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Rokh Or Raven

Author
Ivy Romanova
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#21 - 2012-05-22 12:49:09 UTC
Tor Gungnir wrote:
Boomhaur wrote:
It takes a lot longer to train a Raven up properly than a Drake


Naturally. However, it takes a lot less time to train for a Raven than most Battleships.


so bascially is
stay in the smaller ships , and wait till I have several mil worth of the combat skills related to the ship i want to fly

▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬ஜ۩۞۩ஜ▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬ DAMN THIS    SIGNATURE    IS FANCY ▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬ஜ۩۞۩ஜ▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬

Otrebla Utrigas
Iberians
#22 - 2012-05-22 12:54:03 UTC
Ivy Romanova wrote:
Tor Gungnir wrote:
Boomhaur wrote:
It takes a lot longer to train a Raven up properly than a Drake


Naturally. However, it takes a lot less time to train for a Raven than most Battleships.


so bascially is
stay in the smaller ships , and wait till I have several mil worth of the combat skills related to the ship i want to fly


Not really. with good fit skills (core competency certificates) you can fit a standard Raven to fly most L4 in 2 days skill worth, with just two buttons:
- FIRE ZE MIZZILES!!!!
- BOOOSTT ZAT SHILDS!!!

The income boost is quite good and the raven will pay itself in few days.

Also, follow the EVE survival guides to the letter. You should never lose a ship if you do.
Tor Gungnir
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#23 - 2012-05-22 12:54:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Tor Gungnir
Ivy Romanova wrote:
Tor Gungnir wrote:
Boomhaur wrote:
It takes a lot longer to train a Raven up properly than a Drake


Naturally. However, it takes a lot less time to train for a Raven than most Battleships.


so bascially is
stay in the smaller ships , and wait till I have several mil worth of the combat skills related to the ship i want to fly


Pretty much, yeah. Train a lot of the universal skills such as those that increase Capacitor, Shield, Armor, CPU/PowerGrid etc etc. Meanwhile you pick up stuff like Medium Turrets or Heavy Missiles and fly a Cruiser/Battlecruiser as you skill up. The Raven, however, is a lot less skill demanding to "fly properly".

In any case, losing a Cruiser because you were in over your head is a lot less painful than losing a Battleship!

Space. It seems to go on and on forever. But then you get to the end and a gorilla starts throwing barrels at you.

Shaen Vesuvius
Redcoats
#24 - 2012-05-22 13:07:10 UTC
If you want isk, don't do lvl 4's untill you can run them efficiently. It will take training time to do so.

Atm I'd say you are better off running lvl 3's quickly rather than chewing through an ardious lvl4. There are probably a few things you can do to up your current income without switching to a BS running lvl 4's. (loot, salvage, blitz missions, LP etc)

Also, you can pvp in a Drake, probably better than in a Raven.

Last also, most skills used to fly a Drake can be used to fly a .....TENGU.

If you want to PvP, Gallente armor tanked ships won't be your first choice anyway. It will be shield tanked Minmatar. but that's far into your future so don't worry about it. Just enjoy the game.
Maeltstome
Ten Thousand Days
#25 - 2012-05-22 13:21:53 UTC
[Rokh, Blasters]

Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Void L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Void L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Void L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Void L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Void L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Void L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Void L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Void L

Prototype 100MN MicroWarpdrive I
Warp Disruptor II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Large Shield Extender II
Large Shield Extender II

Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Damage Control II
Power Diagnostic System II

Large Core Defense Field Extender I
Large Core Defense Field Extender I
Large Core Defense Field Extender I


Hammerhead II x5


150k EHP, 900-1000 Guns DPS, 150 drone dps (ECM drones probably better..). 10k Optimal on void.

People who slate the rokh have never flown it with decent skills. Raven lovers hate the rock... but i can tell you from experience that it rips holes in people just as effectively as a megathron... with less reliance on drone DPS.

For PVE the raven is better though... cause you just press f1 and go afk.
Ivy Romanova
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#26 - 2012-05-22 13:23:49 UTC
GEES!
what do I DOOoooooo
WHAT TO Doooooo

▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬ஜ۩۞۩ஜ▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬ DAMN THIS    SIGNATURE    IS FANCY ▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬ஜ۩۞۩ஜ▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬

Sub Chunker
Monkey Business Machines
The Council of Yggdrasil
#27 - 2012-05-22 13:40:14 UTC
I'm in the same boat (literally a drake).

All the advice I've received is up to this point is pretty consistent. Take your time. Skill up before moving into a battleship.

Also, keep in mind that CCP is in the process of re-balancing the ships (starting with frigates in the upcoming Inferno update). Also they are changing the skill progression to make the hierarchy of ships make more sense (see the inferno relase notes).

These changes could really impact where you find yourself (and are another strong argument to stay in a battlecruiser for the time being).

Chunk by chunk.

Maeltstome
Ten Thousand Days
#28 - 2012-05-22 13:42:06 UTC
If you want to PVE go with the raven skill tree.

All i can say is though: Every caldari i know who decided to PVP has hated missiles (the tengu and drake are fun, but cant do everything) and wished they had trained blasters so they could fly gallente.

So it's really up to what your future holds.
Daniel Plain
Doomheim
#29 - 2012-05-22 13:46:15 UTC
i remember having the same problem as you. what i ended up doing is get decent drake skills and pimping a drake with faction launchers and BCUs for fast lvl3 grinding. then i dropped 2mil SP into drone skills to get T2 light drones with ~80dps and after that skilled gunnery and amarr ships to fly harbinger and eventually nightmare. once you have some cash reserves from lvl3s, you can switch it up a little and try exploration/wormhole diving. the drake excels at soloing low class wormholes and is not as painful to lose when you get ganked.

I should buy an Ishtar.

Sine DeusNomine
Chimera Guardians
#30 - 2012-05-22 14:34:46 UTC
Okay really I would put the Rohk on the back burner. because it is more skill intensive then some missle boats. If you do not have the skills or the guns your going to be hurting in the rohk.

Scorpion Navy Issue is the best BS to use with low skills. you are going to out DPS a raven any day with it because you can fit BCU accross the bottom and shield tank the mid slots. Where on a raven you have to sacrafice the BCU's for cap rechargers.

So after you get comfortable at doing lvl 4s in your scorpion navy issue. then you can either choose to keep training your shielding skills and missle skills to get well enough where you will not loose your spendy CNI. Trust me CNI are very easily lost if you do not have the ability to tank it well enough so that means all shielding skills to lvl 4 if not 5. and get tech 2 cruise launcher and all related missle skills at least up to lvl 4 if not 5. before you get in your CNI. you can easily put out 400-500 DPS with a scorpion navy issue at low lvl skills.

Or if you find you do not like running a cruise missle boat and feel you want insta damage you can then start making your long haul to the Rohk. you will probably need to spend 2 months training skills with it if not a little longer before you can start doing lvl 4s. 5 months before it becomes really really good at lvl 4s.

But really the Scorpion Navy Issue is probably the best Low skill lvl 4 mission boat out there.

Be careful on mission like world's collide, Dread Pirate, blockade. They hit you hard. Worlds collide can be the worst because they scram you and once that happens you can be pretty sell screwed if you are not skilled enough to where you can tank alot.
Yabba Addict
Perkone
Caldari State
#31 - 2012-05-22 15:14:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Yabba Addict
Sine DeusNomine wrote:
Okay really I would put the Rohk on the back burner. because it is more skill intensive then some missle boats. If you do not have the skills or the guns your going to be hurting in the rohk.

Scorpion Navy Issue is the best BS to use with low skills. you are going to out DPS a raven any day with it because you can fit BCU accross the bottom and shield tank the mid slots. Where on a raven you have to sacrafice the BCU's for cap rechargers.



Looks like you haven't heard of the rigor raven then.
[Raven, Rigor Raven]
Damage Control II
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II

Heavy Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 800
Thermic Dissipation Field II
Dread Guristas X-Large Shield Booster
Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron
EM Ward Field II
EM Ward Field II

'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I, Mjolnir Cruise Missile
'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I, Mjolnir Cruise Missile
'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I, Mjolnir Cruise Missile
'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I, Mjolnir Cruise Missile
'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I, Mjolnir Cruise Missile
'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I, Mjolnir Cruise Missile
Small Tractor Beam I
Drone Link Augmentor I

Large Warhead Rigor Catalyst I
Large Warhead Rigor Catalyst I
Large Anti-Thermal Screen Reinforcer I


Hornet II x5
Vespa II x5

This was the fit i used to use, the faction booster isn't a must and the thermal rig was because caldari space, where so many rats secondary damage type was therm.


I've just started using the rokh for pve in cal space and an apoc for the drone/sansha missions, before that was using the raven. The rokh IS better than then raven IF you are a high skilled pilot. It's decent against guristas, good against serp. Then you get the mercs and just laugh as you refit into a blaster setup. But for low skills I'd say raven...boring as hell, but alot easier
Ivy Romanova
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#32 - 2012-05-22 15:15:03 UTC
Sine DeusNomine wrote:
Okay really I would put the Rohk on the back burner. because it is more skill intensive then some missle boats. If you do not have the skills or the guns your going to be hurting in the rohk.

Scorpion Navy Issue is the best BS to use with low skills. you are going to out DPS a raven any day with it because you can fit BCU accross the bottom and shield tank the mid slots. Where on a raven you have to sacrafice the BCU's for cap rechargers.

So after you get comfortable at doing lvl 4s in your scorpion navy issue. then you can either choose to keep training your shielding skills and missle skills to get well enough where you will not loose your spendy CNI. Trust me CNI are very easily lost if you do not have the ability to tank it well enough so that means all shielding skills to lvl 4 if not 5. and get tech 2 cruise launcher and all related missle skills at least up to lvl 4 if not 5. before you get in your CNI. you can easily put out 400-500 DPS with a scorpion navy issue at low lvl skills.

Or if you find you do not like running a cruise missle boat and feel you want insta damage you can then start making your long haul to the Rohk. you will probably need to spend 2 months training skills with it if not a little longer before you can start doing lvl 4s. 5 months before it becomes really really good at lvl 4s.

But really the Scorpion Navy Issue is probably the best Low skill lvl 4 mission boat out there.

Be careful on mission like world's collide, Dread Pirate, blockade. They hit you hard. Worlds collide can be the worst because they scram you and once that happens you can be pretty sell screwed if you are not skilled enough to where you can tank alot.


the Scorpion does sound quite alluring and I do have some electronics and hacking skills trained
may you tell me more about how it compares with a Rokh in the long run?
as in , which one is the all rounder, what it excels at , or not as good ...etc?

▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬ஜ۩۞۩ஜ▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬ DAMN THIS    SIGNATURE    IS FANCY ▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬ஜ۩۞۩ஜ▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬

Zyress
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#33 - 2012-05-22 15:31:40 UTC
T2 Heavy Missile skills and a Tengu will see you through any lvl 4 quite well and quicker than a BS
Otrebla Utrigas
Iberians
#34 - 2012-05-22 15:32:12 UTC
Ivy Romanova wrote:
Sine DeusNomine wrote:
Okay really I would put the Rohk on the back burner. because it is more skill intensive then some missle boats. If you do not have the skills or the guns your going to be hurting in the rohk.

Scorpion Navy Issue is the best BS to use with low skills. you are going to out DPS a raven any day with it because you can fit BCU accross the bottom and shield tank the mid slots. Where on a raven you have to sacrafice the BCU's for cap rechargers.

So after you get comfortable at doing lvl 4s in your scorpion navy issue. then you can either choose to keep training your shielding skills and missle skills to get well enough where you will not loose your spendy CNI. Trust me CNI are very easily lost if you do not have the ability to tank it well enough so that means all shielding skills to lvl 4 if not 5. and get tech 2 cruise launcher and all related missle skills at least up to lvl 4 if not 5. before you get in your CNI. you can easily put out 400-500 DPS with a scorpion navy issue at low lvl skills.

Or if you find you do not like running a cruise missle boat and feel you want insta damage you can then start making your long haul to the Rohk. you will probably need to spend 2 months training skills with it if not a little longer before you can start doing lvl 4s. 5 months before it becomes really really good at lvl 4s.

But really the Scorpion Navy Issue is probably the best Low skill lvl 4 mission boat out there.

Be careful on mission like world's collide, Dread Pirate, blockade. They hit you hard. Worlds collide can be the worst because they scram you and once that happens you can be pretty sell screwed if you are not skilled enough to where you can tank alot.


the Scorpion does sound quite alluring and I do have some electronics and hacking skills trained
may you tell me more about how it compares with a Rokh in the long run?
as in , which one is the all rounder, what it excels at , or not as good ...etc?

Not the scorpion. The scorpion is an ECM boat, and can't do L4 missions better than a drake.

The Scorpion Navy Issue is a faction ship, which has bonus to shield ressistances and missile launcher RoF. You can get a Xlarge shield booster II, two amps, and a cap booster, and no matter what they throw at you, you will survive if you have enough cap charges.

As I said I have 3 mill SP (that is one month and a half life toon) and I can do any L4 mission easy except Worlds collide, in where i need another friend until i get better drone skills.

My current DPS is 362 with arbalest cruises, so it is enough for most missions.
Death Toll007
Perkone
Caldari State
#35 - 2012-05-22 16:07:26 UTC
AHM IN A ROKH!!!
LOOK AT ME AHM IN A ROKH MUTHER *******!!!!
AHM IN A MUTHA ******* ROKH!!!

Youtube it!

-DT
Dato Koppla
Rattini Tribe
Minmatar Fleet Alliance
#36 - 2012-05-22 16:24:01 UTC
Raven family is faster, reliable and easy to use but I'd suggest against it because it involves training T2 cruise to get the most out of which is for the most part a lousy skill.

Guns and gun support are way better (and have 3 related trees that share the same support skills), and in the end-game, gun boats outperform missile boats in almost every way.
Exploited Engineer
Creatively Applied Violence Inc.
#37 - 2012-05-22 17:27:56 UTC
Sarmatiko wrote:
If you plan to train missiles - Raven, and skip it for CNR or Golem


Don't. Just don't. Unless you plan to a) fly stealth bombers and b) fly other marauders.
IIshira
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#38 - 2012-05-22 17:57:03 UTC
Sine DeusNomine wrote:


Scorpion Navy Issue is the best BS to use with low skills. you are going to out DPS a raven any day with it because you can fit BCU accross the bottom and shield tank the mid slots. Where on a raven you have to sacrafice the BCU's for cap rechargers.


I thought cap rechargers were a mid slot item? I'm not on Eve at the moment so forgive me if I'm incorrect on this.

"low skills" and "battleship" shouldn't be in the same sentence. A good rule of thumb is if you can't fit T2 modules and drones you shouldn't be in a battleship. The exception would be the high slots since T2 launchers and guns take a while.

Fly the Drake till you get decent skills. If any ship in Eve is forgiving of low skills it's the Drake. You don't need to work about capacitor, heavy missiles have less signature radius issues with smaller targets than cruise missles, and it tanks like a beast!

Before I get flames this is just my opinion and advice. I'm not forcing anyone to take it. You will get different advice in Eve because everyone has different experiences and opinions.

Zyress
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#39 - 2012-05-22 18:22:36 UTC
IIshira wrote:
Sine DeusNomine wrote:


Scorpion Navy Issue is the best BS to use with low skills. you are going to out DPS a raven any day with it because you can fit BCU accross the bottom and shield tank the mid slots. Where on a raven you have to sacrafice the BCU's for cap rechargers.


I thought cap rechargers were a mid slot item? I'm not on Eve at the moment so forgive me if I'm incorrect on this.

"low skills" and "battleship" shouldn't be in the same sentence. A good rule of thumb is if you can't fit T2 modules and drones you shouldn't be in a battleship. The exception would be the high slots since T2 launchers and guns take a while.

Fly the Drake till you get decent skills. If any ship in Eve is forgiving of low skills it's the Drake. You don't need to work about capacitor, heavy missiles have less signature radius issues with smaller targets than cruise missles, and it tanks like a beast!

Before I get flames this is just my opinion and advice. I'm not forcing anyone to take it. You will get different advice in Eve because everyone has different experiences and opinions.



No need to flame I have a tengu and I still like to do lvl 4's in my drake i never have to warp out of any of them, drones take care of the frigates cheaply and the drake can kill a BS rat usually in 10 or less volleys, since mwd's started working in missions the frigates can't even catch me unless I want them to.
Zaltone
SkyDog Freight and Logistics
#40 - 2012-05-22 20:54:13 UTC
Fly what you want some times the best ships are the ones You have thought outside the box on. Its a game have fun Im my case I like slapping projectiles on everything so ill probably fit a rokh with those. lol

The Dominix is always, the answer the question doesnt matter!!!!!

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