The Empire is not on the verge of collapse. Nobody will ever achieve victory. That's the whole point. It keeps the capsuleer population out of trouble, it keeps the various manufacturing industries afloat, and it does a nice job of maintaining cultural boundaries. Nothing like the threat of enemies at the gate to discourage dissent from the common people.

If you really need proof that the war is a sham, I suggest you consider the fact that the Caldari 'won' a few years ago by occupying the entirety of the war zone. Did it change anything long term? F*** no.
Morwen Lagann
Tyrathlion Interstellar
#32 - 2012-05-22 16:46:53 UTC
Istvaan Shogaatsu wrote:
What grabs my attention is the utter pointlessness of this warfare. More so however, my attention is drawn to the fact that no-one else seems to see what I see. What lasting goals have been achieved with this constant to-and-fro trading of system ownership?


You're not as alone as you think, Istvaan.

Morwen Lagann

CEO, Tyrathlion Interstellar

Coordinator, Arataka Research Consortium

Owner, The Golden Masque
Nick Bete
Highsec Haulers Inc.
#33 - 2012-05-22 17:33:15 UTC
Why do you even care Shogaatsu? Don't you have some corporate wallet to drain or, assets to steal somewhere?
Istvaan Shogaatsu
Guiding Hand Social Club
#34 - 2012-05-22 21:36:46 UTC
I care because I know how to prosecute a war, and if I were in charge of the State's efforts, Luminaire wouldn't exist anymore, and the Gallente would be an endangered species, viewable only in a selection of Amarr zoos.

Oh, and draining wallets and stealing assets isn't the most profitable method of extracting wealth from others any longer. We've moved on to more efficient, less time-intensive means.
AsheRaven
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#35 - 2012-05-22 21:46:49 UTC  |  Edited by: AsheRaven
Repentence Tyrathlion wrote:
If you really need proof that the war is a sham, I suggest you consider the fact that the Caldari 'won' a few years ago by occupying the entirety of the war zone. Did it change anything long term? F*** no.


You're right. It just made more bitterness to profit from. Seriously why do you care about the squabbles of the unenlightened? We are immortal now, let the petty and the limited fight amongst themselves. Better to reap the profit of the spill of blood than to languish in pointless dogmatic diplomacy.
Ans Blix
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#36 - 2012-05-22 22:56:49 UTC
While i have the utmost respect for the Pilots and Commanders of the SOTF, i cannot in good faith support their actions.

I would like to assure our Minmatar Brethren that the actions of the SOTF were of their own accord. The do not represent the Federal Defence Union as a whole in any way. You can understand that they are a sub unit within an organisation within the Federal Milita.

From the unofficial chatter within the Villore Accords, i have seen many condemnations of SOTF's alignment. As an ex-SOTF Pilot, i am sadden to hear this news

Ans Blix Director - Eleutherian Guard [EL-G] Alliance Diplomat - Villore Accords [GMVA]

Silence is a best friend that never betrays
Malcolm Khross
Doomheim
#37 - 2012-05-23 03:26:03 UTC
After reviewing the information presented here, the Honor Guard believes the SOTF have engaged in acts of piracy and would encourage all Amarr militia pilots to treat them as pirates. Neither the Empire nor the State needs the assistance of pirates and such behavior should be dealt with swiftly and mercilessly.

Furthermore, I am personally shamed that WBR once hailed from the State and now condones acts of piracy in this manner. The lack of official response from WBR denouncing these allegations compounds my concern.

~Malcolm Khross
John Revenent
Revenent Defence Corperation
Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
#38 - 2012-05-23 04:39:41 UTC
Malcolm Khross wrote:
Furthermore, I am personally shamed that WBR once hailed from the State and now condones acts of piracy in this manner. The lack of official response from WBR denouncing these allegations compounds my concern.


Yes. What a surprise, WBR pirates no..

Ishukone Loyalist - Private Contractor

"Holding on to anger is like grasping a hot coal with the intent of throwing it at someone else; you are the one who gets burned."
Lyn Farel
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#39 - 2012-05-23 10:20:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Lyn Farel
I admit that I am surprised. People usually put their fingers into their hears when someone dares to tell them that militias are full of outlaws, pirates and parasites. I guess one of them had yet to side with the enemy for people to actually care ?
Rodj Blake
PIE Inc.
Khimi Harar
#40 - 2012-05-23 11:38:32 UTC
Istvaan Shogaatsu wrote:


Oh, and draining wallets and stealing assets isn't the most profitable method of extracting wealth from others any longer. We've moved on to more efficient, less time-intensive means.


Unless the assets in question are dairy products.

Dolce et decorum est pro Imperium mori