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Highsec Wars are lame
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Ashera Yune
Doomheim
#1 - 2012-05-19 17:58:21 UTC
Such an easy and riskless pvp. With players using concord protected neutral alts that can't be shot, there is no skill required.

Highsec should be brimming with destruction and no cowardice.


Cynos and capital and supercapital ships should be flown in highsec and highsec pvpers will get a taste of TRUE PVP.

Then we will have 1000 man fleets fighting in systems for all to watch first hand.

As long as concord exists high pvp is not pvp, it is carebearing in a different way.

"Yesterday we obeyed kings and bent our necks before emperors. But today we kneel only to truth."

 Kahlil Gibran
Akrasjel Lanate
Immemorial Coalescence Administration
Immemorial Coalescence
#2 - 2012-05-19 18:19:24 UTC
You are in NPC corp so that is not your problem. Cool

CEO of Lanate Industries

Citizen of Solitude
Dawn Flare
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#3 - 2012-05-19 18:25:06 UTC
You know, highsec wardecs ARE lame!

Good thing we are getting a much improved wardec system in 3 days.
Tora Bushido
The Marmite Mercenaries
BLACKFLAG.
#4 - 2012-05-20 10:41:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Tora Bushido
PvP = Player versus Player

Highsec pvp is even better then nul pvp, where only numbers count and the size of ships. Its called blob warfar. Roaming in small groups, deciding where to go and how to hunt, deciding which ships with which fit can take on what other ship. Only thing I agree on, is if the targets are to easy, its not real pvp. The main reason why we like to dec bigger alliances. Nulsec are ok for fleet battles, but I wont call it pvp.

In highsec you need to think, in null you have to follow orders and blob. Personally I think wh space is the best pvp ground.

No local, no carriers moving from wh to wh, no massive blobs in most cases but small groups, no safe stations, no rules ......

DELETE THE WEAK, ADAPT OR DIE !

Meta Gaming Level VII, Psycho Warfare Level X, Smack Talk Level VII.
TJ Hanaya
Wings of Grace
#5 - 2012-05-20 11:59:05 UTC
Tora Bushido wrote:
PvP = Player versus Player

Highsec pvp is even better then nul pvp, where only numbers count and the size of ships. Its called blob warfar. Roaming in small groups, deciding where to go and how to hunt, deciding which ships with which fit can take on what other ship. Only thing I agree on, is if the targets are to easy, its not real pvp. The main reason why we like to dec bigger alliances. Nulsec are ok for fleet battles, but I wont call it pvp.

In highsec you need to think, in null you have to follow orders and blob. Personally I think wh space is the best pvp ground.

No local, no carriers moving from wh to wh, no massive blobs in most cases but small groups, no safe stations, no rules ......



-- This --
Varesk
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#6 - 2012-05-20 20:31:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Varesk
Tora Bushido wrote:
PvP = Player versus Player

Highsec pvp is even better then nul pvp, where only numbers count and the size of ships. Its called blob warfar. Roaming in small groups, deciding where to go and how to hunt, deciding which ships with which fit can take on what other ship. Only thing I agree on, is if the targets are to easy, its not real pvp. The main reason why we like to dec bigger alliances. Nulsec are ok for fleet battles, but I wont call it pvp.

In highsec you need to think, in null you have to follow orders and blob. Personally I think wh space is the best pvp ground.

No local, no carriers moving from wh to wh, no massive blobs in most cases but small groups, no safe stations, no rules ......


so taking on a blob of 288 people with 88 people, in a red system, deep in red sov with no stations to dock within 14 jumps. Not to mention the bubbles, capitals, supers or titans or enemy fleet that can be hotdropped on you at any time. I guess its not a challenge.
Maj Frost
Born with the Dead
#7 - 2012-05-20 22:50:41 UTC
From what I have read it seems the issue most people have with Hi-Sec PvP is the neutral remote reppers.
One would think CCP would understand that just making the neut become RED is not the answer to this issue.
If I am not mistaken when aggressed one has a timer which delays their docking.
Does this not apply to Nuet Remote Reppers? If not it should.
Perhaps it should be similar as to what happens when you inadvertently put a point on someone in Empire you get WTFBBQPWN'ed by Concord. (No i haven't done it but I have witnessed the results)
Make the same apply when you attempt to RR someone not in your corp or Alliance.
Whats the penalty for Nuet Remote Repping for Faction Warfare combatants in Hi-Sec?
Officer Nyota Uhura
#8 - 2012-05-20 22:57:54 UTC
Holy cow, Maj, you have a powerful portrait.
Vimsy Vortis
Shoulda Checked Local
Break-A-Wish Foundation
#9 - 2012-05-20 23:02:27 UTC
Maj Frost wrote:
From what I have read it seems the issue most people have with Hi-Sec PvP is the neutral remote reppers.
One would think CCP would understand that just making the neut become RED is not the answer to this issue.
If I am not mistaken when aggressed one has a timer which delays their docking.
Does this not apply to Nuet Remote Reppers? If not it should.
Perhaps it should be similar as to what happens when you inadvertently put a point on someone in Empire you get WTFBBQPWN'ed by Concord. (No i haven't done it but I have witnessed the results)
Make the same apply when you attempt to RR someone not in your corp or Alliance.
Whats the penalty for Nuet Remote Repping for Faction Warfare combatants in Hi-Sec?

Neutral remote reps are exactly the same as non-neutral remote reps from the second they start repping. There is no functional difference between neutral reps and in-corp reps.

The "complaint" people have about them is that the use of neutrals means that local doesn't give you perfect intel so they go and camp what they think is just 5 guys into a station and it turns out it's actually 5 guys and 2 neutral guardians and they all get killed.
Officer Nyota Uhura
#10 - 2012-05-20 23:08:26 UTC
Vimsy Vortis wrote:
The "complaint" people have about them is that the use of neutrals means that local doesn't give you perfect intel so they go and camp what they think is just 5 guys into a station and it turns out it's actually 5 guys and 2 neutral guardians and they all get killed.

No, the complaint comes from 3-man pve corps who get griefed by a 1-man corp, which, after all, turns out to field 1 cane plus 2 neutral scimis. And maybe include 2 corp-hoppers too, once you're undocked to kill that 1 guy in your pve-fitted ships. Of course you lose badly and then you qq about neutrals.
Garven Dreis
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#11 - 2012-05-21 05:08:06 UTC
Officer Nyota Uhura wrote:
Vimsy Vortis wrote:
The "complaint" people have about them is that the use of neutrals means that local doesn't give you perfect intel so they go and camp what they think is just 5 guys into a station and it turns out it's actually 5 guys and 2 neutral guardians and they all get killed.

No, the complaint comes from 3-man pve corps who get griefed by a 1-man corp, which, after all, turns out to field 1 cane plus 2 neutral scimis. And maybe include 2 corp-hoppers too, once you're undocked to kill that 1 guy in your pve-fitted ships. Of course you lose badly and then you qq about neutrals.


Pretty much this. Or when one guy will engage in ~elite pvp~ only on station and bring 5 neutral RR support, in which 2 reship into Vindicators to absolutely facemelt you.

It's just better not to engage Neutrals, which isn't really a good thing maybe. You probably shouldn't be able to RR someone and then instantly dock up and undock in your WTFBBQ ships to catch kills.

Terrible Poster Runner-up 2014
Drake Draconis
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#12 - 2012-05-21 05:40:10 UTC
Ashera Yune wrote:
Such an easy and riskless pvp. With players using concord protected neutral alts that can't be shot, there is no skill required.

Highsec should be brimming with destruction and no cowardice.


Cynos and capital and supercapital ships should be flown in highsec and highsec pvpers will get a taste of TRUE PVP.

Then we will have 1000 man fleets fighting in systems for all to watch first hand.

As long as concord exists high pvp is not pvp, it is carebearing in a different way.


Look ma its an ******** alt ####ing about alts in war-decs!!!!LolLolLolLol

================ STOP THE EVEMAIL SPAM! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=78152
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#13 - 2012-05-21 05:52:52 UTC
Tora Bushido wrote:
PvP = Player versus Player

Highsec pvp is even better then nul pvp, where only numbers count and the size of ships. Its called blob warfar. Roaming in small groups, deciding where to go and how to hunt, deciding which ships with which fit can take on what other ship. Only thing I agree on, is if the targets are to easy, its not real pvp. The main reason why we like to dec bigger alliances. Nulsec are ok for fleet battles, but I wont call it pvp.

Blob warfare is some of what happens in nullsec and it's the reason I left RAZOR the first time, but I came to understand that there's a lot more subtleties to the null game that I was missing. It's not all blob warfare and mindless point and shoot. In fact most of it isn't.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#14 - 2012-05-21 06:20:14 UTC
Ashera Yune wrote:
Such an easy and riskless pvp. With players using concord protected neutral alts that can't be shot, there is no skill required.


1) You've never fought someone using Neut RR
2) You've never fought off station
3) You wouldn't be able to win the fight even if the RR was in corp

and
4) Not this freaking thread again.

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
Tora Bushido
The Marmite Mercenaries
BLACKFLAG.
#15 - 2012-05-21 10:04:30 UTC
Varesk wrote:
Tora Bushido wrote:
PvP = Player versus Player

Highsec pvp is even better then nul pvp, where only numbers count and the size of ships. Its called blob warfar. Roaming in small groups, deciding where to go and how to hunt, deciding which ships with which fit can take on what other ship. Only thing I agree on, is if the targets are to easy, its not real pvp. The main reason why we like to dec bigger alliances. Nulsec are ok for fleet battles, but I wont call it pvp.

In highsec you need to think, in null you have to follow orders and blob. Personally I think wh space is the best pvp ground.

No local, no carriers moving from wh to wh, no massive blobs in most cases but small groups, no safe stations, no rules ......


so taking on a blob of 288 people with 88 people, in a red system, deep in red sov with no stations to dock within 14 jumps. Not to mention the bubbles, capitals, supers or titans or enemy fleet that can be hotdropped on you at any time. I guess its not a challenge.


It is a challenge for sure, but I wont call it pvp. Would call it fleet war far. A good pvp player doesn't have to be good in fleet war far. For fleet war far you need good FC's / etc. For pvp you don't. The more even and smaller the battle is, the more I would call it pvp. And I am also not saying you can't get any good pvp in nul or wherever......

DELETE THE WEAK, ADAPT OR DIE !

Meta Gaming Level VII, Psycho Warfare Level X, Smack Talk Level VII.
Misunderstood Genius
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#16 - 2012-05-21 10:18:08 UTC
Hi-Sec war will be ok once CCP has fixed the mentioned issues. As long as neutral logistics can jump and dock anytime it's a broken mechanic. Booster alts with links should become a wt at the moment they join a fleet. They are hard to catch ofc but there should be a chance to grab them at a gate or probe them down. Beside this hi-sec war will still look lame to the ones who believe in hi-sec only. Deal with it. That's EVE. And that's why EVE is special.
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#17 - 2012-05-21 10:26:45 UTC
Misunderstood Genius wrote:
Hi-Sec war will be ok once CCP has fixed the mentioned issues. As long as neutral logistics can jump and dock anytime it's a broken mechanic. Booster alts with links should become a wt at the moment they join a fleet. They are hard to catch ofc but there should be a chance to grab them at a gate or probe them down. Beside this hi-sec war will still look lame to the ones who believe in hi-sec only. Deal with it. That's EVE. And that's why EVE is special.


1) WT Logi can Jump and Dock anytime. How is the fact that you can't shoot them until they rep causing you any more issues that the presence of Logi in the first place?

2) Sweet, back to the WT fleet traps. Fun stuff. Gonna get a lot of incursionbear tears there. Besides, you will literally never catch an offgrid booster properly flown (nearly unprobably, cloaky-nano fit for gates... or shoved into a neut Orca for transport, you can't seriously call for a ban on neut hauling, can you?)

3) Deal with it. That's EvE, etc. is what you should be saying about 1 and 2.

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
Internet Lawyer Steve
Doomheim
#18 - 2012-05-21 12:18:45 UTC
Tora Bushido wrote:
Varesk wrote:
Tora Bushido wrote:
PvP = Player versus Player

Highsec pvp is even better then nul pvp, where only numbers count and the size of ships. Its called blob warfar. Roaming in small groups, deciding where to go and how to hunt, deciding which ships with which fit can take on what other ship. Only thing I agree on, is if the targets are to easy, its not real pvp. The main reason why we like to dec bigger alliances. Nulsec are ok for fleet battles, but I wont call it pvp.

In highsec you need to think, in null you have to follow orders and blob. Personally I think wh space is the best pvp ground.

No local, no carriers moving from wh to wh, no massive blobs in most cases but small groups, no safe stations, no rules ......


so taking on a blob of 288 people with 88 people, in a red system, deep in red sov with no stations to dock within 14 jumps. Not to mention the bubbles, capitals, supers or titans or enemy fleet that can be hotdropped on you at any time. I guess its not a challenge.


It is a challenge for sure, but I wont call it pvp. Would call it fleet war far. A good pvp player doesn't have to be good in fleet war far. For fleet war far you need good FC's / etc. For pvp you don't. The more even and smaller the battle is, the more I would call it pvp. And I am also not saying you can't get any good pvp in nul or wherever......



Internet Lawyer Steve on the scene...

Just wanted to point out that it is PVP. Player vs. Player. Also, please play the game for more than a 1year, 4 months and move out of high sec and experience Null, Low and WH PVP before you talk out of your ass.

Internet Lawyer Steve and Associates,

Bringing Justice to New Eden, One post at a time...
Ammzi
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#19 - 2012-05-21 13:31:22 UTC
CCP couldn't be ******* bothered to give logistics aggression timers when repping someone who is aggressing.
THAT is the problem with neutral reps. They sit on station or a gate and can flee when/if they want to.

Put timers on them and you will revolutionize highsec warfare. Blink
Vimsy Vortis
Shoulda Checked Local
Break-A-Wish Foundation
#20 - 2012-05-21 14:03:40 UTC
Sitting on a gate actually makes logistics ships very easy to deal with.
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