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Missile trails kill my framerate and what is that sound???

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NAM TRON
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#21 - 2012-05-22 18:17:16 UTC
CCP Choloepus wrote:
Sellendis wrote:
If you turn missile effects off, you dont even see who is shooting at you, or if you are being shot at in the first place.
If you turn GPU particles off, there are no missile trails, just hit effect, and unless you are zoomed in to the ship you are not likely to notice them.

So as always visibility suffers and we get a big performance hit. Even with full effects if you zoom out your ship, you cant see the missiles flying at anything at all.
So we trade bad visibility, big performance hits and crappy missile hit sound (more like a fart really) for a upgrade that most of us will turn off...sadly.


On this point, we'll be adding a cheap booster/flare effect to missiles to increase visibility when missile trails are disabled.

In terms of performance, the GPU particles themselves incur a fairly constant GPU overhead while any of them are alive, irrespective of number of missiles in flight etc. CPU-side, that does seem like a larger hit than we've seen internally, so we'll look into that.

Thanks for the feedback, all.



Is it possible to give us the option to have the previous missile effect behavior and graphics? Since after all it is only a client side effect and nothing was changed server side according to the dev blogs. Because this is going to really hurt during fleet battles, we're talking about a couple hundred or more ships here firing missiles.
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
#22 - 2012-05-22 18:35:24 UTC
CCP Choloepus wrote:
Ouch, that's a fairly nasty hit. Could you post a quick breakdown of your hardware specs?



Oh oh....


So does this mean my WinXP single core system with 1GB that I built when I started playing in 2006 is going to have a hard time?

Yeah yeah I need an upgrade. But that costs money.


Anyone know some old rich women looking for a good time? Lol

Bring back DEEEEP Space!
Markus Reese
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#23 - 2012-05-22 18:43:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Markus Reese
Zyress wrote:
Ituhata Saken wrote:
I noticed some people complaining about a drop from 150fps down to 60. I find it amazing people can even notice these things (unless they are watching an fps monitor), it wasn't long ago we were watching movies at 24fps. I'm pretty sure either the eye or the brain can't really comprehend it.

EDIT: come to think of it, aren't most monitors running on 60Hz anyway, so anything over is a waste?


Yeah I don't think the human eye can discern any difference once the frame rate is 30 or more per second, but I suppose in a large fleet battle it may get slower


Usually I don't double quote, but both are important. First off the frequency is noticable to the human eye as flicker. 60hz is usually the limit because beyond 60 cycles per second, the brain cannot process. Some people like myself can which is why I need faster than 60hz (I run 75hz monitors) else I get headaches. The same of course goes for your fps. From 30 to 60, you will still notice difference, it will become smoother, or more clear is the best way I can think of it. the 24 fps is when our eyes will blend images into eachother and interperate as motion.

Beyond 60, you will pretty much never notice. Anybody who complains about a 150 to 60 drop is only doing so because of what the readout says. Odds of them noticing without it being told to them is near impossible.

Personal info, I was running the missiles without any noticable loss on singularity. Haven't been able to log into tq yet, but but 4670 was able to keep up fine. It is a 1ghz saphire, so my guess is ram has alot to do with it. Being an older card, there probably are some shader stuff it isnt processing or what not.

To quote Lfod Shi

The ratting itself is PvE. Getting away with it is PvP.
Spacing Cowboy
Perkone
Caldari State
#24 - 2012-05-22 19:07:39 UTC
same here, with updated drivers , nuked fps from a stable 60 to 13 when shooting "tha missile's"
Jim Bond
Malevelon Roe Industries
Convocation of Empyreans
#25 - 2012-05-22 19:39:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Jim Bond
CCP Choloepus wrote:
Sellendis wrote:
If you turn missile effects off, you dont even see who is shooting at you, or if you are being shot at in the first place.
If you turn GPU particles off, there are no missile trails, just hit effect, and unless you are zoomed in to the ship you are not likely to notice them.

So as always visibility suffers and we get a big performance hit. Even with full effects if you zoom out your ship, you cant see the missiles flying at anything at all.
So we trade bad visibility, big performance hits and crappy missile hit sound (more like a fart really) for a upgrade that most of us will turn off...sadly.


On this point, we'll be adding a cheap booster/flare effect to missiles to increase visibility when missile trails are disabled.

In terms of performance, the GPU particles themselves incur a fairly constant GPU overhead while any of them are alive, irrespective of number of missiles in flight etc. CPU-side, that does seem like a larger hit than we've seen internally, so we'll look into that.

Thanks for the feedback, all.



Is it possible to add a flare effect with the missile trails are turned on?


I have 2 accounts, with 2 tengus, and when I watch the other tengu firing its missiles I find it hard to see which target they are firing at and also as the missiles get further away, its hard to see the missile/trails.

With Lasers and Hybrid guns, you can see ships not on your account firing their guns and which target they are shooting at, but cant really see missiles further than 10km away atm as the trails are hard to see, wheras with the previous effects you could.
Ziranda Hakuli
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#26 - 2012-05-22 19:44:19 UTC
Well i guess its time to check the video card drivers and see if if there are any updates. usually this solves the problem. spend a little time updating your machine.

Common Sense folks
Franz7657
DreddNaut
#27 - 2012-05-22 20:00:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Franz7657
i use the lastest drivers now, the 12.4 A
same problem than the 12.4 just before

waiting on the 12.5 now to see if the problem is solved
Sellendis
The Ares project
#28 - 2012-05-22 20:23:13 UTC
@CCP Choloepus
How about removing missile smoke, and adding just flare effect as missile engine light. So we remove one of the biggest performance impact issues.
Then have fun with making missile in space visible while un-zoomed, that coincidentally can be fixed by removing engine smoke and adding the mentioned above, flare?
Vyl Vit
#29 - 2012-05-22 20:42:13 UTC
Lfod Shi wrote:
Thanks! Glad I posted.

I can live with the sounds. :)

You're just happy you were noticed! Don't get soft, son!!

Paradise is like where you are right now, only much, much better.
adam smash
Department of Gub'nent Welfare
Harkonnen Federation
#30 - 2012-05-22 20:43:06 UTC
Ituhata Saken wrote:
I noticed some people complaining about a drop from 150fps down to 60. I find it amazing people can even notice these things (unless they are watching an fps monitor), it wasn't long ago we were watching movies at 24fps. I'm pretty sure either the eye or the brain can't really comprehend it.

EDIT: come to think of it, aren't most monitors running on 60Hz anyway, so anything over is a waste?


Come to think of it, movies have motion blur and eve does not.

O look... you so smart!

IDK about you pretty sure tv (thus movies on tv) still ~ 24fps... fail again...
Vyl Vit
#31 - 2012-05-22 20:45:14 UTC
Markus Reese wrote:
...beyond 60 cycles per second, the brain cannot process. Some people like myself can which is why I need faster than 60hz (I run 75hz monitors) else I get headaches...

Man...you need to be wearing shades when you play. Uh...you can't borrow mine.

Paradise is like where you are right now, only much, much better.
Comet Catcher
Special little Snowflakes
#32 - 2012-05-22 20:47:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Comet Catcher
Firing missiles turned my screen into a complete white noise mess with around 1-3 FPS, had to abort and dock to save my ship.
The hell is going on?

C2D E6300
NV 9600GT 512MB
XP SP3

Edit: trying to update drivers to max right now, even though mine were only a few weeks old.

Edit2: Updating the drivers to 301.24 did work (you should probably tell people to do this in the patchnotes), but i'm having huge FPS drops right now

Edit3: The new missiles really do look awesome, though. Edit3b: REALLY REALLY AWESOME. Man, this is like day and night.
AFK Hauler
State War Academy
#33 - 2012-05-22 20:52:53 UTC
Lfod Shi wrote:
Thanks! Glad I posted.

I can live with the sounds. :)





EVE has sound?
Ituhata Saken
Killboard Padding Services
#34 - 2012-05-22 21:02:24 UTC
adam smash wrote:
Ituhata Saken wrote:
I noticed some people complaining about a drop from 150fps down to 60. I find it amazing people can even notice these things (unless they are watching an fps monitor), it wasn't long ago we were watching movies at 24fps. I'm pretty sure either the eye or the brain can't really comprehend it.

EDIT: come to think of it, aren't most monitors running on 60Hz anyway, so anything over is a waste?


Come to think of it, movies have motion blur and eve does not.

O look... you so smart!

IDK about you pretty sure tv (thus movies on tv) still ~ 24fps... fail again...


You seem angry. But thanks for the correction, it only further illustrates my point.

So close...
Vhan
Scalebane Syndicate
#35 - 2012-05-22 21:16:52 UTC
Ituhata Saken wrote:
I noticed some people complaining about a drop from 150fps down to 60. I find it amazing people can even notice these things (unless they are watching an fps monitor), it wasn't long ago we were watching movies at 24fps. I'm pretty sure either the eye or the brain can't really comprehend it.

EDIT: come to think of it, aren't most monitors running on 60Hz anyway, so anything over is a waste?


Higher frame rates help with camera panning. Also, while the frame rate may be constant, your eyes don't sample the same frequency the computer runs at.

You can notice issues (jitters, flashes, and missing frames) at lower frame rates that are higher than 24fps. This is a common issue with first person shooters in multiplayer. I find issues with playing first person shooters that are lower than 80fps, although much of that is related to network issues and rendering.

In Eve, it's not a twitch issue, since locking and firing at ships is a simplified simulation compared to first person shooters. It should be perfectly playable at 60fps, however lower than that I have problems with camera panning/rotation that drops the frame rate.
Sarah Schneider
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#36 - 2012-05-22 21:41:49 UTC
It's kinda weird that newer PC setup has more fps drop than older PCs like mine, i have around 5-10 fps drop with my old dualcore AMD setup with GeForce 9500, while on newer specs they seems to eat a lot more fps.

"I'd rather have other players get shot by other players than not interacting with others" -CCP Soundwave
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#37 - 2012-05-22 21:43:59 UTC
There are times when it helps to reload the drivers even if there has not been an update. Strange but true.

Whenever I check video drivers I also make sure my direct X stuff is up to date.

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.
Comet Catcher
Special little Snowflakes
#38 - 2012-05-22 21:49:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Comet Catcher
Ranger 1 wrote:
There are times when it helps to reload the drivers even if there has not been an update. Strange but true.

Whenever I check video drivers I also make sure my direct X stuff is up to date.


Nah it was definitely the driver version.

I ALWAYS remove all the remains of the old drivers with tools like driversweeper and such and i can confirm that NV 28x.xx drivers did not work with the new missiles.
Aileen Saya
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#39 - 2012-05-22 22:49:45 UTC
Lucky you, you can at least see the missile trails.

No matter if I turn them on or off, there is no effect apart from the sound. DX9 (Radeon X1900XT) seems not to be enough ;)
Doc Severide
Doomheim
#40 - 2012-05-22 23:21:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Doc Severide
I thought I'd be different and made the mistake of buying 2 ATI 5770's in Feb 2011. Everytrhing was fine until Cruicible came out and then I had nothing but problems. I finally chucked them last week and bought 2 560Ti's and besides having much faster cards, ALL my problems have disappeared.
Now I have a 2700K with 2 580's, a 2600K with 2 570's, an I7 920 with 2 560Ti's, an Asus G73 Laptop with Nvidia Graphics and all is beautiful....ATI/AMD = Krap...