Jita Park Speakers Corner

People producing from T2 BPOs can't compete with the quantity of people producing from BPCs.

So that's the only market T2 BPO owners can compete with people who manufacture from BPCs? Mining crystals?

Fun is crafting a positive outcomes through a sequence of critical decisions. In mining, the positive outcome is "you get ore" or "you get lotsa ore". Currently the "critical decisions" are all made before you go mining (how to fit your ship, where to mine, what to mine). During the actual mining, unless there is interference from others, there are no critical decisions (i.e. press f1, done), which is exactly why the "mining" isn't fun. Thus, to make the mining itself "fun", we need to add "critical decisions" to the mining process.

So what could these choices be? The key is to come up with activities that reward active thinking:

• Calibrating mining lasers to improve yield
• Targeted sweet spots on asteroids (nuggets of high yield ore?)
• Breaking asteroids apart in a special sequence in order to access deep veins of more valuable ore without destroying it
• Non-npc hazards to be defended against or avoided, such as dust, collisions, and radiation
• Cooperative gameplay, where two or more players must coordinate efforts to achieve an outcome

Here's a couple of possible examples embodying some of these ideas: Alice and Bob fly into an asteroid field. They both target the same asteroid and activate special scanners to analyze the rock's composition. At this point a new "Analysis" window opens for them both, similar to the Planetary Interaction view. Together, Alice and Bob use a (depth limited, resolution limited) 3D heat map of the asteroid to plan how to slice up the asteroid for maximum yield. Like cutting diamonds, each stroke of the mining lasers must be carefully placed to avoid destroying the "nuggets" of high yield ore. For this, accurate scanning skills are critical, as are precision mining laser skills. Alice is a skilled scanner and marks positions for the lasers to cut, while Bob is a surgeon with the mining laser who makes each cut with good accuracy. Together they recover 70% of the nuggets undamaged. For their time and effort, they receive what is effectively "compressed ore", meaning players skilled at this type of mining can pull in a much more valuable load with the same cargo space. If they had taken more time and been slightly more cautious with their cuts, they could have gotten an 80% yield, but, in this field, there's plenty of rocks to be had and it was more cost effective to move quickly.

Later, they encounter a tricky asteroid with pockets of explosive material within. Concerned that an accidental explosion from a stray cut might might set off a chain reaction, destroying the asteroid, they call in their friend Charlie, who specializes in using tractor beams to manipulate sections of rock. After he warps in, Charlie simply locks onto the same asteroid and activates his own special scanner. With Charlie's tractor beams directed toward the dangerous areas, they proceed with the extraction. A scanning error causes a beam to slice through an explosive section, fortunately Charlie's tractor beam aperture is large enough to encompass the explosion, redirecting the debris away from the reset of the asteroid, minimizing the damage.

In this scenario, paired tractor beams might also be able to "pull" the rocks apart as an alternative to mining lasers. While somewhat "instanced" by the use of an "Analysis Window", other parties can still participate in the mini-sandbox by bringing in their own scanners. Indeed, they could even "compete" or "grief" by making their own cuts.

The fact that you are concentrating on spreadsheets and a bunch of other things at the same time as cycling your mining lasers, because the activity is so passive that you have to dedicate minimal attention to it, isn't exactly helping your argument.

Ill leave this here:

Mining changes with anti-botting measures:

Our Corp and alliance has plenty of people that do that, for which I am grateful, as I'm sure they are for what the Industrial members do. That's the great thing with Eve that each can do what they enjoy the most without being shoehorned into having to toddle off and do the things they do want to do. I'm merely reinforcing that aspect needs to be retained in whatever we changes and updates go through.

On that I feel the new ally changes coming through will be great for the small highsec industry corps as again it supports those aspects.

Yeah I have zero issue with the mining mechanic itself, it allows for people to socialise and do other things while they mine - like build queues, invention and planning - mining shouldn't NEED to be a "busy" exercise. In fact many people like it currently BECAUSE it's not busy and they can do it and relax while they do it.

A few suggestions that I would personally find helpful:

• Show Invention Times.
• Providing information regarding Possible Invention Outcomes.
• Data Sheets: Change Their Volume.

Fly safe. o7

"Don't try to talk with the big boys by sounding like a whiney little kid."

Dude, you're not helping your case. While it could be argued that EVE was never meant to be fair, and that the possession of T2 BPOs by the 'big boys' is perfectly consistent with that, EVE does suffer from a perception that gameplay and resources are dominated by established players ('big boys'?). The reality of this perception is detrimental to new player recruitment and retention.

A reasoned argument on why T2 BPOs ought to be retained would be more enlightening.

I wish I could see it all like you do. Sadly enough I can't put my head up my arse that far.
Because if you actually would have done some research and seen the rest of my comment you already saw my arguementation.

Anyone who believes that having a T2 BPO makes you out perform a serious inventor / builder is more than just diluded.
If you really want to outperform a serious inventor/builder you need to have more than just 1 or 2 T2BPO's of the same item.

And if we are going to be serious on the subject. I sold my own T2 BPO and the oen who bought it will have some serious production and sale to do in order to cover the cost to start with.
And after that the very slim amounts of profit are going to trickle in.

A lot of T2 BPO's that are still in game have seen their owners change over time thus in most cases seen quit some investment.
As soon as you have done all the math on the subject, and that includes more then just looking at the invention costs, you might start to get a grip of how little T2 BPO's have impact on the whole T2 production process.