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If tracking disruptors are going to increase missile explosion radius, then...
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Darius Brinn
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#21 - 2012-05-20 12:22:07 UTC
Exploited Engineer wrote:


TPs are a major PITA and eat up med slots. Why should missile users have to deal with things in a horribly convoluted way when turret users can just fit passive modules (or nontargeted active modules)?

When TDs affect missiles, they'll be more effective against missile boats than they'll be against gun boats.


The disruptors also eat up slots.

Missiles don't do instant damage. Big deal. Still, they:

-Use no cap.
-Have selectable damage profiles.
-Never miss.
-Transversal becomes almost irrelevant and you always get hit for some (or much) damage.
-And, until now, they were not affected by one of the racial forms of e-war.

Everybody claims that missiles are inferior to turrets, and still, Missiles are the UNQUESTIONABLE KING OF BOTH PVE AND (more importantly) PVP. Official number of kills by CCP are UNDENIABLE.

The top PvP killer in EvE is a missile boat.

The top weapon system in PvP is the Heavy missile launcher II. For every kill done with a 425mm autocannon II, HML IIs generate 3 KMs.

And no. The Drake and the Tengu are not popular only for their insane tanks. We don't see many Rails Tengus around. And even if the Ferox got another midslot, and kept its 10% damage bonus to Hybrids vs the Drake's 5% bonus to kinetic missiles, people would still fly Drakes.
Exploited Engineer
Creatively Applied Violence Inc.
#22 - 2012-05-20 12:55:37 UTC
Darius Brinn wrote:
-Use no cap.
-Have selectable damage profiles.
-Never miss.
-Transversal becomes almost irrelevant and you always get hit for some (or much) damage.
-And, until now, they were not affected by one of the racial forms of e-war.


Projectile weapons use no cap. They have selectable damage profiles without a type-specific damage bonus, hence you won't lose 20% of your damage potential just by switching to something other than kinetic.

Hitting for next to zero damage is practially indistinguishable from missing in EVE, since there are no procs or other game mechanics that would make hitting for almost no damage worthwhile.

Transversal is irrelevant for missiles, but absolute velocity isn't. And, unlike transversal, absolute velocity of the target cannot be affected by the shooter through clever manoeuvering. Also, sig radius is extremely important for missiles, since you'll never ever hit a target for full damage if its sig radius is below the missiles explosion radius - even if the target is sitting perfectly still.

Sensor dampeners and ECM messes up missile boats just fine (you'll be stuck with lolfofs without a target lock). And missiles, unlike turrets, have defender missiles to worry about.

Quote:
The top PvP killer in EvE is a missile boat.


Because it's cheap and easy to train for.

Quote:
And no. The Drake and the Tengu are not popular only for their insane tanks. We don't see many Rails Tengus around.


If the Tengus rail subsystem wasn't a lame joke and instead somewhat similar to the Proteus' dissonic encoding platform ..
Dors Venabily
United Starbase Systems
#23 - 2012-05-21 09:24:23 UTC
Jorma Morkkis wrote:
Muad 'dib wrote:
deal with it and train for a arbitrator


Arbitrator/Pilgrim/Curse is in deep trouble when against missile or drone boat. Even Caracal can beat crap out of Curse.


You must be joking
4IN1
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#24 - 2012-05-23 04:30:34 UTC  |  Edited by: 4IN1
Anyone see a missile boat larger then a drake or tengu yet smaller then a capital doing PVP recently? Like, for the pass few years ?Roll

CCP: Ambition but rubbish
Viribus
Wilderness
IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII
#25 - 2012-05-23 06:10:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Viribus
Darius Brinn wrote:
The top PvP killer in EvE is a missile boat.


You don't think this could be because it's one of like two or three missile boats that are viable for pvp?

Nope hurr durr nerf drake that 350 dps sure is terrifying

watch me be a scurb and get owned
MisterNick
The Sagan Clan
#26 - 2012-05-23 10:17:31 UTC
4IN1 wrote:
Anyone see a missile boat larger then a drake or tengu yet smaller then a capital doing PVP recently? Like, for the pass few years ?Roll


Torp & Neut Typhoon Pirate

"Human beings make life so interesting. Do you know that in a universe so full of wonders, they have managed to invent boredom."
Logical Chaos
Very Italian People
The Initiative.
#27 - 2012-05-23 11:32:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Logical Chaos
Exploited Engineer wrote:
Drew Solaert wrote:
Ris Dnalor wrote:
Will Tracking Enhancers and Computers reduce explosion radius as a counter?



Don't you already have target painters to increase the sig size and damage?


TPs are a major PITA and eat up med slots. Why should missile users have to deal with things in a horribly convoluted way when turret users can just fit passive modules (or nontargeted active modules)?

When TDs affect missiles, they'll be more effective against missile boats than they'll be against gun boats.


what a ******** post. Get a clue please!

EDIT: Seriously, everybody claiming Missiles need the equivalents to TEs go die in a fire.
Corporate Envoy
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#28 - 2012-05-23 13:17:59 UTC
All hissy fits aside, it might be a good time to go buy some tracking disruptors. The meta 4 'Balmer' model is pretty good, and cheap at the moment.
Daniel Plain
Doomheim
#29 - 2012-05-23 13:46:34 UTC
Viribus wrote:
Darius Brinn wrote:
The top PvP killer in EvE is a missile boat.


You don't think this could be because it's one of like two or three missile boats that are viable for pvp?

Nope hurr durr nerf drake that 350 dps sure is terrifying

confirming that paper dps is the only relevant factor in PvP.

I should buy an Ishtar.
Abyssum Invocat
Yet Another Tax Haven
#30 - 2012-05-23 14:33:35 UTC
This is utterly ridiculous. Why not make projectiles susceptible to neuts while we're at it?
Riven Aleem
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#31 - 2012-05-23 15:02:52 UTC
So if you have a scenario where you TD a gunboat, but through good flying they manage to reduce or eliminate transversal, the TD is ineffective. If, on the otherhand, you TD a missile boat, and through good flying they eliminate transversal, the TD is still effective?
synlink
Federal Defense Union
Gallente Federation
#32 - 2012-05-23 16:38:30 UTC
Anyone noticed that the named/story Tracking disruptors Do not have Explosion radius bonus written in their attribute, but only the T1/t2 ?
bug ?
Razgriz Shaishi
Perkone
Caldari State
#33 - 2012-05-23 18:27:29 UTC
Lol, all the people that dont use missiles as their primary weapons system. A lot of you clearly dont understand very well the weaknesses of missiles. Why do you think you only see drakes and tengus for caldari and not much else? They are the exception, not the norm.
Jorma Morkkis
State War Academy
Caldari State
#34 - 2012-05-23 20:20:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Jorma Morkkis
Riven Aleem wrote:
So if you have a scenario where you TD a gunboat, but through good flying they manage to reduce or eliminate transversal, the TD is ineffective. If, on the otherhand, you TD a missile boat, and through good flying they eliminate transversal, the TD is still effective?


Try a blaster boat against Curse. Big smile

Razgriz Shaishi wrote:
Lol, all the people that dont use missiles as their primary weapons system. A lot of you clearly dont understand very well the weaknesses of missiles. Why do you think you only see drakes and tengus for caldari and not much else? They are the exception, not the norm.


Because diversity is a good thing to have in a game.

There's many good reasons why people fly Drakes and Tengus everywhere:
- Superior range
- Doesn't use capacitor
- Selectable damage type
- No tracking issues
- Superior against EWAR

Those combined with superior tank. There just isn't reason not to fly Drakes and Tengus.
sabre906
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#35 - 2012-05-23 20:30:54 UTC
MisterNick wrote:
4IN1 wrote:
Anyone see a missile boat larger then a drake or tengu yet smaller then a capital doing PVP recently? Like, for the pass few years ?Roll


Torp & Neut Typhoon Pirate


That is so 2000s... Nowdays, it's AC and neut Phoon.Smile
Metal Icarus
Star Frontiers
Brotherhood of Spacers
#36 - 2012-05-23 20:54:19 UTC
the TD change wouldl hit missiles harder because velocity alone can mitigate missile damage. Increase that factor using a scripted mod and suddenly you can have cruisers SPEED tanking drakes.

Not even going into missile BS and sanshas... (TD'ing NPCs)
Wenron
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#37 - 2012-05-23 22:42:41 UTC
These changes just reiterate the importance of fleet composition. Will missiles be viable? Of course. It will just require additional support.

For solo ops, you will just need to think about your engagements more than just burn away, engage missile, collect KM.

I for one like this change as it will give lesser used ships a chance to be useful.
Lili Lu
#38 - 2012-05-24 00:32:17 UTC
Riven Aleem wrote:
So if you have a scenario where you TD a gunboat, but through good flying they manage to reduce or eliminate transversal, the TD is ineffective. If, on the otherhand, you TD a missile boat, and through good flying they eliminate transversal, the TD is still effective?

Roll You appear not to understand the switching to range script.

TDs even after this change do more damage to turrets than missiles.

Still waiting to see the missile range effect that was talked about. Actually thought that would be the first iteration of the change, and doubted they would want to mess with explosions parameters. Regardless I don't think we've seen the last of the changes in store for TDs and missiles, including possible new mods to affect missile parameters as a possible counter like TCs and TEs. Would be nice if the devs were more forthcoming about what's in store with the balancing changes.
Exploited Engineer
Creatively Applied Violence Inc.
#39 - 2012-05-24 06:07:57 UTC
Metal Icarus wrote:
the TD change wouldl hit missiles harder because velocity alone can mitigate missile damage.


Even worse: Changes in the sig radius/explosion radius ratio alone can mitigate missile damage. Even if the target is sitting perfectly still.
Jorma Morkkis
State War Academy
Caldari State
#40 - 2012-05-24 08:46:42 UTC
Exploited Engineer wrote:
Even worse: Changes in the sig radius/explosion radius ratio alone can mitigate missile damage. Even if the target is sitting perfectly still.


Does damage drop to 0? Ever heard of target painting?

Could you give some numbers so we all can see how it's bad for Drake 80km.
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